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      11-09-2019, 04:30 PM   #1
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TC Kline or Ohlins, input appreciated **updated**

Fellow track rats,

Looking into suspension and pretty much had it nailed down to the Ohlins coilovers with TCK camber plates. I like the single dial adjustability. Seems easy for a car that will be 80% street, 20% track.

But I also like the idea of supporting a die hard track enthusiast that has given a lot back to the BMW racing community... I know on the M3/M4 forums a lot of guys have the TCK setup and love it, Im just wondering how easy it is to adjust.

Any feedback would be appreciated... doing a WRL race at COTA in a couple weeks but my first DE in the M2c will be late Feb, so I have a little time to sort this out, but not a ton.

Thanks!
J.
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      11-09-2019, 06:03 PM   #2
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I have the TCK D/A kit on my E46 and it's been perfect for the past 7 years. I plan to get the same for my M2C within the year. I rode in a car with Ohlins RT and although it wasn't on the track, it felt very similar to OE; just lowered.
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      11-10-2019, 10:32 AM   #3
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Im happy with the Ohlin DFV R&Ts..….for my road and track application. Good everyday ride quality at 10+ clicks. I don't necessarily love the bottom adjustment..but oh well. Sorry..no experience with the TCKs for comparison.
Ill be at the WRL PDS on Friday. Stop by if you'd like to take a look (MGM #7).

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      11-10-2019, 01:08 PM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Commanderwiggin View Post
I have the TCK D/A kit on my E46 and it's been perfect for the past 7 years. I plan to get the same for my M2C within the year. I rode in a car with Ohlins RT and although it wasn't on the track, it felt very similar to OE; just lowered.
Everyone who uses the TCK stuff just loves it. How are they to adjust?

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Originally Posted by M2MGM View Post
Im happy with the Ohlin DFV R&Ts..Ö.for my road and track application. Good everyday ride quality at 10+ clicks. I don't necessarily love the bottom adjustment..but oh well. Sorry..no experience with the TCKs for comparison.
Ill be at the WRL PDS on Friday. Stop by if you'd like to take a look (MGM #7).
Thanks! I might just do that... I thought we had some test time on Friday as well. Not sure what garage we have but were running a Supra and Lex IS. The Supra is hard to miss. Will definitely try to find you - would like to check out the adjustment knob.
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      11-10-2019, 01:29 PM   #5
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Originally Posted by Malakas View Post
Everyone who uses the TCK stuff just loves it. How are they to adjust?
Yeah they've been awesome. To adjust rebound you need access to the top of the damper and the compression is at the bottom of the old kits. Pretty easy to adjust. On the F8X kits the compression is still at the bottom and they moved the rebound so you can access from the wheelhouse. See here: http://www.tcklineracing.com/webdocs...etails1204.cfm

One thing...Koni dampers may not look the nicest but they're stupid reliable and perform really well in comparison to MCS/JRZ/Ohlins.
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      11-10-2019, 04:06 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Malakas View Post
Fellow track rats,

Looking into suspension and pretty much had it nailed down to the Ohlins coilovers with TCK camber plates. I like the single dial adjustability. Seems easy for a car that will be 80% street, 20% track.

But I also like the idea of supporting a die hard track enthusiast that has given a lot back to the BMW racing community... I know on the M3/M4 forums a lot of guys have the TCK setup and love it, Im just wondering how easy it is to adjust.

Any feedback would be appreciated... doing a WRL race at COTA in a couple weeks but my first DE in the M2c will be late Feb, so I have a little time to sort this out, but not a ton.

Thanks!
J.
Personally I wouldn't bother with either you are considering. Skip both and go with MCS singles. They can be pared with spring rates that are comfortable on the street and very effective on the track.
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      11-10-2019, 05:13 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PrimeBMW View Post
Personally I wouldn't bother with either you are considering. Skip both and go with MCS singles. They can be pared with spring rates that are comfortable on the street and very effective on the track.
Iím in the same boat as the OP, trying to decide between Ohlins and TCK. Iím curious what benefits youíre getting for a ~50% increase in cost.

Both the Ohlins and Koni dampers have a decent reputation for longevity. Can the MCS stand up to multiple years on a daily in all weather conditions, or do you trade off more frequent service for more sensitive dampers?
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      11-10-2019, 08:54 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bentom2 View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by PrimeBMW View Post
Personally I wouldn't bother with either you are considering. Skip both and go with MCS singles. They can be pared with spring rates that are comfortable on the street and very effective on the track.
I’m in the same boat as the OP, trying to decide between Ohlins and TCK. I’m curious what benefits you’re getting for a ~50% increase in cost.

Both the Ohlins and Koni dampers have a decent reputation for longevity. Can the MCS stand up to multiple years on a daily in all weather conditions, or do you trade off more frequent service for more sensitive dampers?
How much are the options you are considering? Most MCS singles are $2450 plus camber plates, springs and then install. That is some top notch performance for the price. I don't know how many street miles you put on but might need to rebuild in a couple years??? (Rebuilds are reasonably priced) MCS has the best customer service in the industry. So you can't go wrong. Plus you'll never risk wishing or needing better performance. Unless you upgrade to double or triples (which is overkill for HPDE)
I guess I would ask this. Are you competitive, interested in improving and going as quick as you possibly can? Buy MCS. If not then I guess it doesn't matter what you buy.

*I often see or hear of someone buying Ohlin R&T or KW Club Sports thinking they are top notch. Then a couple years later understanding that they are not that great. They then go with MCS or JRZ. Now that is a expensive route.
Hopefully this is helpful.
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      11-10-2019, 09:19 PM   #9
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I have no experience with TCK so cannot compare - but I am very happy with the Ohlins RT on my M2. Very capable on this platform on the track & still with good street manners. I run their suggested spring rates - very good no fuss setup imo.

Sorry - off topic - M2MGM you running over the weekend too at WRL or just there for Friday?
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      11-10-2019, 09:37 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PrimeBMW View Post
How much are the options you are considering? Most MCS singles are $2450 plus camber plates, springs and then install. That is some top notch performance for the price. I don't know how many street miles you put on but might need to rebuild in a couple years??? (Rebuilds are reasonably priced) MCS has the best customer service in the industry. So you can't go wrong. Plus you'll never risk wishing or needing better performance. Unless you upgrade to double or triples (which is overkill for HPDE)
I guess I would ask this. Are you competitive, interested in improving and going as quick as you possibly can? Buy MCS. If not then I guess it doesn't matter what you buy.

*I often see or hear of someone buying Ohlin R&T or KW Club Sports thinking they are top notch. Then a couple years later understanding that they are not that great. They then go with MCS or JRZ. Now that is a expensive route.
Hopefully this is helpful.
Certainly canít go wrong with MCS but I think you might be pleasantly surprised with the ohlins on this car. Itís actually a very capable package on this platform. Maybe not on other platforms - that I donít know - but definitely happy with them on my F87.
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      11-10-2019, 11:04 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PrimeBMW View Post
How much are the options you are considering? Most MCS singles are $2450 plus camber plates, springs and then install. That is some top notch performance for the price. I don't know how many street miles you put on but might need to rebuild in a couple years??? (Rebuilds are reasonably priced) MCS has the best customer service in the industry. So you can't go wrong. Plus you'll never risk wishing or needing better performance. Unless you upgrade to double or triples (which is overkill for HPDE)
I guess I would ask this. Are you competitive, interested in improving and going as quick as you possibly can? Buy MCS. If not then I guess it doesn't matter what you buy.

*I often see or hear of someone buying Ohlin R&T or KW Club Sports thinking they are top notch. Then a couple years later understanding that they are not that great. They then go with MCS or JRZ. Now that is a expensive route.
Hopefully this is helpful.

Ohlins R&T and TC Kline Double Adjustable are both right around $3k. Looks like MCS 1w are a bit more for on the F8x platform for whatever reason, around $3,300. Springs and camber plates are another $1,100.

The overkill you bring up for 2w or 3w is exactly what Iím trying to figure out for the $3k options vs the MCS. Support and service are certainly worth something. Sounds like TCK is at least s accessible as MCS, and my preferred local shop is an Ohlins dealer, including in house rebuild/revalve.

FWIW, Iíve absolutely ruled out KW CS. At $5k, Iíd absolutely go with your recommendation instead.

This stuff is tough to work through. Itís at least as subjective as tires or brake pads, but at least I can experiment with those and find what works for me. With suspension, youíre stuck with it for a long time, or out a hefty sum to switch.

On the other hand, coming from stock suspension, Iím sure any of these options will be a nice improvement.
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      11-11-2019, 11:11 AM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by M2MGM View Post
Im signed up for the Friday DE only....but might stick around to spectate Saturdayís race.
Good deal, enjoyed the DE last year but the traffic got a bit frustrating at times. Was a lot of fun with some of the race teams mixed into the groups though. I'll be in an m240iR for the weekend - should be a lot of fun seeing how it compares to our M2's.

Quote:
Originally Posted by bentom2 View Post
Ohlins R&T and TC Kline Double Adjustable are both right around $3k. Looks like MCS 1w are a bit more for on the F8x platform for whatever reason, around $3,300. Springs and camber plates are another $1,100.

The overkill you bring up for 2w or 3w is exactly what Iím trying to figure out for the $3k options vs the MCS. Support and service are certainly worth something. Sounds like TCK is at least s accessible as MCS, and my preferred local shop is an Ohlins dealer, including in house rebuild/revalve.

FWIW, Iíve absolutely ruled out KW CS. At $5k, Iíd absolutely go with your recommendation instead.

This stuff is tough to work through. Itís at least as subjective as tires or brake pads, but at least I can experiment with those and find what works for me. With suspension, youíre stuck with it for a long time, or out a hefty sum to switch.

On the other hand, coming from stock suspension, Iím sure any of these options will be a nice improvement.
Having your preferred shop being that familiar with Ohlins is definitely a plus. But would also think MCS would get you sorted out pretty quickly as well - with a bit of extra time in the mix for shipping. Hopefully the service frequency doesn't end up being that much either way you go so it doesn't end up being an issue.

Do you have wheels & tires figured out yet? With the larger spring perches vs oem you might need to consider this as well. I know with the Ohlins it is very, very tight - but I can run a 9.5" front with 285 Pirelli DH or 275 Hoosier R7 on the track. I back down to a 265 MP4S on the street. Run all these on 18" wheels. Not sure about the size of the MCS - maybe PrimeBMW can give you some feedback here. I want to say that Ohlins is on the larger size so MCS should have better clearance, but I'm definitely not 100%. Just something else to consider if you haven't already - a lot going on with our M2's.
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      11-11-2019, 12:19 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OG Shark View Post
Good deal, enjoyed the DE last year but the traffic got a bit frustrating at times. Was a lot of fun with some of the race teams mixed into the groups though. I'll be in an m240iR for the weekend - should be a lot of fun seeing how it compares to our M2's.



Having your preferred shop being that familiar with Ohlins is definitely a plus. But would also think MCS would get you sorted out pretty quickly as well - with a bit of extra time in the mix for shipping. Hopefully the service frequency doesn't end up being that much either way you go so it doesn't end up being an issue.

Do you have wheels & tires figured out yet? With the larger spring perches vs oem you might need to consider this as well. I know with the Ohlins it is very, very tight - but I can run a 9.5" front with 285 Pirelli DH or 275 Hoosier R7 on the track. I back down to a 265 MP4S on the street. Run all these on 18" wheels. Not sure about the size of the MCS - maybe PrimeBMW can give you some feedback here. I want to say that Ohlins is on the larger size so MCS should have better clearance, but I'm definitely not 100%. Just something else to consider if you haven't already - a lot going on with our M2's.
Good point about wheel clearance. I do recall now reading something about decreased tire/wheel clearance with the Ohlins.

Iím running APEX FL-5 in 18x9.5 et28 fitted with Hankook RS4 265/35r18. Iíll want to be able to run 275s as well and prefer not to use spacers, though they arenít completely out of the question.

What offset are your 9.5s? Sounds like youíre shuffling plenty of tire in there despite the tight fit.
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      11-11-2019, 12:53 PM   #14
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Thanks for all of the responses - this is exactly the conversation I was hoping to start...

Quote:
Originally Posted by PrimeBMW View Post
Personally I wouldn't bother with either you are considering. Skip both and go with MCS singles. They can be pared with spring rates that are comfortable on the street and very effective on the track.
MCS... oh MCS. Yes these shocks are pure sexiness. I spoke with them a few months ago about running the electronic setup (at 10k but oh so cool) but never really considered the single adjustable. Would probably be around 5k all in (shocks, springs, camber plates and install) but maybe worth trying it out.

I wish I understood more about shock technology... would only rebound adjustment be enough to have a setting for street and one for track?


Quote:
Originally Posted by bentom2 View Post
Both the Ohlins and Koni dampers have a decent reputation for longevity. Can the MCS stand up to multiple years on a daily in all weather conditions, or do you trade off more frequent service for more sensitive dampers?
I asked about the rebuild interval and I cant remember what they said, but it was definitely not bad. And at that point you could upgrade to 2W if you wanted to.

Quote:
Originally Posted by OG Shark View Post
Certainly can’t go wrong with MCS but I think you might be pleasantly surprised with the ohlins on this car. It’s actually a very capable package on this platform. Maybe not on other platforms - that I don’t know - but definitely happy with them on my F87.
All I have heard is great things.


Quote:
Originally Posted by bentom2 View Post
...I’m sure any of these options will be a nice improvement.
Thats for sure, but it is a tough decision. Right now MCS with camber plates look to be 5k range, Ohlins 3200 + camber plates, and TCK is 2900 WITH the Camber plates. For a car that is only doing to see a DE here and there for fun not sure if there's a huge handling / cost advantage in going MCS... but they sure are trick.
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      11-11-2019, 04:06 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bentom2 View Post
Good point about wheel clearance. I do recall now reading something about decreased tire/wheel clearance with the Ohlins.

Iím running APEX FL-5 in 18x9.5 et28 fitted with Hankook RS4 265/35r18. Iíll want to be able to run 275s as well and prefer not to use spacers, though they arenít completely out of the question.

What offset are your 9.5s? Sounds like youíre shuffling plenty of tire in there despite the tight fit.
That is the same size/offset that I have on the front - but I do have to use a 7.5mm spacer Turner 7.5mm Spacer to clear. I'm with you on preferring not to run spacers - unfortunately there was no way around it with this combination on my car.
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      11-11-2019, 05:16 PM   #16
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The shop that I go to here in Portland is AR Motorsports. They have likely installed more MCS that anyone. Plus have helped prototype MCS for a number of platforms. They would likely be below $5000 for parts, install, alignment and corner balance. Between AR Motorsports and MCS you would get your track and street settings. The valving would also allow you to change spring rates if you like.

*I also have MCS triples on my race car.
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      11-11-2019, 07:14 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PrimeBMW View Post
The shop that I go to here in Portland is AR Motorsports. They have likely installed more MCS that anyone. Plus have helped prototype MCS for a number of platforms. They would likely be below $5000 for parts, install, alignment and corner balance. Between AR Motorsports and MCS you would get your track and street settings. The valving would also allow you to change spring rates if you like.

*I also have MCS triples on my race car.
If I convince myself to spend MCS money, Iíd definitely source through AR. Dan is at a number of the DE days I attend providing support for anyone who needs it. Pretty cool that they do this. Iíve never needed his services fortunately, but itís good knowing heís there.

Iíll probably reach out to them for a quote when I get closer.
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      11-11-2019, 07:54 PM   #18
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The shop that I go to here in Portland is AR Motorsports...
Cool. Thanks for the rec. I sent MCS an email this morning but haven't heard back yet.
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      11-12-2019, 02:49 PM   #19
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If I convince myself to spend MCS money, Iíd definitely source through AR. .
Do you have his contact info?
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      11-12-2019, 05:28 PM   #20
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Quote:
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bentom2 View Post
If I convince myself to spend MCS money, I’d definitely source through AR. .
Do you have his contact info?
AR Motorsports 5036973311. You want to talk to their performance/Motorsports division.
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      11-12-2019, 06:28 PM   #21
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AR Motorsports 5036973311. You want to talk to their performance/Motorsports division.
Thanks!
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      11-14-2019, 04:50 PM   #22
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