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      08-15-2018, 08:21 AM   #1
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N55 Extreme Engine Cooling

Hey guys.

We all know the packaging and cooling system shortcomings of the OG M2, vs the M2 Comp and S55. Altho, these shortcomings tend to not appear until you're really pushing the car on track.

I'm running the Dinan Stage 4 setup (turbo, piggyback, Dinan IC) and CSF cooling pack (radiator, DCT, oil) and experienced some pretty high temps at my last track day.

Max temps:
Ambient - 107F
IAT - 161F
Oil - 266F
Coolant - 253F

This was an open track day and I was running with slicks, AP racing brakes, all the Stage 4 goodies, and pushing the car hard for 40min runs, so I'd say this is an extreme case for the M2.

The car starts to pull power above 242F coolant and will go into emergency cooling mode around 257F coolant. I was getting significant power pulled, so I'm searching for more engine cooling capacity.

CSF said they're working on a larger radiator, but it requires an AC delete due to the M2's packaging.

Do you guys have any ideas or other solutions? Thanks.

Last edited by ZM2; 08-15-2018 at 10:04 PM..
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      08-15-2018, 10:13 AM   #2
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Here’s a few options: https://f87.bimmerpost.com/forums/sh...452618&page=11

Any other thoughts out there?

Thanks.
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      08-15-2018, 11:41 AM   #3
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Should really try ECU tune. Make more power with less boost. Engine will run cooler as well.
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      08-15-2018, 07:18 PM   #4
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Have you also considered the installation of a a water methanol kit? Personally I've found it's help and made a difference in my neck of the temperate woods.

I've been running a 51/49 blend from by works and the car has been great especially during hot days.
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      08-15-2018, 07:33 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SeanWRT View Post
Should really try ECU tune. Make more power with less boost. Engine will run cooler as well.
Iíd use every bit of that extra power, so Iím thinking sheíd still get hot after 30min.

Itís definitely on my list to try once my warranty expires. At least I can get some coverage from Dinan for now if my engine decided to implode on one of my hot laps.
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      08-15-2018, 07:34 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by amelia.f87m2 View Post
Have you also considered the installation of a a water methanol kit? Personally I've found it's help and made a difference in my neck of the temperate woods.

I've been running a 51/49 blend from by works and the car has been great especially during hot days.
This popped in my head, but I donít know much about it. Do you have a good link so I can do some studying? Thanks.
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      08-16-2018, 11:41 AM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ZM2 View Post
Iíd use every bit of that extra power, so Iím thinking sheíd still get hot after 30min.

Itís definitely on my list to try once my warranty expires. At least I can get some coverage from Dinan for now if my engine decided to implode on one of my hot laps.
What fuel are you running?
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      08-16-2018, 11:43 AM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cecaa850 View Post
What fuel are you running?
100 octane.
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      08-16-2018, 01:02 PM   #9
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Originally Posted by ZM2 View Post
100 octane.

So much for that idea.......................
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      08-16-2018, 01:11 PM   #10
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107 ambient temp and 40min runs. Jesus!
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      08-16-2018, 02:03 PM   #11
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Time for the dry ice reservoir? I’ll connect it directly to my cool suit, as well.
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      08-16-2018, 04:09 PM   #12
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Do88 big pack is coming soon, some parts already are available like intercooler or raidator.
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      08-16-2018, 04:45 PM   #13
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Meth injection is a very fun upgrade. I use it myself.

But it won't help oil/coolant temps.
Sounds like some hardware changes will need to be made.

I'm now hesitant to run my car at the track with all these overheating issues being documented.....aren't M cars suppose to be "Track Ready".
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      08-16-2018, 05:53 PM   #14
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I'd try in that order

1- ECU tune with logs sent to tuner from your track évents, tuner need to tailor map specific for your needs.

2- Bigger intercooler Race VRSF maybe ?

3- Meth injection will cure all your problem buts its a more complicated solution
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      08-16-2018, 06:33 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PLF69 View Post
I'd try in that order

1- ECU tune with logs sent to tuner from your track ťvents, tuner need to tailor map specific for your needs.

2- Bigger intercooler Race VRSF maybe ?

3- Meth injection will cure all your problem buts its a more complicated solution
I just don’t think these will fix the problem. They’ll only create more power and heat into a long run.

I’m going to have to figure out how to remove more btu’s from the coolant loop.
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      08-16-2018, 06:35 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GerardzM View Post
Meth injection is a very fun upgrade. I use it myself.

But it won't help oil/coolant temps.
Sounds like some hardware changes will need to be made.

I'm now hesitant to run my car at the track with all these overheating issues being documented.....aren't M cars suppose to be "Track Ready".
Youíll be ok, unless you start pushing more boost.
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      08-16-2018, 06:36 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jiaim View Post
Do88 big pack is coming soon, some parts already are available like intercooler or raidator.
Do88?
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      08-16-2018, 06:37 PM   #18
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Meth will not help at all, if anything it makes engine hotter, because octane improves and IAT decreases so engine keeps pushing.

I myself did track on similar condition a few times, bigger turbo or stock. I believe the humidity was even higher in my area and heat index (feels like) is 122+F. There was no heat soak (oil, coolant, IAT) issue whatsoever, the needle stayed dead in the middle however hard I pushed. Only thing my brake was hot like hell, you can hardly stand next to it even after a cooling lap...

The key to keep engine cool is 1) Less boost 2) Less back pressure 3) Richer afr (Dinan does that) 4) Higher timing ignition (helps EGT).

I also suspect Dinan intercooler can be part of the root cause. I have no doubt it cools IAT well thanks to the dual core design. But the dual core 'block' the air moving thru so the radiators behind it gets less cooling as a result.
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      08-16-2018, 06:41 PM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SeanWRT View Post
Meth will not help at all, if anything it makes engine hotter, because octane improves and IAT decreases so engine keeps pushing.

I myself did track on similar condition, twice. I believe the humidity is even higher and heat index (feels like) is 122+F. There is no heat soak (oil, coolant, IAT) issue whatsoever. Only my brake is hot like hell, you can't even stand near to it.

The key is to keep engine cool - you need 1) less boost 2) less back pressure 3) higher timing ignition (it helps ETG).

I also suspect Dinan intercooler can be part of the root cause. I have no doubt it cools IAT well thanks to the dual core design. But it's exactly the dual core that 'block' the moving air going thru them. The Radiator behind the intercooler gets less cooling air as a result.
Yeah, I wondered about the IC blocking airflow. What IC do you recommend thatís large and without significant pressure drop?

Iím also curious if a larger auxiliary radiator would help.
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      08-16-2018, 09:35 PM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SeanWRT View Post
Meth will not help at all, if anything it makes engine hotter, because octane improves and IAT decreases so engine keeps pushing.

I myself did track on similar condition a few times, bigger turbo or stock. I believe the humidity was even higher in my area and heat index (feels like) is 122+F. There was no heat soak (oil, coolant, IAT) issue whatsoever, the needle stayed dead in the middle however hard I pushed. Only thing my brake was hot like hell, you can hardly stand near to it even after a cooling lap...

The key is to keep engine cool - you need 1) less boost 2) less back pressure 3) higher timing ignition (it helps ETG).

I also suspect Dinan intercooler can be part of the root cause. I have no doubt it cools IAT well thanks to the dual core design. But it's exactly the dual core that 'block' the moving air going thru them. The Radiator behind the intercooler gets less cooling air as a result.
I trust your opinion, you have much more M2 track expérience than a lot around here.

I still think a custom tune that keeps Boost/timing inside parameters that are controllable by the OP's cooling setup could work.
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      08-16-2018, 10:57 PM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ZM2 View Post
Yeah, I wondered about the IC blocking airflow. What IC do you recommend that's large and without significant pressure drop?

I'm also curious if a larger auxiliary radiator would help.
I use Wagner Evo2 comp intercooler. It holds up pretty well at 17~18psi full range, either with stock or bigger turbo. A side note - bigger turbo runs cooler (cooler IAT and cooler turbo itself) because of less shaft speed and less backpressure. Turbo shares cooling oil with engine, so cooler turbo means cooler engine.

Last time of HPDE, 100+F ambient temp + 70+% humidity, IAT maxed at 125~128F, pretty stable, in every 20min section. TBH I didn't do longer than 30min as you did, so I don't know what could happen.

When you have enough cooling, you start to care about the rest - pressure loss, heat recovery and weight etc, then Wagner is the clear winner, at least for me.

Bigger auxiliary radiator will help for sure. CSF cooling pack is a nice upgrade, though you have to factor in the weight penalty on the front.
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      08-17-2018, 12:45 AM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ZM2 View Post
Youíll be ok, unless you start pushing more boost.
But that's what most want to do lol

I completely agree with you.

Am running the JB4 on Map3 (Methanol Map)
And it pulled strong in 113 degree heat.

But I've since decided to run the stock map and just use the injection to recoup the power that is lost through the crap 91 octane...stuff should be illegal!
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