[M3M2R8Racer]

Originally Posted by ZM2

Definitely true on hot days. My power delivery is much more consistent thru a session with the Dinan IC installed, and the car pulls harder to redline.

I experienced the same on these Hot Texas Track days. Power is noticeable less in the afternoon versus the 1st cool morning runs! I have decided not to run in 90+ degF days in Houston!

[ZM2]

Originally Posted by M3M2R8Racer

I have decided not to run in 90+ degF days in Houston!

Which is like...never? I assume you already have the Dinan IC with your stage 4 upgrades?

[TT1351]

FWIW, I was at Thermal yesterday and the M Performance Driving School. Temperature in the high 90's, three groups consisting of 5, 5 and 6 drivers, alternating between M3's, M4's and M2's. We literally beat the snot out of these cars all day long. Last event of the day was two timed laps around what they call the long auto cross course with a third so called cool down lap. During the day I felt the cars including the M2's stayed consistent in all areas, including power and braking. Going back today for the last day, should be cooler. I quess what I'm saying is, I was pretty impressed by the stamina of these cars, especially being driven at 90 to 100% by multiple drivers in the heat pretty much all day long. I doubt your own car would see so much action in one day. In closing I didn't see any evidence of power loss due to heat soak.

[ZM2]

Originally Posted by TT1351

FWIW, I was at Thermal yesterday and the M Performance Driving School. Temperature in the high 90's, three groups consisting of 5, 5 and 6 drivers, alternating between M3's, M4's and M2's. We literally beat the snot out of these cars all day long. Last event of the day was two timed laps around what they call the long auto cross course with a third so called cool down lap. During the day I felt the cars including the M2's stayed consistent in all areas, including power and braking. Going back today for the last day, should be cooler. I quess what I'm saying is, I was pretty impressed by the stamina of these cars, especially being driven at 90 to 100% by multiple drivers in the heat pretty much all day long. I doubt your own car would see so much action in one day. In closing I didn't see any evidence of power loss due to heat soak.

I’ve done several days at the PDCs and can say any long track session is harder on the cars. Going non-stop for 30min on a track puts more wear and heat into the engine and brakes than the PDC classes, and they design the classes so the cars don’t get hot. It’s why they relegate the M2 mostly to AutoX, much easier on the car bc the speeds aren’t nearly as high as a race track.

[M3 Adjuster]

Originally Posted by M3M2R8Racer

I experienced the same on these Hot Texas Track days. **Power is noticeable less in the afternoon versus the 1st cool morning runs! **
I have decided not to run in 90+ degF days in Houston!

Are you referring to you or the car?

[TampaF87]

Curious, whats the problem with the stock oil cooler? I haven't taken a look at it yet, but that's crazy that oil temps are that bad even if the oil cooler isn't particularly efficient. Where are these aftermarket oil coolers making their efficiency gains, is it the surface area increase by going double-layered? That's not that much of a surface area increase by looking at the pictures. As I understand it, that's where most of the benefit comes from aftermarket IC's on this platform when looking at a system that utilizes a dual-core setup like this and Dinan.

[ZM2]

Originally Posted by TampaF87

Curious, whats the problem with the stock oil cooler? I haven't taken a look at it yet, but that's crazy that oil temps are that bad even if the oil cooler isn't particularly efficient. Where are these aftermarket oil coolers making their efficiency gains, is it the surface area increase by going double-layered? That's not that much of a surface area increase by looking at the pictures. As I understand it, that's where most of the benefit comes from aftermarket IC's on this platform when looking at a system that utilizes a dual-core setup like this and Dinan.

My experience is a stock car does not need additional cooling on track.

As soon as you start adding boost, a larger IC is needed to keep the car from getting hot and pulling timing. With the Dinan IC and Stage 1, I’ve only seen the temp gauge move up and felt timing pulled on a 105F open track day doing 30-45 min runs with 15-30min breaks.

I wasn’t logging water and oil temps then, so I do not know if the radiator or oil cooler would give the most benefit after the upgraded IC. I’ve heard the former. I’ll log temps the next time I’m out.

So, if your car is stock and you’re only doing 20-30min sessions, no cooling upgrade needed, IMO. If you add a little boost and/or are doing open track events, you need a larger IC. If you add a lot of boost or are going non-stop, likely a larger radiator, then oil cooler.

[CSBM5]

Originally Posted by paradoxical3

Very occasionally. But if you log your coolant temps you and boost/throttle position you will see the ECU closing the throttle electronically and pulling timing as temps rise, and this is repeatable in moderate temperatures. I couldn't hit 140mph down the back straight after the first lap at mid ohio before these cooling upgrades and now I'm comfortably sitting at 143mph through an entire 60minute session with Chin.

Great post here by paradoxical3: http://f87.bimmerpost.com/forums/sho...8&postcount=45

[pruettfan]

I live in AZ so we have the extreme heat most don't. When I drive my car hard on 110-115 degree days I don't get the same pep as when its cool outside or the car is cool. Noticed it quite a bit on one of the hotter days last summer. I am getting ready to track the car so I have picked up the CSF intercooler to do that upgrade, from what I understand it should resolve this issue pretty well.

[CSBM5]

Originally Posted by pruettfan

I live in AZ so we have the extreme heat most don't. When I drive my car hard on 110-115 degree days I don't get the same pep as when its cool outside or the car is cool. Noticed it quite a bit on one of the hotter days last summer. I am getting ready to track the car so I have picked up the CSF intercooler to do that upgrade, from what I understand it should resolve this issue pretty well.

As the datalogging paradoxical3 showed in the link above, it's the coolant temperature that is first evaluated by the DME to start taking protective measures. I would definitely install the CSF radiator and oil cooler first. The last item to worry about would be the intercooler.

[pruettfan]

Originally Posted by ZM2

I’ve done several days at the PDCs and can say any long track session is harder on the cars. Going non-stop for 30min on a track puts more wear and heat into the engine and brakes than the PDC classes, and they design the classes so the cars don’t get hot. It’s why they relegate the M2 mostly to AutoX, much easier on the car bc the speeds aren’t nearly as high as a race track.

Spoke the three instructors including the lead about this and they said the M2 isn't used on the high speed track because of brakes. They use carbon brakes on the M3/4 because they hold up to prolonged high speed braking whereas the M2's standard brakes will of course fade. I don't buy for a second that driving at lower speeds on the autocross course results in lower heats because at the school your running lap after lap and the car never gets shut down. We did have one M2 go into limp mode when we were doing our autocross during the advanced M school, not sure what the story was but the car was back in action after a few minutes of time out. BTW they said they use the M3/4s for about one year and each car gets between 5-7k of track miles. That is apparently the limit of the carbon brakes under those conditions because they warned us to monitor our brakes during our high speed work because the brakes were at the end of their life and apparently the carbon brakes don't give much warning before the rotor fails.

[pruettfan]

Originally Posted by CSBM5

As the datalogging paradoxical3 showed in the link above, it's the coolant temperature that is first evaluated by the DME to start taking protective measures. I would definitely install the CSF radiator and oil cooler first. The last item to worry about would be the intercooler.

Thanks for pointing that link out, I wonder if I should just leave my car stock and forgo a tune so I don't create an issue. Not sure I want to go all out with a new cooling system for the amount of track time I will do, I won't be tracking in the middle of summer here because it's too damn hot.

[Pyrat 2]

Originally Posted by blefevre

I never noticed an issue at the 100 degree day I did. Granted, I'm not monitoring temperatures of everything, but the car sure didn't care and the very limited temp gauge we do have didn't budge. Sure, you will likely have more consistent power with upgraded cooling I wouldn't equate that to being required upgrades just to do a hot track day.

Agree. I've yet to feel any sort of heat soak issues with my M2. I'm not saying that there isn't any. Simply saying that I haven't felt any loss of power under heavy track use.

[MINI135i]

I run a stock engine, with just wheels/tires, track pads and track brake fluid.

There is no doubt in my opinion that the M2 in stock form gets heat soak in high ambient temps. I have some comparable naturally aspirated cars that run with me that I can pull on the straight in 60-70 temps, but when the 90+ degree temps arrive I cannot beat them down the straight anymore. Additionally, my lap times suffer also.

That said, the car feels great in either situation, it is not like there are any issues, it just gets a little slower. Every stock turbo car I have ever driven does this. The M2 actually fairs much better than most, but it still heat soaks. The the glass half full part is, it will keep chugging along just as reliable as ever no matter what ambient temp.

I have run S54's N54's, N55's and S65's over the years and these N55's, although older tech now, are solid engines in stock form, especially the M2 version. My S65 grenaded in stock form due to the rod bearings (thank goodness for warranty), so I appreciate the reliability of the N55 for sure, even with a little heat soak.

I applaud the beautiful options from CSF for those who want to maximize their car for super hard track work and extra hot days. So it kind of comes down to personal preference instead of an absolute necessity, and I like that.

[imolam3]

Originally Posted by pruettfan

Thanks for pointing that link out, I wonder if I should just leave my car stock and forgo a tune so I don't create an issue. Not sure I want to go all out with a new cooling system for the amount of track time I will do, I won't be tracking in the middle of summer here because it's too damn hot.

We have the same problem here in TX from June-Oct. Should look into a Coolshirt set up. I have one for both the kart/car and it helped a lot. Used it with the balaclava kit and stay cool.

https://coolshirt.com/product/kart-bag-system/

https://apexperformance.net/product/...ooling-system/