03-05-2024, 04:55 PM | #595 |
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03-05-2024, 06:47 PM | #596 | |
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Somehow I searched and found a PDF version of Helix Ultra (year 2014 though) 5W-40 with HTHS viscosity (it was 3.68 back then), but Shell no longer publish HTHS ...
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03-05-2024, 06:52 PM | #597 | |
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That's a really really really old formulation that is no longer in use. Since then shell has vastly improved the formulation of helix ultra 5w40, it is significantly better in every aspect, from base stock, additives, hths etc. So those older data sheets mean nothing.
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03-06-2024, 02:45 AM | #598 |
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HERE'S THE RAVENOL WHICH LOOKS REALLY GOOD,
RIGHTProperty Unit Data Audit Density at 20 °C kg/m³ 848,0 EN ISO 12185 Colour gelbbraun VISUELL Viscosity at 100 °C mm²/s 13,3 DIN 51562-1 Viscosity at 40 °C mm²/s 80,0 DIN 51562-1 Viscosity Index VI 170 DIN ISO 2909 HTHS Viscosity at 150 °C mPa*s 4,0 ASTM D5481 CCS Viscosity at -30 °C mPa*s 6375 ASTM D5293 Low Temp. Pumping viscosity (MRV) at -35 °C mPa*s 27.000 ASTM D4684 Pourpoint °C -45 DIN ISO 3016 Noack Volatility % M/M 8,8 ASTM D5800 Flashpoint °C 242 DIN EN ISO 2592 tbn mg KOH/g 8,7 ASTM D2896 |
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04-11-2024, 08:42 PM | #599 | |
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04-13-2024, 05:41 PM | #600 | |
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PPE 5W40 will be fine for use in our climate, it has a -45C pour point as well (mobile 1 0w40 isn't as low, and is rated for -42C). So you shouldn't ever run into a situation where the oil is so cold it doesn't flow anymore. So yes PPE 5W40 will be suitable for the M2C. The oil generally goes on a really good sale during black friday at Canadian tire, and that's when I usually stock up. If it isn't on sale, then walmart has really good prices year round. https://shell-livedocs.com/data/publ...2152ed87df.pdf https://www.mobil.com/en-us/passenge...bil-1-fs-0w-40
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04-14-2024, 05:04 AM | #601 | |
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04-14-2024, 02:45 PM | #602 | |
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Quick question, is ccs/mrv the baseline i.e. it passes at -35C it technically can go lower, the tests just cut off at -35? Because technically there are places in Canada where -35 doesn't cut it, my area does get below -35 (before windchill is factored in) many times per year.
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04-14-2024, 05:01 PM | #603 | |
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04-14-2024, 05:22 PM | #604 | |
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So not sure why Honda/Acura specified a 5W weight oil for the Canadian climates.
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04-14-2024, 06:28 PM | #605 | |
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http://www.pqiamerica.com/Testdescri...ldcrank25.html |
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04-14-2024, 07:00 PM | #606 | |
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So far no issues with either. So
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04-14-2024, 08:48 PM | #607 |
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Do you know why Honda has not approved 0w-20 for the 3.7L? I can't imagine it was because the didn't test the engine with it. But it's hard to imagine the engine would have failed testing with it either!
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04-14-2024, 09:24 PM | #608 | |
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Btw don't forget, Honda doesn't have any OEM certifications. They literally specify this in the owners manual: "Recommended Engine Oil Genuine Honda Motor Oil Premium-grade 0W-20 detergent oil with an API Certification Seal on the container" https://www.honda.ca/Content/ownerma...72186DA90.html Yeah, it seems Honda doesn't do very much testing aside from viscosity... So in this regard I don't really trust Honda's judgement on what oil is good to use aside from viscosity. I'd rather rely on well known and extremely rigourous tests from other OEM's + independent testing to determine what oil is good to use rather than always relying on one OE specifications alone. This should also show that overly trusting an OEM and trusting that their engineers have what's best for the engine in mind (like bmw saying FE oils are preferred when jts clear they don't protect as well as non fe oils, and are only used for emissions), isn't always a good strategy. Because by that logic there would be zero difference between me using Pennzoil platinum 0w20 in my Honda vs. super tech full synthetic Walmart no name oil that is api certified...
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04-14-2024, 09:35 PM | #609 | |
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There is also some information that pre 2011 engines should use 5w20 and post 2011 engines should use 0w20. But you can utilize 0w20 if needed for extremely cold climates. I'll check my owners manual to verify, but honestly I don't really care since it's my daily. My oil cap says 5w20 so that's what I use, and it is parked in a heated garage and never spends any meaningful time outside in the cold. So temps aren't an issue for me.
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04-15-2024, 01:14 PM | #610 | |
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04-16-2024, 11:56 PM | #611 | |
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Honda genuine oil varies alot from region to region. From what I can tell Honda uses Conoco Phillips, to idemitsu (in Japan), and even petro Canada in Canada. So I doubt they do very much testing aside from weight. In terms of testing for track use, not many Japanese manufactuerers spec or certify any type of oil for use in their cars, regardless of use type or engine type. So not being used for performance driving isn't even an excuse as to why honda doesn't spec higher grade oils. For instance the cars being branded as performance vehicles - the Honda s2000, civic type r, acura nsx, frs, brz, sti, and the list goes on. None of those cars specify anything more than api approved oil. Yeah, some manufactuers just dont care enough to do the extensive testing. It's only the European manufacturers that have stringent testing and oil requirements, and none of their extremely stringent tests pass for FE oils.
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04-17-2024, 05:52 AM | #612 | |
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Looking at the 2019 NSX owners manual, it is disappointing the lack of specificity. They seem to cover themselves with the "notice" that implies the user must use the Honda Genuine oil for guaranteed operation. The probably make that statement because it was the only oil they tested in that engine. American manufacturers have stepped up their oil speccing game recently. Ford and GM have pretty precise engine oil requirements for a lot of their special motors! The Mobil 1 Super Car oil is a pretty neat concept.
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04-17-2024, 06:13 AM | #613 | |
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Edit - I lied I found one spec sheet: http://pqiadata.org/Honda_0W20.html It looks ok, noack is over 10% and would fail European standards, additives are ok - but probably not good for lspi (it's going to be an issue on their tiny 1.5L turbo motors) since it's calcium heavy (that's what you get for not having API sn+) you can find better with pennzoil, mobil, motul etc. Yep I was wrong about the nsx. On a side note I read my Acura owners manual and it's still 5w20, nothing about using only Honda oil etc. So what American manufacturers are getting more stringent? European manufacturers have been even more stringent for decades now. It also doesn't mean that you have to run oe oils, you can run aftermarket oils with oe approvals. And guess what, like we have established over and over in this thread, those aftermarket oe certified oils are superior to oe oils.... Well at the end of the day it's up to you what oil you run, we get that your a proponent of running only OEM oils and trusting that the OE has validated it to the extremes. However as oil analysis and tests have shown time and time again, oe oil isn't the best you can always do better in the aftermarket. For instance take any of bmw's genuine oil and compare it to a top tier LL01 oil (certified by bmw) and you'll see the top tier aftermarket oils trump the genuine bmw oils easily. So why wouldn't want the additional protection? You may argue that bmw has tested their oils and ensured that wear is appropriate. Then why would LL01 even exist? Why wouldn't it be just LL01FE? There are plenty of UOA tests showing better results and less shearing with non fe oils on track anyways. So like I said before you run whatever you want, we get that you trust the OE fully, but for the rest of us capable of seeing the data showing LL01 is vastly superior to LL01FE and the top tier LL01 oils are vastly better than the genuine bmw oils. We will run those.
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04-17-2024, 07:09 AM | #614 | |
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I recently learned that the N55 and the S55 in the race cars specify LL-04. How interesting! While I don't plan on switching to LL-04, BMW has specified a thicker oil for their competitive race cars where track reliability is coveted. So who knows, maybe I'll modify my engine or get a poor UOA with the LL-01FE and move up to a full LL-01. You'll be the first to know !
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04-17-2024, 11:14 AM | #615 |
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04-17-2024, 11:19 AM | #616 |
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It is in the owner's manual for the M235iR and M2 CS Racing. I attached the M235iR manual, but cannot find my copy of the CS Racing. It was the same, though. If I find it later, I'll post it.
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