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      09-21-2015, 06:45 AM   #177
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JohnVa1M View Post
FWIW, my CA just called to let me know that his sales manager had just come back from California where, he was learning all about the new 7er and X7. The SM said that factory reps confirmed that production for the M2 will start in April.

I forgot to mention that they also said U.S. production would be limited to 600 cars in 2016 in order to keep demand high. I'm having a hard time believing it but who the hell knows what the truth is anymore.
I think he meant to say that "so supply will not match expected demand". Limiting supply does not increase demand, unless they cease production completely after the first year. Also, I doubt annual demand will be much more than 600/year anyway. At least not in years 2, 3, and so on.
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      09-21-2015, 07:28 AM   #178
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fuddman View Post
Reading between the lines, IMO, your CA is setting you up to charge you MSRP+. And his justification will be the "600 limit" thing - which, according to M division people, is BS. The "limited availability" fiction is a typical ruse employed by dealers to make it easier for their customers to swallow the MSRP+ pill.
In some cases that's probably true but I will be shocked if he does. When I bought my 1M from him, he gave me a $500 discount when I was prepared to pay MSRP. At this dealership, the only car I've ever seen them add markup to is the I8. Regarding the 600 car limit, it's impossible to know if either the U.S. or German reps are telling the truth or whether it's simply a marketing ploy. I know the 1M was supposed to be limited production but I don't recall whether a specific number was forecast.
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      09-21-2015, 08:44 AM   #179
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JohnVa1M View Post
I know the 1M was supposed to be limited production but I don't recall whether a specific number was forecast.
  • # 1Ms planned before launch: 2,700 (worldwide);
  • # 1Ms built: 6,309 (worldwide).
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      09-21-2015, 09:48 AM   #180
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Originally Posted by JohnVa1M View Post
When I bought my 1M from him, he gave me a $500 discount when I was prepared to pay MSRP.
I don't mean to offend you, here; but, $500 off sticker, to me, doesn't indicate negotiations took place. It's more like capitulation. IMO, you start at 10% off sticker.
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      09-21-2015, 10:11 AM   #181
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fuddman View Post
I don't mean to offend you, here; but, $500 off sticker, to me, doesn't indicate negotiations took place. It's more like capitulation. IMO, you start at 10% off sticker.
Good luck with that strategy when there is a line of people waiting for that single monthly allocation.
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      09-21-2015, 01:42 PM   #182
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With any other car, I'd be prepared to negotiate but it was basically a take it or leave it offer with the 1M. There were others in line behind me. I'd be surprised if anyone got even 2 or 3% off on that car.
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      09-21-2015, 03:07 PM   #183
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Artemis
Quote:
Originally Posted by JohnVa1M View Post
I know the 1M was supposed to be limited production but I don't recall whether a specific number was forecast.
  • # 1Ms planned before launch: 2,700 (worldwide);
  • # 1Ms built: 6,309 (worldwide).
US - 740
CANADA -220?
UK - 400

Most of that " world wide , was exactly that."


There were around 366 US BMW DEALERS back in 2010. Each dealer received one car for sure and dealers that sold lots of M cars and/or 1 series models got additional cars.

Not saying it didn't happen but I'm not aware of any US dealer getting more than about 5 allocations for the 1M.
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      09-21-2015, 03:11 PM   #184
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fuddman
Quote:
Originally Posted by JohnVa1M View Post
When I bought my 1M from him, he gave me a $500 discount when I was prepared to pay MSRP.
I don't mean to offend you, here; but, $500 off sticker, to me, doesn't indicate negotiations took place. It's more like capitulation. IMO, you start at 10% off sticker.

When buying a Honda Accord. Yes.
When buying a 320/328/335.. Yes.
When buying a limited production model .. NO.


I don't mean to offend *you* but It's a Sellers market. If the M2 production is in any way limited like the 1M was... You won't be dictating to the dealer.

$500 off on the 1M was a helluva deal.

Getting a car at MSRP was not even normal as many dealers were adding 2k, 5k, 10K and even 20-30K market adjustment on the coasts.

Getting euro delivery MSRP was also rare. ASK ME HOW I KNOW.
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      09-21-2015, 05:52 PM   #185
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Quote:
Originally Posted by M3 Adjuster View Post
When buying a limited production model ..
I guess you've already bought into the fantasy the M2 is a limited production car. It's not. It's a "series car" meaning it going to be produced for a number of years to come. Here is a limited production car and how a limited production car is marketed:http://www.6post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1173192


Quote:
Originally Posted by M3 Adjuster View Post
You won't be dictating to the dealer.
This is the wrong attitude for negotiating, IMO. When it comes to your money, you should always be prepared to dictate.

Quote:
Originally Posted by M3 Adjuster View Post
$500 off on the 1M was a helluva deal.
If you insist on looking at the past as prelude to the future, you're playing right into the dealers hand.


Quote:
Originally Posted by M3 Adjuster View Post
Getting euro delivery MSRP was also rare.
I was offered ED when I put money up for an M2.
Bottom line, with the M2, it's a new ballgame.
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      09-21-2015, 06:03 PM   #186
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The 1M was limited to supply constraint within the 1 year it was produced. They planned for around 60 cars per month at the factory, which fluctuated based on the demand of the regular 1-series and X1. The only country that had a set number of production cars was the UK which was 450. Every car produced for the UK came tagged with its production number 1-450 on it somewhere.
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      09-21-2015, 06:37 PM   #187
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Quote:
I was offered ED when I put money up for an M2.
Bottom line, with the M2, it's a new ballgame.

Sweet. So was I

Let me know what your discount is ;-)
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      09-21-2015, 11:40 PM   #188
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fuddman
Quote:
Originally Posted by M3 Adjuster View Post
When buying a limited production model ..
I guess you've already bought into the fantasy the M2 is a limited production car. It's not. It's a "series car" meaning it going to be produced for a number of years to come. Here is a limited production car and how a limited production car is marketed:http://www.6post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1173192


Quote:
Originally Posted by M3 Adjuster View Post
You won't be dictating to the dealer.
This is the wrong attitude for negotiating, IMO. When it comes to your money, you should always be prepared to dictate.

Quote:
Originally Posted by M3 Adjuster View Post
$500 off on the 1M was a helluva deal.
If you insist on looking at the past as prelude to the future, you're playing right into the dealers hand.


Quote:
Originally Posted by M3 Adjuster View Post
Getting euro delivery MSRP was also rare.
I was offered ED when I put money up for an M2.
Bottom line, with the M2, it's a new ballgame.
As I have stated before, the definition of a Series car is a regular non-M car BMW like a 3 Series or 5 Series. It has nothing to do with length of production.
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      09-22-2015, 01:52 PM   #189
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bim2er View Post
As I have stated before, the definition of a Series car is a regular non-M car BMW like a 3 Series or 5 Series. It has nothing to do with length of production.
How about: Take out "series car," and insert "car without a limited production cycle."
Is that better?
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      09-22-2015, 09:18 PM   #190
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fuddman
Quote:
Originally Posted by bim2er View Post
As I have stated before, the definition of a Series car is a regular non-M car BMW like a 3 Series or 5 Series. It has nothing to do with length of production.
How about: Take out "series car," and insert "car without a limited production cycle."
Is that better?
I believe from previous information and today's LCI information that the F87 M2 will be produced from '16 to '18. As I expect the M2 to be successful, I then believe a successor is likely. So yes, I expect the M2 will be around for some time. One can hope.
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      09-23-2015, 04:17 AM   #191
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bim2er View Post
I believe from previous information and today's LCI information that the F87 M2 will be produced from '16 to '18.
Why only 'til 2018? That would mean the LCI would come out 1 year before production ends. Wouldn't that be a bit odd?
My guess would be that the 2-series as a whole will be built until ~2020 (given the build time of the 1-series coupé). Are there any indications that M2 production will be significantly shorter (besides the later launch date)?
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      09-23-2015, 07:34 AM   #192
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bim2er View Post
I believe from previous information and today's LCI information that the F87 M2 will be produced from '16 to '18. As I expect the M2 to be successful, I then believe a successor is likely. So yes, I expect the M2 will be around for some time. One can hope.
Incorrect. LCI comes out in summer 2017 and production goes until 10/2020 (per the OP of that thread).
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      09-23-2015, 11:43 AM   #193
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sth519 View Post
Why only 'til 2018? That would mean the LCI would come out 1 year before production ends. Wouldn't that be a bit odd?
My guess would be that the 2-series as a whole will be built until ~2020 (given the build time of the 1-series coupé). Are there any indications that M2 production will be significantly shorter (besides the later launch date)?
It should be understood the 1M years of production was sandwiched from and between the first year and last year of the 1 series timeline.

Interestingly, as an example, the E36 was built from 1992-1999 where the M3 was built towards only one end of its 8 year-ish lifespan.

Bmw sandwiching the M2 is sensible because it allows time to usher in something new, and allowing something like a performance version of a Mini platform in between. Kind of like a nice transition or pass.

7 years of the existing 2 series sounds about right. We aren't talking about 1990 500SL, NSX type category where we have 10+ years of plopping them out of the factory.
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      09-23-2015, 11:45 AM   #194
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rcowboy View Post
It should be understood the 1M years of production was sandwiched from and between the first year and last year of the 1 series timeline.

Interestingly, as an example, the E36 was built from 1992-1999 where the M3 was built towards only one end of its 8 year-ish lifespan.

Bmw sandwiching the M2 is sensible because it allows time to usher in something new, and allowing something like a performance version of a Mini platform in between. Kind of like a nice transition or pass.

7 years of the existing 2 series sounds about right. We aren't talking about 1990 500SL, NSX type category where we have 10+ years of plopping them out of the factory.
Not sure I understand? The E36 M3 was built from 1995 to 1999
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      09-23-2015, 11:52 AM   #195
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Quote:
Originally Posted by W/// View Post
Not sure I understand? The E36 M3 was built from 1995 to 1999
Actually, there was a 94 M3 outside of America. Almost bought one a few years ago.

Recall in 92, when the first E36's came out; seeing 17 inch rims for the first time was insanity.
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      09-23-2015, 07:42 PM   #196
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bim2er View Post
I believe from previous information and today's LCI information that the F87 M2 will be produced from '16 to '18. As I expect the M2 to be successful, I then believe a successor is likely. So yes, I expect the M2 will be around for some time. One can hope.
Quote:
Originally Posted by sth519 View Post
Why only 'til 2018? That would mean the LCI would come out 1 year before production ends. Wouldn't that be a bit odd?
My guess would be that the 2-series as a whole will be built until ~2020 (given the build time of the 1-series coupé). Are there any indications that M2 production will be significantly shorter (besides the later launch date)?
Quote:
Originally Posted by W/// View Post
Incorrect. LCI comes out in summer 2017 and production goes until 10/2020 (per the OP of that thread).
Just to clarify for those who don't know what the M2 life cycle impulse (LCI) discussion is about. Here is the source:

Quote:
Originally Posted by ynguldyn View Post
August 2015 Update:
M140i / M240i (MY2017) will add ~15hp compared to the B58 output in non-M-performance cars, similar to what M135i offered above regular x35i models.
Expect Wifi hotspots to become an option in MY2017 1/2/3/4 series cars.
Apple CarPlay is definitely coming in 2016-2017.
OLED will find its way to production models, will be called "BMW Organic Light".
So, to clarify:
2016 M2 - not LCI
2017 230i and M240i - not LCI, just new engines, plus whatever parts BMW adds across the board for the new model year (in this case wifi hotspot)
2018 230i and M240i - LCI with engines introduced a year earlier.
2018 M2 will get new LCI design features in the places that it shares with regular 2er cars. Whether it will also be called LCI, is unknown - BMW is very inconsistent in that regard when it comes to M cars.
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      09-23-2015, 08:56 PM   #197
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Artemis
Quote:
Originally Posted by bim2er View Post
I believe from previous information and today's LCI information that the F87 M2 will be produced from '16 to '18. As I expect the M2 to be successful, I then believe a successor is likely. So yes, I expect the M2 will be around for some time. One can hope.
Quote:
Originally Posted by sth519 View Post
Why only 'til 2018? That would mean the LCI would come out 1 year before production ends. Wouldn't that be a bit odd?
My guess would be that the 2-series as a whole will be built until ~2020 (given the build time of the 1-series coupé). Are there any indications that M2 production will be significantly shorter (besides the later launch date)?
Quote:
Originally Posted by W/// View Post
Incorrect. LCI comes out in summer 2017 and production goes until 10/2020 (per the OP of that thread).
Just to clarify for those who don't know what the M2 life cycle impulse (LCI) discussion is about. Here is the source:

Quote:
Originally Posted by ynguldyn View Post
August 2015 Update:
M140i / M240i (MY2017) will add ~15hp compared to the B58 output in non-M-performance cars, similar to what M135i offered above regular x35i models.
Expect Wifi hotspots to become an option in MY2017 1/2/3/4 series cars.
Apple CarPlay is definitely coming in 2016-2017.
OLED will find its way to production models, will be called "BMW Organic Light".
So, to clarify:
2016 M2 - not LCI
2017 230i and M240i - not LCI, just new engines, plus whatever parts BMW adds across the board for the new model year (in this case wifi hotspot)
2018 230i and M240i - LCI with engines introduced a year earlier.
2018 M2 will get new LCI design features in the places that it shares with regular 2er cars. Whether it will also be called LCI, is unknown - BMW is very inconsistent in that regard when it comes to M cars.
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      10-09-2015, 09:05 PM   #198
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The New Car Sales manager at the BMW Dealer I work for confirmed to me that there
will only be 200 or so M2's sold to Canada. He said it was roughly the same number as the 1M when it was released.

Already Got my name and deposit on the waiting list for the M2
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