[KSAF]

Originally Posted by BruceM

And that's to the wheels, on 91?

Originally Posted by Dinan_Engineering

To the crank on 93 actually---

Are you referring to fuel octane grades?

[omasou]

Originally Posted by KSAF

Are you referring to fuel octane grades?

Yes

[BruceM]

Originally Posted by Dinan_Engineering

To the crank on 93 actually--- same as every measurement we have ever done (for the past 25 years at least). Measured stock numbers were 360/404 so to 445/455 would be an 85/51 jump at the peak. Chances are the max gains in the super high end end (6k+) will be closer to triple digit deltas.

Numbers talk is getting way ahead of yourself though. This is all just speculation at this point and what we think will be reality. Fact of the matter is we are wrong quite a bit with what we think will be the case and what reality actually is so until an actual big turbo is bolted to the car and it begins its tuning process the numbers talk is pretty meaningless.

Thanks. Are your measured numbers to the crank directly from an engine dyno, or extrapolations from a wheel dyno? If the latter, what driveline loss do you apply to get to the numbers?

Is 93 commonly available where you are from in California? I had thought it was 91 down there....

[Dinan_Engineering]

Originally Posted by BruceM

Thanks. Are your measured numbers to the crank directly from an engine dyno, or extrapolations from a wheel dyno? If the latter, what driveline loss do you apply to get to the numbers?

Is 93 commonly available where you are from in California? I had thought it was 91 down there....

It is 91 at the pump out here. We mix gas to get 93 octane since that is what most of the country uses as premium gas. We use both our own engine dyno and our chassis (Dynapack) dyno to ascertain the crank numbers. While our engine dyno is mainly used for our race engines we do use it for street car testing as well. I will just copy and paste a previous response to the dyno question as it saves me some time. =)

The short answer to your question is we use both.

We do use a Dynapack chassis dyno and a DTS engine dyno for all of our testing. Like most OE's, we publish our crank numbers, not wheel horsepower numbers, simply to keep things as accurate as possible. Dinan tests multiple cars with multiple runs and averages them so no one chassis dyno test would be representative. When we compare our engine Dyno Data to our chassis dyno data we find that most if not all chassis dynos, including ours, overstates the lower RPM torque values. Our chassis dyno does not do a coast down for inertia and friction corrections. If we are using the chassis dyno once we have performed multiple Chassis dyno runs and averaged them we apply different correction factors to each RPM to correct for these inflated torque numbers. All this is done to ensure the most accurate reporting to our customers. We list both Stock and Dinan numbers using the same corrections to ensure the comparison is fair. If we are using the Engine Dyno the data is just averaged over multiple runs to get a fair average performance. With both the engine dyno and chassis dyno we ensure the room is as close to standard weather conditions as possible and all dyno runs are performed in the same weather window to ensure comparisons are fair. In most cases Dinan Dyno numbers will be lower than those you will get at low RPM because of the inaccuracy at low RPM previously mentioned. Also in most cases Dinan's numbers will be higher at hi RPM because of the work we do to ensure proper heat exchanging that we find almost no one else does.

A few years ago, we put together a really in-depth article on our dyno process and how even slight variables can affect the outcome of any test. http://dinancars.com/dinan-university/ - (Dynamometer Testing and The Modern BMW Engine)

It's a long article, but it gives you a really detailed looks at the process with a conclusion that has a good breakdown of what we covered. The most accurate thing we can say is that we've observed over 36 years of tuning, with most models we've tested, that the drivetrain loss is between 6.5 and 15 percent. It’s not as simple as a percentage however, as it varies on car, transmission, RPM, vehicle speed and a myriad of other variables.

The percentage listed in the last line is a bit off for the current generation of cars--- most of the modern RWD cars cap out at about a 13% drivetrain loss from what I have seen. On an AWD car that number is still in the 20% range however.

[BruceM]

Thanks. That linked article is outstanding. Not forgetting your perfectly sensible caveats, it seems from all this that we might see somewhere around 400 hp and 400 ft-lbs to the wheels of an M2 on the Big Turbo set-up. Little bit less if we are running 91 or 92, instead of 93 (Washington is 92, for example).

Not bad at all, I'd say...

[auf Deutsch]

Originally Posted by BruceM

Thanks. That linked article is outstanding. Not forgetting your perfectly sensible caveats, it seems from all this that we might see somewhere around 400 hp and 400 ft-lbs to the wheels of an M2 on the Big Turbo set-up. Little bit less if we are running 91 or 92, instead of 93 (Washington is 92, for example).

Not bad at all, I'd say...

I think 400/400 is plausible on a Dynojet with 93. The S55 consistently puts down 410-420 on a Dynojet and given the F87 is ~100 lighter than the F80/82, the trap speeds should be all but equal between the 2 cars...116-117 for 6MT, 118-119 DCT. It begs the question, will 265's be enough rubber to get the power down in 1st?

[BruceM]

Originally Posted by auf Deutsch

I think 400/400 is plausible on a Dynojet with 93. The S55 consistently puts down 410-420 on a Dynojet and given the F87 is ~100 lighter than the F80/82, the trap speeds should be all but equal between the 2 cars...116-117 for 6MT, 118-119 DCT. It begs the question, will 265's be enough rubber to get the power down in 1st?

Don't the MY2017s have 275s in the back now? But the question is still a good one.

[OrangeCrush]

Originally Posted by BruceM

Don't the MY2017s have 275s in the back now? But the question is still a good one.

No, that was a typo.

[auf Deutsch]

Originally Posted by BruceM

Don't the MY2017s have 275s in the back now? But the question is still a good one.

I just saw someone mounted 295 PSS rear on the stock rims FWIW.

[MTHRAR]

Anybody with an M2 get the Dinan Exhaust installed yet? I'm weighing my options at this time. There are a bunch of options, but I can't seem to decide what I want. I am looking at a spring purchase, so I have some time to decide yet.

[Benzima]

Is the Dinan S1 Tuner box compatible with MPE?

What are the gains using 91 octane?

[Dinan_Engineering]

Originally Posted by MTHRAR

Anybody with an M2 get the Dinan Exhaust installed yet? I'm weighing my options at this time. There are a bunch of options, but I can't seem to decide what I want. I am looking at a spring purchase, so I have some time to decide yet.

Plenty have shipped in the past 2 weeks or so so I have to imagine you will start to see some user reviews here in the short term.

Originally Posted by Benzima

Is the Dinan S1 Tuner box compatible with MPE?

What are the gains using 91 octane?

DINANTRONICS Stage 1 and the SPORT tuner are both compatible with MPE. Gains on 91 octane are minimal. If you only have access to 91 you probably will not see any real benefit to engine tuning until big turbos/fueling modifications are in play.

[omasou]

Originally Posted by Dinan_Engineering

Plenty have shipped in the past 2 weeks or so so I have to imagine you will start to see some user reviews here in the short term.

DINANTRONICS Stage 1 and the SPORT tuner are both compatible with MPE. Gains on 91 octane are minimal. If you only have access to 91 you probably will not see any real benefit to engine tuning until big turbos/fueling modifications are in play.

In my area they also have 92 and 93.

Is 92 or 93 that much more octane?

[Dinan_Engineering]

Originally Posted by masou

In my area they also have 92 and 93.

Is 92 or 93 that much more octane?

93 will make a difference from 91--- dont have much experience with 92 but its a bigger number then 91 so its got be at least marginally better. =)

[Benzima]

Originally Posted by Dinan_Engineering

Plenty have shipped in the past 2 weeks or so so I have to imagine you will start to see some user reviews here in the short term.



DINANTRONICS Stage 1 and the SPORT tuner are both compatible with MPE. Gains on 91 octane are minimal. If you only have access to 91 you probably will not see any real benefit to engine tuning until big turbos/fueling modifications are in play.

Thanks for your info.

[MTHRAR]

Originally Posted by Dinan_Engineering

Plenty have shipped in the past 2 weeks or so so I have to imagine you will start to see some user reviews here in the short term.

Awesome, I can't wait to hear thoughts from owners.

[omasou]

Originally Posted by Dinan_Engineering

93 will make a difference from 91--- dont have much experience with 92 but its a bigger number then 91 so its got be at least marginally better. =)

Sorry, I guess I should have asked the question differently.

Is octane ratings scale liner or logarithmic (like decibels), where a small change is significant?

[Dinan_Engineering]

Originally Posted by masou

Sorry, I guess I should have asked the question differently.

Is octane ratings scale liner or logarithmic (like decibels), where a small change is significant?

Depends on how the stock engine / mapping is calibrated. Some cars take additional octane much better then others as they have more base stock maps to choose from (or just a bigger gap in agressiveness). The car will automatically adjust to these internal maps based on timing so it can perform at as close to optimum as possible. Take the M4 as an example--- the difference between 91 and 93 on that car is actually pretty significant to the power (~15HP) whereas on a same year 335i its more like a 5HP difference. In general terms putting 100 octane fuel instead of 93 will usually net you 20+ WHP instantly with no other mods on the stock engine tune. Just simply because of octane.

[Bimmer28312]

What's the difference from your stage 1 and the quick plug in DINANTRONICS Sport Performance ?

[Dinan_Engineering]

Originally Posted by Bimmer28312

What's the difference from your stage 1 and the quick plug in DINANTRONICS Sport Performance ?

From a straight numbers/delta comparison, nothing.

Stage 1 however addresses more inputs and in theory (debatable given the limited gains in the stage 1 form) would equate to better drivability (smoother power delivery, shifts, etc). The 2 bigger things would be the Stage 1 has the factory matching warranty and is upgradable down the road for when the intercooler and big turbo come out and will be able to take advantage of those hard parts. The sport unit would not be able to do that.

Right now though its basically warranty.

[omasou]

Stopped by the dealer today and while there I checked out the Dinan display. Not sure which model parts were on display but I will say the carbon fiber intake was very nice and the exhaust was made from nice thick and solid SS and the tips (not black) were larger than I thought and very nice!

Quality stuff!

[Dinan_Engineering]

Originally Posted by masou

Stopped by the dealer today and while there I checked out the Dinan display. Not sure which model parts were on display but I will say the carbon fiber intake was very nice and the exhaust was made from nice thick and solid SS and the tips (not black) were larger than I thought and very nice!

Quality stuff!

Most, if not all, the stuff on the glass displays are F10 M5 parts (or half of them in the case of the intake and exhaust).