[Sure_3]

Hello guys!
I need some advice to get the upgraded 3.5 bar sensors for my 2017 M2.

I would like to buy the Pre-Throttle Tmap sensor and Manifold TMAP sensor

Do you have any recommendations?

Thank you so much!

[F87source]

Originally Posted by Sure_3

Hello guys!
I need some advice to get the upgraded 3.5 bar sensors for my 2017 M2.

I would like to buy the Pre-Throttle Tmap sensor and Manifold TMAP sensor

Do you have any recommendations?

Thank you so much!

Hello,

First off lets start with a few questions and statements:

1) Why do you need a tmap replacment, is your factory ones broken? If not how much boost are you hitting because the oem sensors can read up to 21 PSI.

2) If you're tuning the car and are surpassing 21PSI you only need to replace the prethrottle TMAP sensor on the chargepipe, the manifold sensor does not need to be replaced or upgraded to 3.5 bar. This is because the manifold sensor measures vacuum and is only capable of a positive reading of ~2.7psi, while the prethrottle charge pipe sensor measures boost and is the one that needs to be upgraded if you surpass 21psi.

3) The sensor you will need to buy is an oem 3.5 bar N20/S55 tmap sensor found in the N20 or S55 powered bmws.

Here is a link: https://www.ecstuning.com/b-genuine-...r/13627843531/

There are many other sources for this part as well, including but not limited to the dealer ship. Just make sure you buy an oem part because aftermarket or ebay knock off sensors are garbage imo, and will cause issues with accurate boost readings.

- Also note you require a tune to calibrate the ecu to support the new sensor as the resolution is different and it can also read higher levels of boost.

- Make sure you do more research before buying this part and installing as this part can cause damage to your car if installed improperly.

- I believe on the F series that this sensor is plug and play (it was for my m235i), but just to be safe make sure you don't require an adapter harness.


Good luck.

[Sure_3]

Originally Posted by F87source

Hello,

First off lets start with a few questions and statements:

1) Why do you need a tmap replacment, is your factory ones broken? If not how much boost are you hitting because the oem sensors can read up to 21 PSI.

2) If you're tuning the car and are surpassing 21PSI you only need to replace the prethrottle TMAP sensor on the chargepipe, the manifold sensor does not need to be replaced or upgraded to 3.5 bar. This is because the manifold sensor measures vacuum and is only capable of a positive reading of ~2.7psi, while the prethrottle charge pipe sensor measures boost and is the one that needs to be upgraded if you surpass 21psi.

3) The sensor you will need to buy is an oem 3.5 bar N20/S55 tmap sensor found in the N20 or S55 powered bmws.

Here is a link: https://www.ecstuning.com/b-genuine-...r/13627843531/

There are many other sources for this part as well, including but not limited to the dealer ship. Just make sure you buy an oem part because aftermarket or ebay knock off sensors are garbage imo, and will cause issues with accurate boost readings.

- Also note you require a tune to calibrate the ecu to support the new sensor as the resolution is different and it can also read higher levels of boost.

- Make sure you do more research before buying this part and installing as this part can cause damage to your car if installed improperly.

- I believe on the F series that this sensor is plug and play (it was for my m235i), but just to be safe make sure you don't require an adapter harness.


Good luck.

Thank you so much for the response!
Yes, I'm currently running a Bootmod3 Stage 2 and I want to upgrade the sensors to increase the boost. In the App you can toogle two options related the sensors:

The Pre-Throttle Tmap sensor. You can put this to 3.5 bar
The Manifold TMAP Sensor. You can put this to 3.5 bar too.

So, the Pre-Throttle TMAP Sensor is what are we talking about, and in the flash I will select the 3.5 bar, but, I have doubts about the other setting, the Pre-Throttle Tmap sensor... So I don't know if I can toogle the 3.5 bar in the Manifold Tmap sensor as I can read for your response is only reading the vacuum...

I found this genuine TMAP, do you think that is what I need?

https://www.bimmerworld.com/BMW-Pres...627843531.html

Thank you so much, I really appreciate it.

[Anthony1s]

Compare part numbers. You both linked the same part. You also don't need it unless you are running a bigger turbo. OEM turbo is never gonna run right at those boost levels.

[F87source]

Originally Posted by Sure_3

Thank you so much for the response!
Yes, I'm currently running a Bootmod3 Stage 2 and I want to upgrade the sensors to increase the boost. In the App you can toogle two options related the sensors:

The Pre-Throttle Tmap sensor. You can put this to 3.5 bar
The Manifold TMAP Sensor. You can put this to 3.5 bar too.

So, the Pre-Throttle TMAP Sensor is what are we talking about, and in the flash I will select the 3.5 bar, but, I have doubts about the other setting, the Pre-Throttle Tmap sensor... So I don't know if I can toogle the 3.5 bar in the Manifold Tmap sensor as I can read for your response is only reading the vacuum...

I found this genuine TMAP, do you think that is what I need?

https://www.bimmerworld.com/BMW-Pres...627843531.html

Thank you so much, I really appreciate it.

Like Anthony said 21 psi on the stock turbo is sketchy at best and you'll likely hit it for only a small portion of the lower rpm range. After that the boost will die down quickly.

Also at 21 psi that's way out of the turbos efficiency range and you'll be making a lot of heat, so make sure you have an intercooler.

[Sure_3]

Thank you for the responses!

I'm not planing to upgrade the turbo yet, so I will stay with the stock TMAP sensor.
I currently have intercooler, charge and boost pipes, bootmod3 stage 2, MPerformance exhaust, Catless downpipe and one step colder spark plugs

[F87source]

Originally Posted by Sure_3

Thank you for the responses!

I'm not planing to upgrade the turbo yet, so I will stay with the stock TMAP sensor.
I currently have intercooler, charge and boost pipes, bootmod3 stage 2, MPerformance exhaust, Catless downpipe and one step colder spark plugs

Make sure you have the octane to hit those boost levels. I assumed that would already be a given, but I thought I'd just remind you. At 21 psi you'll probably need 98 octane +, octane as in aki not Ron or mon.

[Sure_3]

Yes, I'm using 98 octane. Thank you!!!

[Anthony1s]

Just to make sure you're clear too. The 3.5bar TMAP sensor doesn't do anything to make more power. It just lets the car read higher PSI.

Think of it like this. A 500lbs person isn't going to be able to use a generic scale you can get at Walmart that only reads up to 400lbs.

Same way our cars can't read higher than 20psi, because the scale (TMAP sensor) can't measure any higher.

[F87source]

Originally Posted by Anthony1s

Just to make sure you're clear too. The 3.5bar TMAP sensor doesn't do anything to make more power. It just lets the car read higher PSI.

Think of it like this. A 500lbs person isn't going to be able to use a generic scale you can get at Walmart that only reads up to 400lbs.

Same way our cars can't read higher than 20psi, because the scale (TMAP sensor) can't measure any higher.

+1

[Nezil]

There is also more potential for erroneous readings with the 3.5bar sensor. The output is an analog voltage from about 0.5v to 4.5v, if you squeeze more bar of dynamic range into that voltage range, the accuracy will drop.

I'm not sure if it's a real issue in practice, but I would say that if you've got no reason to use the higher bar sensor, there is no benefit in doing so, and potentially a negative.

[Nezil]

Originally Posted by F87source

2)the manifold sensor measures vacuum and is only capable of a positive reading of ~2.7psi, while the prethrottle charge pipe sensor measures boost and is the one that needs to be upgraded if you surpass 21psi.

I don't think this is 100% correct. Under WOT then I think you're right. If the throttle is 100% open, the pre and post measurements must agree. Under part throttle however, the manifold sensor is very much measuring boost pressure.

I've tried to bias the pre-throttle sensor to lower boost (as a fail safe), and under part throttle, the manifold sensor reads the correct boost pressure and keeps trying to adjust the throttle plate because the values don't match what's expected.

I guess it's probably true that you only need to replace the pre-throttle, because you'll only see more than 20psi at WOT.

This was just my findings after fiddling with these sensors a bit BTW, I'm not an expert.

[F87source]

Originally Posted by Nezil

I don't think this is 100% correct. Under WOT then I think you're right. If the throttle is 100% open, the pre and post measurements must agree. Under part throttle however, the manifold sensor is very much measuring boost pressure.

I've tried to bias the pre-throttle sensor to lower boost (as a fail safe), and under part throttle, the manifold sensor reads the correct boost pressure and keeps trying to adjust the throttle plate because the values don't match what's expected.

I guess it's probably true that you only need to replace the pre-throttle, because you'll only see more than 20psi at WOT.

This was just my findings after fiddling with these sensors a bit BTW, I'm not an expert.

Interesting, I just remember reading that at one point but I guess it may not be correct then.

All I do know is the MAP sensor doesn't need to be replaced only the TMAP does. I also think theyre both different part numbers as well since the MAP sensor doesn't read temps.

[Nezil]

I hope I didn't offend F87source, I always enjoy reading your posts and your contributions to the community.

The manifold sensor is the exact same part as the pre-throttle sensor, and you're correct that temperature isn't measured there. BMW probably did this for money saving (reducing component count), but they simply don't connect the wire to the temperature sensor output for the manifold sensor.

This is worth knowing because if you end up with a failed temperature sensor in the pre-throttle unit, you can swap it out safely with the manifold one!

[F87source]

Originally Posted by Nezil

I hope I didn't offend F87source, I always enjoy reading your posts and your contributions to the community.

The manifold sensor is the exact same part as the pre-throttle sensor, and you're correct that temperature isn't measured there. BMW probably did this for money saving (reducing component count), but they simply don't connect the wire to the temperature sensor output for the manifold sensor.

This is worth knowing because if you end up with a failed temperature sensor in the pre-throttle unit, you can swap it out safely with the manifold one!

Haha no worries at all man, correct me whenever I'm wrong! And likewise! That is also good to know if you're in a pinch the sensors are the same and can be swapped out, but imo if one sensor is dead then the second one is probably on it's way out as well so it would likely be wise to just change both, but in the mean time like you said the sensors can be swapped if the situation is dire.

Yeah I didn't know that for sure (was going to check real oem but it is past 3am here while I sit and process some data), ok I stand corrected then.

Edit - So according to real oem the MAP sensor is: 13627599042 which is the same on the S55 (m2C, m3, m4) and N20 which again I did not know, but that is weird since that would mean it is a 3 Bar sensor.

The tmap sensor is: 13627599042 which is also the same part number and is also on the S55 and N20 which again is really weird.

So I don't know what is going on.

[Nezil]

Originally Posted by F87source

It is past 3am here while I sit and process some data), ok I stand corrected then.

If it makes you feel any better, I'm in Korea, waiting for a flight to Japan. I arrived here yesterday morning at 4.20am, worked all day Monday and Tuesday, and will be back here on Friday for ~6 hour lay over before I fly home (SF Bay Area) during which time I have to come out of the airport to go to two meetings and then come back again... There is no chance to feel Jet Lag, I just feel like a zombie!

Edit - So according to real oem the MAP sensor is: 13627599042 which is the same on the S55 (m2C, m3, m4) and N20 which again I did not know, but that is weird since that would mean it is a 3 Bar sensor.

The tmap sensor is: 13627599042 which is also the same part number and is also on the S55 and N20 which again is really weird.

So I don't know what is going on.

You're right... 13627599042 is the 2.0 bar sensor found on S55 and N20 engines on the manifold. The higher 3.5 bar is the 13627843531, found on pre-throttle of S55 and N20.

On our cars, and other N55 engines, the 13627599042 is both pre-throttle and post throttle.

[F87source]

Originally Posted by Nezil

If it makes you feel any better, I'm in Korea, waiting for a flight to Japan. I arrived here yesterday morning at 4.20am, worked all day Monday and Tuesday, and will be back here on Friday for ~6 hour lay over before I fly home (SF Bay Area) during which time I have to come out of the airport to go to two meetings and then come back again... There is no chance to feel Jet Lag, I just feel like a zombie!


You're right... 13627599042 is the 2.0 bar sensor found on S55 and N20 engines on the manifold. The higher 3.5 bar is the 13627843531, found on pre-throttle of S55 and N20.

On our cars, and other N55 engines, the 13627599042 is both pre-throttle and post throttle.

Oh dang that's rough.

I see, yeah it's hard to think at 3, so it's not a mistake. But then that's a bit weird because if the S55 uses a 2 bar sensor on the manifold how does it read boost there? Leading to the thought that it just there for vaccum.

[Nezil]

Originally Posted by F87source

Oh dang that's rough.

I see, yeah it's hard to think at 3, so it's not a mistake. But then that's a bit weird because if the S55 uses a 2 bar sensor on the manifold how does it read boost there? Leading to the thought that it just there for vaccum.

I think, but I'm not sure, that the manifold sensor is only used at part throttle conditions. For WOT, the pressure will be the same in both sensors, so you only need one, and the pre-throttle suffices.

At part throttle, and you can see this if you log both sensor readings, the throttle being partly closed restricts airflow and therefore lowers pressure in the manifold. In this case, it's the pressure in the manifold that's important for engine management, and not the pressure in the charge pipe.

If you log the pressure in the charge pipe when cruising, it will be higher than in the manifold because the turbo is still providing some, though minimal, boost. The throttle plate then does the job of controlling this air-flow and boost pressure to get the load needed... using the manifold pressure sensor for this.

[F87source]

Originally Posted by Nezil

I think, but I'm not sure, that the manifold sensor is only used at part throttle conditions. For WOT, the pressure will be the same in both sensors, so you only need one, and the pre-throttle suffices.

At part throttle, and you can see this if you log both sensor readings, the throttle being partly closed restricts airflow and therefore lowers pressure in the manifold. In this case, it's the pressure in the manifold that's important for engine management, and not the pressure in the charge pipe.

If you log the pressure in the charge pipe when cruising, it will be higher than in the manifold because the turbo is still providing some, though minimal, boost. The throttle plate then does the job of controlling this air-flow and boost pressure to get the load needed... using the manifold pressure sensor for this.

Hmm I see, yeah I didn't know that since I never log or look at the map sensor.

Well thanks for the clarification!

[ZM2]

Hey guys.

Digging this back up, we’re starting to hit above 21psi on my custom tune.

I’m still waiting to hear from Halim that he wants to change this out based on our tune strategy, but if so, I just want to clarify that I need to change my TMAP with 13627843531, correct?

If so, looks like FCP Euro has a good deal on the VDO: https://www.fcpeuro.com/products/bmw...or-13627843531

Thanks.

[ZM2]

Halim at PTF confirmed 13627843531 is the part, and only the Pre-Throttle TMAP is needed. Going to order one up now!

[seanyx11]

Originally Posted by ZM2

Halim at PTF confirmed 13627843531 is the part, and only the Pre-Throttle TMAP is needed. Going to order one up now!

[QUOTE=Nezil;25324285]

I just ordered one of these myself to get ready for the inevitable need to read over 21psi with the Pure stage 2 turbo coming in a few weeks. Just had a Dorch stage 2 HPFP & Fuel It stage 2 LPFP & Bluetooth ethanol analyzer installed, so I'm ready for more boost