[lens]

Originally Posted by BGM-M3COMP

And like i said my reply is a general post. I wasn't only responding to you, i was responding to multiple people here. Hence why i kept saying you guys are wrong.

Notice how i kept that statement very clear? You guys are wrong when you say you can ONLY enjoy manual?

How you interpret that statement based off your own reply to me is all on you. Others have been responding besides you you know.

The issue is, is that people are posting their reply based off emotion. I am not attacking what you want or love when you drive. I am simply shooting down the notion when YOU, MEANING IN GENERAL, of the people who oppose what i said, when YOU, MEANING IN GENERAL, state that you can "ONLY" enjoy a manual.

I am simply stating that is not true.

Let's leave emotions aside when we post. The end of it is we all love cars. Doesn't matter what trans it has. So let's not pretend one can only enjoy one kind.

Transmission wars has always been a thing since car culture began.

EU peeps essentially point at NA and laugh at us as autos are a luxury for them, and driving manual is very normal over there, there's nothing special to it like people in NA worship the transmission to be.


Drive what you like to drive, I personally drive the car for the car, and not so much the transmission. Some people like manuals, and some like autos, at the end of the day, it's their car, they're the ones driving it, not you. We're headed to the extinction of combustion engines/manuals either way, so I think we should all just enjoy what we have until we're forced to convert to electric vehicles.

[BGM-M3COMP]

Originally Posted by chaungo

Transmission wars has always been a thing since car culture began.

EU peeps essentially point at NA and laugh at us as autos are a luxury for them, and driving manual is very normal over there, there's nothing special to it like people in NA worship the transmission to be.


Drive what you like to drive, I personally drive the car for the car, and not so much the transmission. Some people like manuals, and some like autos, at the end of the day, it's their car, they're the ones driving it, not you. We're headed to the extinction of combustion engines/manuals either way, so I think we should all just enjoy what we have until we're forced to convert to electric vehicles.

That’s the thing. No where in this thread have I bashed someone to wanting or loving a manual. If anything if people go back to my original posts I was simply stating my preference, just like everyone is doing, but of course the manual guys got offended and had to say something about it.

If people read carefully I am not saying people are dumb or wrong for wanting to drive or own a manual. I simply corrected the implication that you can ONLY enjoy a car if it’s a manual. Which is still wrong and dumb to even say that. If one person concedes to that, doesn’t make that statement true.

Just having one person who enjoys both or auto more debunks that theory right away.

To sum it up, you can absolutely enjoy both.

I enjoy auto more and I still own a manual car.

[UPSROD]

No!!!

[G80indy]

Hey let's start a new thread!

"Anyone miss driving an automatic?"

😝🤢🤢🥴

[shawnhayes]

Originally Posted by BGM-M3COMP

You don't have to manually shift a torque converter trans car wtf lol.

Actually leaving it in auto nets you the fastest shifts as the computer knows when to shift for optimal acceleration.

I will absolutely disagree with this. In a straight line? Sure.

On a track, no way. I can demonstrate many many situations that the automatic logic, even on my M5 CS, is in the wrong gear for the turn, accelerating in the turn, and during braking for the turn.

Same driver, same car, on a track they know, I'll bet one second faster for every minute on the track, manual shift of slushbox vs auto.

Shawn

[Bootboot340]

I don't miss it because I do it every day. Pretty hard to find a 300hp+ sedan with rwd and a manual these days. But my 2016 340i fit the bill and had thp and msport as a bonus. I added BM3 1and soon will go 2+. Very happy with this car. And all my cars have been manual.

[BGM-M3COMP]

Originally Posted by shawnhayes

I will absolutely disagree with this. In a straight line? Sure.

On a track, no way. I can demonstrate many many situations that the automatic logic, even on my M5 CS, is in the wrong gear for the turn, accelerating in the turn, and during braking for the turn.

Same driver, same car, on a track they know, I'll bet one second faster for every minute on the track, manual shift of slushbox vs auto.

Shawn

Every car has different programming for the trans. Even though it might utilize the same trans for instance the zf 8 in your car vs a zf8 speed in a hellcat etc.

Straight line speed definitely. I think the only time a car runs “slower” in “auto mode “ is for dct cars. A GTR is SLOW in auto. Using the paddles net faster results. Same with the c8 stingray/gt500 etc

An average driver, which makes up 98% of this forum, that drove similar cars one with a manual , and then one with an auto the auto would be faster, whether in full auto or manual mode.

But of course fun factor is relative in either situation. Because I know people will say that driver will ONLY have fun in a manual.

But then I’d counter it and say that’s not true as just being out there in general equates to enjoyment.

You guys wouldn’t want a 2022 civic si manual over a Ferrari 488 to drive right? I mean the civic is a manual after all right?

[HighlandPete]

Originally Posted by chaungo

EU peeps essentially point at NA and laugh at us as autos are a luxury for them, and driving manual is very normal over there, there's nothing special to it like people in NA worship the transmission to be.

Yes, over here in the EU/UK, MT is the transmission most learn with, traditionally has been the cheaper option and most economical transmission. May have changed of recent years, but MT is still the domain of cheaper transport.

I know folks who wish they could get AT in some models, where AT is not an option. Performance diesels also changed the scene, when AT proved to be the better transmission in most installations.

I never owned AT myself for over 30-years of driving, although driving AT in business and the motor trade for a few years. No desire to have one. The last 20-years I've only owned AT.

I'm also in the camp that driving pleasure is not dependant on MT. Some of it depends on the vehicle I choose to drive, and the use it is put to.

What I like about the current 8-speed AT, you have choices on how you drive. You can be as involved as you want to be. I enjoy driving, always have and honed my skills to a decent level. I like the idea I can say, "how shall I drive today?" Choose to be totally in control of the transmission, or simply leave it in D. Often I have a 'mix' of driving, according to the roads I travel.

[BGM-M3COMP]

Originally Posted by HighlandPete

Yes, over here in the EU/UK, MT is the transmission most learn with, traditionally has been the cheaper option and most economical transmission. May have changed of recent years, but MT is still the domain of cheaper transport.

I know folks who wish they could get AT in some models, where AT is not an option. Performance diesels also changed the scene, when AT proved to be the better transmission in most installations.

I never owned AT myself for over 30-years of driving, although driving AT in business and the motor trade for a few years. No desire to have one. The last 20-years I've only owned AT.

I'm also in the camp that driving pleasure is not dependant on MT. Some of it depends on the vehicle I choose to drive, and the use it is put to.

What I like about the current 8-speed AT, you have choices on how you drive. You can be as involved as you want to be. I enjoy driving, always have and honed my skills to a decent level. I like the idea I can say, "how shall I drive today?" Choose to be totally in control of the transmission, or simply leave it in D. Often I have a 'mix' of driving, according to the roads I travel.

Exactly.

A lot of the modern day performance cars are equipped with multiple stages of engine/trans setting.

I have full control of my M3 comp when using the paddles, all while keeping both hands on the steering wheel. And i won't disrupt momentum of the car because i have to clutch in, and shift, then accelerate again, even if that movement is done in a second or less.

But this discussion hasn't become about skillset or preference. We all prefer one or the other.

I was just explaining how people are wrong when they think you can only have fun or enjoy a manual. That's all i was correcting.

Now if they said, THEY HAVE MORE FUN in a manual. Then yeah that means they have more fun in a manual. BUt they are speaking as if EVERYONE who ever drove, or drives or driven a manual was having fun, and those who ever drove, drives or driven auto wasn't having fun. That's basically what they're implying.

And that shit is all kinds of ass backwards ass logic.

[G80indy]

Dude !!!!

The horse is dead

[BGM-M3COMP]

Originally Posted by 330indy

Dude !!!!

The manual is dead


:

Oh ok got it

[G80indy]

Yeah you're the authority 🙄


https://www.autoevolution.com/news/t...ss-192272.html

[ The head honcho of BMW M told Autocar that half of F87 orders were for the six-speed manual transmission. "People want to say they can handle the beast," added Frank van Meel. "If they have a way of showing they can do that, then they want it - and a manual gearbox is part of that." ]

[LIL F30]

I love going through gears. Even fun in my little 2.0 4 banger.

[jmg]

30 years driving, 20 of those with a manual.... I miss it a little bit, but I'm not preventing myself from having fun without one. I'm not dependent or pretentious enough to think you can only have fun in a manual. I've had lots of fun with my M3 CS DCT or the G82 auto. It's probably more involving than any hard parker with a manual street racing BRZs on the way to the grocery store.

However, I'll probably get one in the next few years for one more round. For nostalgia.

[BGM-M3COMP]

Originally Posted by jmg

30 years driving, 20 of those with a manual.... I miss it a little bit, but I'm not preventing myself from having fun without one. I'm not dependent or pretentious enough to think you can only have fun in a manual. I've had lots of fun with my M3 CS DCT or the G82 auto. It's probably more involving than any hard parker with a manual street racing BRZs on the way to the grocery store.

However, I'll probably get one in the next few years for one more round. For nostalgia.

During the pandemic when my friend lost his job I had his GTR for 4 months, while helping him make those payments until he got a new job and I enjoyed his car so much I think I put about 600 miles on my c7z in those 4 months.

Having a fast car that’s auto trumps having a fast manual car.

All I’m saying is you can absolutely have fun in both. Not “only” manual.

[RM7]

Originally Posted by Efthreeoh

Shifting the DCT in your M-car when you want is not using an automatic transmission. Why is that so difficult to comprehend?

Then neither is a ZF8 or any other automatic transmission, since they all have "manual" modes. If the transmission shifts for you, that means automatic. If it has a manual mode, so be it. If I go get in my SS 1LE, there's no "drive" to put it in. It won't shift itself. Ever.

[HNSKP]

Originally Posted by jmg

I've had lots of fun with my M3 CS DCT or the G82 auto. It's probably more involving than any hard parker with a manual street racing BRZs on the way to the grocery store.

Gonna have to disagree with you on the BRZ there. Absolutely more fun to drive a slow car fast. Owned an FRS for 5 years and I rank it even above my current G80 manual in terms of involvement on the road (track is a different story).

[RM7]

Originally Posted by Efthreeoh

Discussing a DCT in manual mode as being an automatic trans that solves the automatic shifting when it wants to is utterly ridiculous. The DCT is a manual transmission without a foot-operated clutch.

We are getting into "oil thread" territory...

DCT shifts automatically and doesn't have a third pedal. End of story.

If you are hinging it on having a manual mode...well so does every other auto trans these days.

Doesn't matter what color you paint this horse.

[shawnhayes]

Originally Posted by BGM-M3COMP

You guys wouldn’t want a 2022 civic si manual over a Ferrari 488 to drive right? I mean the civic is a manual after all right?

Horrible, horrible analogy to make. Worst possible choices.

Yes, for daily driver on the street duties I'll take the SI manual every day all day long. On a track, of course not.

Shawn

[shawnhayes]

Originally Posted by RM7

DCT shifts automatically and doesn't have a third pedal. End of story.

If you are hinging it on having a manual mode...well so does every other auto trans these days.

Doesn't matter what color you paint this horse.

You're WAYYYY off on this.

DCT has IMMEDIATE engagement of gear when shifting. Another entirely different animal. It even feels different. "end of story" is what poorly informed people say when they don't have any information. Will it drive like an automatic? Sure if they've programmed it that way. Doesn't have to. It's still a "manual transmission" with the computer shifting the gears. But a DCT is even a better manual transmission than a regular transmission because it's actually TWO manual transmissions taking turns. The conditions on which you can shift successfully blow away both automatics and single shaft manuals.

It also does NOT cushion shifts because the connection is mechanical. Feels different, and can kill both the transmission and the engine when things go sideways because the wheels are fixed connection mechanically to the gears minimum, and even when the dual clutches have lubrication oil.

Shawn

[RM7]

Originally Posted by shawnhayes

You're WAYYYY off on this.

DCT has IMMEDIATE engagement of gear when shifting. Another entirely different animal. It even feels different. "end of story" is what poorly informed people say when they don't have any information. Will it drive like an automatic? Sure if they've programmed it that way. Doesn't have to. It's still a "manual transmission" with the computer shifting the gears. But a DCT is even a better manual transmission than a regular transmission because it's actually TWO manual transmissions taking turns. The conditions on which you can shift successfully blow away both automatics and single shaft manuals.

It also does NOT cushion shifts because the connection is mechanical. Feels different, and can kill both the transmission and the engine when things go sideways because the wheels are fixed connection mechanically to the gears minimum, and even when the dual clutches have lubrication oil.

Shawn

I've owned a DCT car, thanks.

Can confirm it shifts automatically.

I don't care what flavor of automatic transmission it is.

[shawnhayes]

Originally Posted by RM7

I've owned a DCT car, thanks.

Can confirm it shifts automatically.

Congratulations.

But it isn't a slushbox and never will be. I love my new one in my M5 CS. But it beats that piece of shit I had in my 1967 Ford Fairlaine by leaps and bounds, but it won't shift as well or as fast as the DCT in my 2009 GT-R. And doesn't feel the same. By any means. Either on the street OR on the track.

Shawn