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      12-30-2018, 01:07 PM   #23
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PTF just sent me a Stg 2H map. I probably won’t get a chance to log until later this week.

If there are any sensors/data points you all think I should record beyond what’s in my first set of logs, please let me know.
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      12-30-2018, 03:39 PM   #24
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I just killed 20 minutes looking for a list of options to log...no dice. Where can I go to find this if I don't own a copy (yet)?
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      12-30-2018, 04:38 PM   #25
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Here's everything you can log, along with which sensors I've selected.
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      12-30-2018, 07:10 PM   #26
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Didn’t have time to log, but just did a quick drive with the 2H map. Feels pretty good.
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      12-31-2018, 03:34 PM   #27
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I have more questions than answers...sorry...feel free to ignore my questions. I can figure it out someday I have my own.

Why are there a bunch of "Super knocking" fields, and "IAT" fields?

What's the diff between:
- "Lambda" and "Lambda Act. (Bank 1)"
- "EGT (Modeled)" and "EGT Bank1 (Modeled)"
- "MAP" and "Manifold Abs Pressure (Measured)"

I think I'd add:
- "Normalized Ref Level Knock Control Cylinder #" for all cylinders
- "Knock Detected" (or "Knock Sensor Cyl2 Votage" and "Knock Sensor Cyl5 Voltage")
- "MAP" and/or "Manifold Abs. Pressure (Measured)"
- "STFT"

I'd be curious to see how the following acts:
- "Adapted Ref Timing Exhaust Cam #" for any one of the cylinders and if/how that impacts the modeled EGT
- "Cam (Exhaust) Valve Close (WOT)"
- "Cam (Intake) Valve Close (WOT)"
- "Load Act (Rel.)"
- "Temperature radiator outlet sensor" (in order to compare with "Coolant Temp" to get data points regarding radiator effectiveness (assuming the "Coolant Temp" is pre-radiator)
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      01-02-2019, 04:38 AM   #28
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Here's my first set of logs on the new Stg 2H map, with pulls into 4th.

http://www.bootmod3.net/log?id=5c2c9014ae729b51747a4b72

I tried adding the other sensors, but one or more of them errored out (not sure which) and wouldn't log, so I stuck with my original choices and a few extra.

I could definitely feel the IATs going up in the latter runs--40F rise after the 5th pull. Bleh.

Please let me know what you guys think!

Last edited by ZM2; 01-02-2019 at 05:52 AM..
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      01-02-2019, 06:31 AM   #29
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PTF has already uploaded a Stg 2H V2 map for me to try. Talk about customer service!
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      01-02-2019, 08:39 PM   #30
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Man, these logs are really showing off your powerful brake...jk Seriously, the temp had already gone stable by first 1/3~1/2 of runs, you don't have to do that many pulls

As said earlier, you're golden under 90F of IAT. Above that more octane is required.

Fueling can do 0.5~1psi more at 5k+, but that would be too close to the edge (No mention octane don't support either). Not recommended.

Next time you log, 1) add fuel trim channel and 2) Try pull all the way to redline@4th (1k5~7k@3rd, shift into 5k@4th and to 7k@4th), that's where IAT can climb to 100F or more in your case.

Let's see how V2 works for you. I have a feeling you need high flow downpipe anyway.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ZM2 View Post
Here's my first set of logs on the new Stg 2H map, with pulls into 4th.

http://www.bootmod3.net/log?id=5c2c9014ae729b51747a4b72

I tried adding the other sensors, but one or more of them errored out (not sure which) and wouldn't log, so I stuck with my original choices and a few extra.

I could definitely feel the IATs going up in the latter runs--40F rise after the 5th pull. Bleh.

Please let me know what you guys think!
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      01-02-2019, 08:56 PM   #31
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Yeah, once I saw the logs, I realized half as many pulls would do. I got close to 7k in 4th on several pulls, but I’ll try to go redline each time.

IAT hit 100F while ambient was 40F, so I don’t see that working during on a hot summer track day.

By fuel trim, you mean STFT, correct?
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      01-02-2019, 09:23 PM   #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ZM2 View Post
Yeah, once I saw the logs, I realized half as many pulls would do. I got close to 7k in 4th on several pulls, but I’ll try to go redline each time.

IAT hit 100F while ambient was 40F, so I don’t see that working during on a hot summer track day.

By fuel trim, you mean STFT, correct?
Yes, STFT.

With upgraded IC, 60F above ambient is a bit too much. 40+F delta is normal under heavy use. Speaking of heavy use, the way you stress IC is more than any log I saw. So there is that.
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      01-02-2019, 09:40 PM   #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SeanWRT View Post
Yes, STFT.

With upgraded IC, 60F above ambient is a bit too much. 40+F delta is normal under heavy use. Speaking of heavy use, the way you stress IC is more than any log I saw. So there is that.
Yeah, since it was so cool out I wanted to give it some heck to see what IATs would do. It’s clear the IC and/or downpipe need to change.

Regarding the HPFP, what PSI drop do you consider it “crashing”? I’m seeing it drop down to 2000psi while under load.

Thanks.
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      01-02-2019, 09:55 PM   #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ZM2 View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by SeanWRT View Post
Yes, STFT.

With upgraded IC, 60F above ambient is a bit too much. 40+F delta is normal under heavy use. Speaking of heavy use, the way you stress IC is more than any log I saw. So there is that.
Yeah, since it was so cool out I wanted to give it some heck to see what IATs would do. It's clear the IC and/or downpipe need to change.

Regarding the HPFP, what PSI drop do you consider it "crashing"? I'm seeing it drop down to 2000psi while under load.

Thanks.
JB4 days we think FPH=12 (12*150=1800psi) is where you should be alarmed. With flash tune it's a little more complicated as it controls afr and trim to a much greater extent, and it's also dependent of your fueling target. Personally I'm not comfortable seeing any drop by more than 300psi. DME will at some point back off load when seeing a certain delta but it's more than one dimensional. It's the coolest days of year so you're good as is and have maybe a tad more on the table.
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      01-02-2019, 10:16 PM   #35
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BTW, that's why I see the need for HPFP upgrade with stock turbo as the inferior tuning. Funny people...

Even my GP500 hardly need that, on pump gas. I would love to burn another 2k and proposed to give bigger pump a try, Halim advised against it unless I'm going for E30 which I will never.
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      01-02-2019, 10:45 PM   #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SeanWRT View Post
BTW, that's why I see the need for HPFP upgrade with stock turbo as the inferior tuning. Funny people...

Even my GP500 hardly need that, on pump gas. I would love to burn another 2k and proposed to give bigger pump a try, Halim advised against it unless I'm going for E30 which I will never.
I wondered if you were going to chime in on the fueling conversation in the Turbo thread that’s going right now. I’m not an expert, but I’ve now learned the tune dictates fueling needs.

I’m staying away from octane booster and ethanol, as well. All I’ll ever do is add a half tank of 100 octane on a hot summer track day, if needed.
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      01-03-2019, 12:20 AM   #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ZM2 View Post
I wondered if you were going to chime in on the fueling conversation in the Turbo thread that's going right now. I'm not an expert, but I've now learned the tune dictates fueling needs.

I'm staying away from octane booster and ethanol, as well. All I'll ever do is add a half tank of 100 octane on a hot summer track day, if needed.
I stay away from that conversion over there.

Fueling is or will be a restriction somewhere. But octane is definitely earlier with pump gas should you tune right. With ethanol, methanol and paired with port injection, in no way would they admit fueling upgrade is unnecessary (I would not either in their case).

Really we're talking different stages (or boost levels). Their mindset is 20~25psi with stage2 hybrid, mine is 18+ max. They tend to spin turbo out of efficiency (that not sure they're aware of) to show good number and pull glorious runs. Their way is not to stop adding boost until seeing no power gains. While I prefer factory power delivery and track proven consistency on VERY HOT days. Very different tuning philosophies. One thing for sure, I won't benefit from fueling upgrade without access to higher octane.
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Last edited by SeanWRT; 01-03-2019 at 12:58 AM..
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      01-03-2019, 03:24 PM   #38
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Your HPFP is definitely keeping up to the target - that's good! I appreciate SeanWRT information about HPFP limits!

There appears to be a consistent .5 count of knock upon initial 100% Accel Pedal. Perhaps that's just noise and or normal (I have experienced/heard this phenomenon for other cars).

I am just realizing with this log that you have DCT - that or you like NLTS. :-) Is it normal to lose about 1psi during the shift? Perhaps the reduction in psi is due to a reduction in timing during the shift.

Thanks again for sharing your logs! Keep us updated!
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      01-03-2019, 03:49 PM   #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by M2guru View Post
Your HPFP is definitely keeping up to the target - that's good! I appreciate SeanWRT information about HPFP limits!

There appears to be a consistent .5 count of knock upon initial 100% Accel Pedal. Perhaps that's just noise and or normal (I have experienced/heard this phenomenon for other cars).

I am just realizing with this log that you have DCT - that or you like NLTS. :-) Is it normal to lose about 1psi during the shift? Perhaps the reduction in psi is due to a reduction in timing during the shift.

Thanks again for sharing your logs! Keep us updated!
NLTS all the way! Hah, jk. She’s DCT. I used to NLTS my RX-7 all the time, tho. It was fun watching the person’s face behind me light up when the unburnt fuel in the exhaust would shoot out as a flame!

I think the psi drop is just due to the tune? I think PTF targets higher boost at higher revs. I could be wrong, tho.

I’ll try to get the next set of logs this week/weekend!
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      01-06-2019, 06:34 PM   #40
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Hey guys, here are some logs of the Stg 2H V2 map with 93 octane. Let me know what you think!

http://www.bootmod3.net/log?id=5c329ccac090c6317f28a8dc

A few things I'm seeing:

-IAT's continue to increase 20F from the beginning to the end of each pull, 40F delta from low & high temps throughout all the pulls, and actual IAT gets up 60F above ambient. Not sure which would help more: a different IC, or a high flow downpipe?
-HPFP dropped to 1950-psi at one point. Mostly stays 2200-2500-psi, tho.
-A few more little knock blips
-Lambda is hanging out b/n 11.9-12.9 in the upper revs
-I have no idea what the timing or STFT data are telling me

Thanks.

Last edited by ZM2; 01-06-2019 at 08:13 PM..
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      01-08-2019, 02:05 AM   #41
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Once again, octane is not enough when IAT approach 90F. You either cool it down a little bit via upgrading to better IC, or make ignition easier by reducing backpressure (downpipe).

HPFP is holding up brilliantly. You saw it once from 4th pull where it dips to below 2k, only because DME is dumping fuel at that point trying to save the falling ignition. That is ultimately an octane issue 100%. Even that, power is not being backed off.

PTF put a boost ceiling for you which is useful. It effectively prevents boost target from going too high when DME trying to compensate for high IAT.

Your case is the epitome of what's going on with N55 tuning. Most people get to see the bright side (perfect log on high octane and low IAT) and are happy seeing good dyno numbers out of the ideal conditions. BTW, I'm absolutely sure you'll see 400whp+ as is on dynojet. They neglect the fact that their car WILL fail when ambient condition gets worse, or frankly speaking, just less ideal (this can be even said to S55 engine). They put in race gas, ethanol, methanol, whatever makes octane look like a none issue (because they're cheap and easy to fix). And blame the hpfp and the turbo.

Save your time. It looks to me you're doing IC and DP no matter what. Then good, log again with them installed, and probably with better pump gas that you have access to.

At the end of day, the V2 map is already good enough for your current setup. 99% acceptable to the standard of most of people.

BTW, you're the only person boosting 17+psi up top with N55 stock downpipe that I know of from all these years. Insane, if I was told of that before M2 came out.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ZM2 View Post
Hey guys, here are some logs of the Stg 2H V2 map with 93 octane. Let me know what you think!

http://www.bootmod3.net/log?id=5c329ccac090c6317f28a8dc

A few things I'm seeing:

-IAT's continue to increase 20F from the beginning to the end of each pull, 40F delta from low & high temps throughout all the pulls, and actual IAT gets up 60F above ambient. Not sure which would help more: a different IC, or a high flow downpipe?
-HPFP dropped to 1950-psi at one point. Mostly stays 2200-2500-psi, tho.
-A few more little knock blips
-Lambda is hanging out b/n 11.9-12.9 in the upper revs
-I have no idea what the timing or STFT data are telling me

Thanks.
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      01-08-2019, 07:30 AM   #42
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Thanks SeanWRT

Yeah, 300 cell DP, different IC, and probably a larger aux radiator will happen (already have the CSF radiator & oil cooler), along with BM3 tweaking, just to max the car out while being consistent on hot summer track days. And, I’ll run 100 octane gas at the track just to give me some headroom.

I’m seeing 460hp & 420 ft lbs on the BMW Sport Dial in the upper RPMs, for whatever that imperfect measurement is worth. Sad thing is my buddy just flashed his S55 with Stg 1 91 and hits 500hp/440tq on his BMW dials just with the OTS map. Oh well, I can’t bring myself to buy a car that sounds like the S55. Will wait for the S58 or whatever is next.

As for the Stg 2H 93 V2 map, it’s funny bc to me the car didn’t feel quite as smooth during the pulls, but I just sent over the logs to PTF for review without my input. They immediately responded and said: “I feel like previous map was way cleaner than this. Do you feel any difference in power? This one drops a lot of timing as it heats up.”

And I said, “as a matter of fact...”

So, PTF said they are going to clean up the timing a bit so it doesn’t pull any before IATs hit 95F, and then I’ll get some more logs. I’m maxed out on pump gas (am running 93 Shell) unless I start visiting the E85 station close by.

Thanks for your feedback!

Last edited by ZM2; 01-08-2019 at 09:04 AM..
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      01-09-2019, 10:16 AM   #43
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Hey guys.

So, after some back and forth with PTF, we’re going to stick with the V1 map. The power is there and it’s very, very smooth. It might even become an OTS map that everyone could use, but I’ll leave that up to PTF.

Once I change the DP and IC, we may push the envelope further.

So far, it’s been great working with PTF and getting you all’s feedback. Thanks again!
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      01-09-2019, 10:33 AM   #44
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Thanks for sharing your journey....and thanks to all your contributors. Good info here.
I’m sure you’re anxious to get it to the track..to check out the add power. Nicely prepped track day M2 you’ve got there.

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