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      06-10-2017, 01:08 AM   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FSociety View Post
Don't quote me on that, but will find out soon when they finish testing and dyno.

But for sure is, M2 Turbo is different than M235/EWG Turbo; thats why Pure STG2 is unique for the M2 upgrade versus the standard EWG N55 PS2 is.
Let's wait and see when someone Really Dyno's their Dinan STG4
To be frank I'm very skeptical. Below are why:

1) As I remember, two forum members already posted their dyno results (380whp) of dinan turbo kit. Coupled with hi flo dp and turbo inlet, dinan kit seems to net 50whp or so on top of stock m2, something that I don't think is achievable with stock turbo and similar bolt-ons on piggyback especially the conservative Dinan.

2) Not offering a stg1 turbo for m2, Pure could have gone public that m2 turbo is a PS1 equivalence if that's what they found out true. It works perfectly in their favor and against Dinan, the only turbo competitor in the m2 market.

3) From our numerous tests and JB4 data logs on multiple m2s and 35is, EWG PS1 turbo flows better than m2. With adequate cooling (not necessarily with meth), PS1 holds 16psi at 7k rpm on pump gas easily, where m2 sees 14-15psi at best, provided piggyback is properly configured.

In full disclosure, we saw boost held slightly better with m2 than other stock n55 EWG turbos. That's because, to our limited knowledge, m2 DME with higher load targets out of factory acts as a BEF so the system works with closer values to stock and thus is better at controlling variables.
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      06-13-2017, 10:55 PM   #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SeanWRT View Post
To be frank I'm very skeptical. Below are why:

1) As I remember, two forum members already posted their dyno results (380whp) of dinan turbo kit. Coupled with hi flo dp and turbo inlet, dinan kit seems to net 50whp or so on top of stock m2, something that I don't think is achievable with stock turbo and similar bolt-ons on piggyback especially the conservative Dinan.

2) Not offering a stg1 turbo for m2, Pure could have gone public that m2 turbo is a PS1 equivalence if that's what they found out true. It works perfectly in their favor and against Dinan, the only turbo competitor in the m2 market.

3) From our numerous tests and JB4 data logs on multiple m2s and 35is, EWG PS1 turbo flows better than m2. With adequate cooling (not necessarily with meth), PS1 holds 16psi at 7k rpm on pump gas easily, where m2 sees 14-15psi at best, provided piggyback is properly configured.

In full disclosure, we saw boost held slightly better with m2 than other stock n55 EWG turbos. That's because, to our limited knowledge, m2 DME with higher load targets out of factory acts as a BEF so the system works with closer values to stock and thus is better at controlling variables.
1) I've seen FBO stock turbo M2 make 375whp/430wtq personally on Flash conservative 15-16psi, I'm sure if they did Inlet would see some more flow. And there's also 420whp stock turbo 16.5psi via E50 PI on Flash as well.

2) True, You're right

3) I've seen personally M2 holding 16-18psi at redline but that doens't mean its good nor that is making more power either.
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      06-15-2017, 10:09 AM   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DrKevM5 View Post
However, my Dinan Stage 4 should be finished and dynoed tomorrow. I'll post it up.
How'd you make out?
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      06-18-2017, 07:20 AM   #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DrKevM5
Quote:
Originally Posted by FSociety View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by DrKevM5 View Post
Dinan Stage 1, Fabspeed 200cel, Eventuri
What did you put down with Dinan stg1 disabled ?
Never got that one. However, my Dinan Stage 4 should be finished and dynoed tomorrow. I'll post it up.
This?
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      06-18-2017, 08:51 AM   #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by velociti View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by M2GB View Post
Here in the UK we have proper fuel (98 RON)

With a DP and Intercooler and air filter, cars are dyno tested at 410hp roughly (no tunes)

Base cars were tested at the same time and were running 370hp
At the crank, right, not at the wheels?
That's at the crank.

DP gets about 10-20 HP depending on the model.

DP, FMIC and air filter with 98ron gives just over 400-410HP or 335-345 WHP.

The IC made the biggest gain. It would appear the down fall of this engine in the M2 is heat. IC allow you to hold timing for much longer.

I've seen a car with the above mods + MPE and hard induction/turbo hoses make 430ish HP, a little over 350WHP

Only way to get 400 WHP will be with a hybrid turbo and ecu remap.
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      06-18-2017, 02:44 PM   #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CommitConfirm View Post

The IC made the biggest gain. It would appear the down fall of this engine in the M2 is heat. IC allow you to hold timing for much longer.

Only way to get 400 WHP will be with a ecu remap + FBO part and some higher octane. Also upgrading turbo will be happiest with a BM3 Bef.
Edited for you
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      06-18-2017, 06:39 PM   #29
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Why? I said what I wanted to say.
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      06-19-2017, 11:46 AM   #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ninjaneer34 View Post
I'm starting a thread to find the best mods to achieve conservative 400WHP for my 17 M2. I want to get top end gains. Please post your cars mods with the cost next to each, the dyno charts, and the dyno you used. If you have had any problems with CEL, limp mode, or boost lag, then please state the issue, (if you resolved the issue, how?).

This is absolutely achievable with the stock turbo, but not necessarily
a guarantee since it really does put you very close to the limits of the
stock turbo (rotational speed and efficiency) as well as the limitations
of the stock fueling system.

Depending on the dyno you can manipulate the settings and correction
factor to show a 400whp run, but what you really want to see is a delta
proving an increase of approximately 70-80 WHP w/ just bolt-on's and
a tune.

For reference, here is a our HEX Tuning Stage TWO with just downpipes.

Software Level: HEX Tuning Stage TWO
Additional Mods: ER Downpipes / Stock Cat-Back
Fuel Level: 91 Octane


Add a cat-back, turbo inlet pipe, and an inter-cooler; and you're as
optimal as you're going to get.

Keep in mind that chasing a number, or forcing the car to make more
power that it really wants to make
, is a recipe for inconsistent power
delivery, or worse. It's more about finding the right equilibrium for your
own intended use, than it is about just putting down a large number on
an ambiguous single-run dyno plot.


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      06-19-2017, 12:02 PM   #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by VF-Engineering View Post

This is absolutely achievable with the stock turbo, but not necessarily
a guarantee since it really does put you very close to the limits of the
stock turbo (rotational speed and efficiency) as well as the limitations
of the stock fueling system.

Depending on the dyno you can manipulate the settings and correction
factor to show a 400whp run, but what you really want to see is a delta
proving an increase of approximately 70-80 WHP w/ just bolt-on's and
a tune.

For reference, here is a our HEX Tuning Stage TWO with just downpipes.

Software Level: HEX Tuning Stage TWO
Additional Mods: ER Downpipes / Stock Cat-Back
Fuel Level: 91 Octane


Add a cat-back, turbo inlet pipe, and an inter-cooler; and you're as
optimal as you're going to get.

Keep in mind that chasing a number, or forcing the car to make more
power that it really wants to make
, is a recipe for inconsistent power
delivery, or worse. It's more about finding the right equilibrium for your
own intended use, than it is about just putting down a large number on
an ambiguous single-run dyno plot.


Respectable gains btw! Do you have this Dyno in SAE or STD please ?

Thanks
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      06-19-2017, 12:52 PM   #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FSociety View Post
Respectable gains btw! Do you have this Dyno in SAE or STD please ?

Thanks

We do, but since we are focusing on delta (change between stock/tuned runs)
Uncorrected is the most appropriate way of demonstrating the gains.



In a perfect world we'd be able to post plots without peak numbers and
encourage customer to focus just on the delta and AUC (area under the curve)!

Unfortunately the marketing aspect of posting numbers focuses more on peak
numbers than peak/max gains, hence the reason that the OP has a target goal
of 400whp. You'll never be able to do that on a Mustang Dyno, which is why it's
a bit misleading or confusing to focus on a sole number based result.



I'll see if I can post the same plot with correction factors applied at some point
this week just for the sake of it. For anyone interested in reading more about
our thoughts on how to properly examine dyno plots and determine gains;
feel free to visit our '♒ TWO Dynos - HEX Tuning ♒' thread. (click link to jump)

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      06-19-2017, 01:31 PM   #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FSociety View Post
Respectable gains btw! Do you have this Dyno in SAE or STD please ?

Thanks
Subscribed to see Non-Uncorrected M2 plots as well!
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      06-19-2017, 06:52 PM   #34
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There are multiple schools of thoughts on whether correction factors for dyno
plots are necessary for vehicles with modern ECU's which already adapt/correct
for ambient temperatures, barometric pressure, and humidity.

In our experience, it is absolutely unnecessary AS LONG AS you dyno the same
vehicle, on the same dyno, on the same day, with the same tank of fuel.

The only time we will post a "Before and After" dyno plot is when all of these
factors are in check. Therefor the Uncorrected results are the most appropriate
for determining actual gains, as those numbers are exactly what the machine is
measuring "before and after" the installation of our software, with absolutely no
other outside influence.

  • On a cool day in our shop (under 77°f), Uncorrected numbers will read higher than Corrected.
  • On a warm day in our shop (over 77°f), Uncorrected numbers will read lower than Corrected.
  • The only constant is that STD correction will ALWAYS be higher (by approx. 3%) than SAE corrected.

As you can see from all of the dyno plots below, the largest change in peak gains
is 6.38 WHP and 7.73 WTQ (from Uncorrected to SAE); which is equal to less than 1.7%.








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      06-21-2017, 03:50 PM   #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CommitConfirm View Post
That's at the crank.

DP gets about 10-20 HP depending on the model.

DP, FMIC and air filter with 98ron gives just over 400-410HP or 335-345 WHP.

The IC made the biggest gain. It would appear the down fall of this engine in the M2 is heat. IC allow you to hold timing for much longer.

I've seen a car with the above mods + MPE and hard induction/turbo hoses make 430ish HP, a little over 350WHP

Only way to get 400 WHP will be with a hybrid turbo and ecu remap.
Not following this. The M2 makes 335 whp completely stock on 98ron.
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      06-21-2017, 04:18 PM   #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zenmaster View Post
Not following this. The M2 makes 335 whp completely stock on 98ron.

It's not possible to make a blanket statement like that.
Different dynamometers produce different results; Every vehicle will
vary slightly depending on the mileage/break-in/fuel quality; Even the
same car, on the same day/dyno, can vary from session to session.

Of the last 1/2 dozen M2's we've had on our in-house DynoJet we have
seen anywhere from 320-335whp in stock form. If we put that exact car,
on the same day, with the same fuel on our in-house Mustang dyno, the
same car that just produced 330 WHP will only produce 287 WHP.
"Reference Post" (click link to jump)

This is why the conversation needs to revolve around the delta, and not
fixate on a target peak number.


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      06-21-2017, 05:15 PM   #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by VF-Engineering View Post
[COLOR="Blue"][INDENT]
It's not possible to make a blanket statement like that.
Different dynamometers produce different results; Every vehicle will
vary slightly depending on the mileage/break-in/fuel quality; Even the
same car, on the same day/dyno, can vary from session to session.
Just going by the 93oct M2 Dynojet numbers from 3 different locations, cars and weather. I can provide links to all which exist in this forum. They have been VERY consistent which may be a huge coincidence

Here you go:

http://f87.bimmerpost.com/forums/sho....php?t=1253319
IND
336whp and 371wtq on 93

http://f87.bimmerpost.com/forums/sho....php?t=1270926
Fabspeed
332whp and 378wtq on 93 (presumably)

http://f87.bimmerpost.com/forums/sho....php?t=1367346
VF Engineering
329whp and 362wtq on 91

http://f87.bimmerpost.com/forums/sho....php?t=1253475
Burger
330whp and 368wtq on 91

Last edited by zenmaster; 06-25-2017 at 01:47 PM..
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      06-21-2017, 06:39 PM   #38
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So I have just been reading mostly and not chipped in just trying to learn as much as I can.

I dyno's the car on a 90+ degree day in Florida. Mods at that moment were the Fabspeed Sport Cat Downpipe and the Bypass exhaust. I have changed up that setup since then. But my numbers on the Dynojet were 358whp and 407tq. Next mod will be an intercooler upgrade and will dyno with my new exhaust setup which replaced the Fabspeed Bypass with the Resonator Delete and Free Flow Exhaust from DINAN.

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      06-21-2017, 08:15 PM   #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EL BAN View Post
So I have just been reading mostly and not chipped in just trying to learn as much as I can.

I dyno's the car on a 90+ degree day in Florida. Mods at that moment were the Fabspeed Sport Cat Downpipe and the Bypass exhaust. I have changed up that setup since then. But my numbers on the Dynojet were 358whp and 407tq. Next mod will be an intercooler upgrade and will dyno with my new exhaust setup which replaced the Fabspeed Bypass with the Resonator Delete and Free Flow Exhaust from DINAN.

Corrected number reads higher on hotter days, especially on stock tune where there is plenty headroom for DME load adjustment to condition variance, before Dynojet makes the double effort.

Catless DP adds 10whp or so on stock m2/235i, think 10 at best with a high flow. Anything beyond that should come from mouth of seller. It'd be a different story when boost cranked up though.

And IC does nothing for peak power before heat soak which you're less prone to with stock tune. You will see a cooler IAT for sure but that should come with a lower boost from DME adjustment to preset load target, power will be made the same. That being said, you probably WILL see higher numbers only because of bigger STD/SAE correction factor applied (again, double effort with modern turbo engine) as weather is getting hotter.
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      06-25-2017, 07:30 AM   #40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SeanWRT View Post
Corrected number reads higher on hotter days, especially on stock tune where there is plenty headroom for DME load adjustment to condition variance, before Dynojet makes the double effort.

Catless DP adds 10whp or so on stock m2/235i, think 10 at best with a high flow. Anything beyond that should come from mouth of seller. It'd be a different story when boost cranked up though.

And IC does nothing for peak power before heat soak which you're less prone to with stock tune. You will see a cooler IAT for sure but that should come with a lower boost from DME adjustment to preset load target, power will be made the same. That being said, you probably WILL see higher numbers only because of bigger STD/SAE correction factor applied (again, double effort with modern turbo engine) as weather is getting hotter.
Makes sense, thanks for the info.

I figured the FMIC would not show an increase in power on stock tune, I'm mostly looking to battle heat sink issues I know I will most likely experience on a full track in FL weather.

After FMIC and maaaaybe Intake (still debating since I understand stock one is very efficient) I will decide on which tuning platform to go with.

My goal in not peak numbers, more interested in usable power in the midrange while still smooth as stock.
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      07-01-2017, 09:19 AM   #41
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Dinan Stage 4, Fabspeed 200 cel, Eventuri intake, 93 octane. 466.85 adjusted.
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      07-01-2017, 12:04 PM   #42
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DrKevM5 View Post
Dinan Stage 4, Fabspeed 200 cel, Eventuri intake, 93 octane. 466.85 adjusted.
373 whp on Dynojet looks legit for a 6MT with Dinan P2 + high flow downpipe. Its DCT counterpart on similar setup puts down 380 or so, reported by some other P2 users.

Care to clarify:
Is 373 an uncorrected number? Are you referring to 466whp as a STD/SAE corrected number or a crank hp calculation assuming a 20% drivetrain loss?

Congrats on your great build!
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      07-01-2017, 12:12 PM   #43
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373 is the uncorrected number. As stated on the bottom of the graph sheet, divide by .80 for crank numbers (20% loss).
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      07-01-2017, 12:29 PM   #44
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DrKevM5 View Post
373 is the uncorrected number. As stated on the bottom of the graph sheet, divide by .80 for crank numbers (20% loss).
This below is what I believe your car put down last winter on dinan stage one with all current hardwares but short of bigger turbo. Is that done on the same dyno machine? I noticed 357 is a SAE corrected number but uncorrected number probably wouldn't have been even lower since it's run in winter.

Is it truly less than 20whp that your butt dyno says jumping to P2?

I'm not being hard, I am only serious when it comes to telling true and false on power delivery.
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