[Fabspeed Motorsport]

Hello all,
I want thank Xutvjet for his passion. If anyone has had a federal issue with their sport cat on their vehicle I would love to hear about their experience.

We use the HJS sport cats for our sport cat downpipes. Designed with a 200-cell HJS catalytic converter core for maximum performance and reliability; same cat core used on our Ferrari 458 Italia applications! You can add +21whp +36tq (ft/lbs).

I do want to reiterate that we do not have any problem passing emissions testing in 49 out of the 50 states and the sniffer test in the 50th state (sorry California).

[Happy Motoring]

Originally Posted by PiK

Just received my HJS downpipe. Are you guys replacing clamps and a gasket ring for a new ones?

http://www.realoem.com/bmw/enUS/show...diagId=18_1203
02 Screw clamp 1 18307606136
03 Gasket ring 1 18307581970
04 Screw clamp 1 18307620349

Originally Posted by Fabspeed Motorsport

You don't "have to" but it is a good preventative measure.

Does the Fabspeed sport cat not come with new clamps?
I've been told these are one time use.

[David1]

You reuse what you have.

[stefan]

Originally Posted by David1

You reuse what you have.

No. The metal gasket is clearly one time use. It conforms to the outlet of your new dp.

[David1]

I reused the brass gasket. Its just a bitch to work with it. You can use it over and over and over.

[Who?]

jesus, just went to BMW parts, they charged me 60$ aud for the gasket!...

goign to try and reuse if possible so i can return it haha..

[Nezil]

Just to finish up my story... I returned from vacation on Thursday to find my Fabspeed Sport Cat waiting for me at home. I'd sent it back to them the day before I left to minimise the time my car would be out of action.

Struggling with Jet Lag, I woke up earlier than intended this morning and re-fitted the now fixed Sport Cat back to my car. Installation was a bit easier now that the bracket lines up because you can use the bracket fitted loosely to take the weight of the down pipe while you line up the turbo flange and V clamp.

I've now removed and re-fitted the down pipe three times, so I've got pretty good at it. All times were done on jack stands like this:

I was fortunate because I self installed, and because I was going on vacation. Overall though I think Fabspeed handled the issue well. Yes it was frustrating but these things happen and in my case they proactively reached out and fixed the issue.

[Nezil]

With all of the talk of replacing gaskets and clamps, I think it's important to point out that the stiffening plate bolts, which need to be removed if you're changing the down pipe, have a torque rating of 56 Nm + 90 degrees.

This sort of bolt is known as a 'Torque to Yield' bolt, and is designed to stretch slightly, which gives a more even and accurate tension to the bolt than simply torquing can apply. It does however mean that the bolts cannot safely be re-used.

I'm not sure quite why BMW decided to use these type of bolts, but they clearly do stretch. I re-used a set of bolts 3 times, and each time found it increasingly difficult to achieve the 90 degree angle after the first torque wrench setting; clearly the bolts had no more stretch left in them.

I also found that screwing the bolts into the threaded parts of the chassis became increasingly difficult, almost like they were cross threaded. This was presumably because the stretch had occurred to part of the threaded section of the bolt.

The last two times I used all new bolts, and everything went back together very easily and torqued up followed by 90 degrees very well.

There is a reason BMW says these bolts must be replaced every time...

[Nezil]

I was asked on another thread for the torque settings for the nuts and bolts required for the DP install, so here they are, taken from ISTA+:

• Underbody panelling (self tapping screws): 3 Nm
• Downpipe to Exhaust V Band Clamp (Should be replaced): 30 Nm
• Downpipe to Turbo V Band Clamp (Should be replaced): 13 Nm
• Exhaust system mid point mount to cross member (E10 Bolts): 28 Nm
• Stiffening Plate to Front Axle (Should replace all bolts - see post above): 56 Nm + 90 degrees
• Downpipe mounting bracket: 28 Nm
• Oxygen Sensors: 50 Nm

I think that's everything. Let me know if there is something I missed.

[KevM2]

Originally Posted by Nezil

I was asked on another thread for the torque settings for the nuts and bolts required for the DP install, so here they are, taken from ISTA+:

• Underbody panelling (self tapping screws): 3 Nm
• Downpipe to Exhaust V Band Clamp (Should be replaced): 30 Nm
• Downpipe to Turbo V Band Clamp (Should be replaced): 13 Nm
• Exhaust system mid point mount to cross member (E10 Bolts): 28 Nm
• Stiffening Plate to Front Axle (Should replace all bolts - see post above): 56 Nm + 90 degrees
• Downpipe mounting bracket: 28 Nm
• Oxygen Sensors: 50 Nm

I think that's everything. Let me know if there is something I missed.

Great! Thanks for these. The only one I'm not sure which one it is is the one you call "stiffening plate to front axle". Interestingly I found this guide for Akrapovic and all the values are different for some reason:

https://d1sfhav1wboke3.cloudfront.ne...c329e97cb8.pdf

[Nezil]

Originally Posted by KevM2

Great! Thanks for these. The only one I'm not sure which one it is is the one you call "stiffening plate to front axle". Interestingly I found this guide for Akrapovic and all the values are different for some reason:

https://d1sfhav1wboke3.cloudfront.ne...c329e97cb8.pdf

Stiffening plate to front axle are the eight bolts that hold the aluminum plate that is under the engine. I talk about these in my post above the torque settings.

[KevM2]

Originally Posted by Nezil

Stiffening plate to front axle are the eight bolts that hold the aluminum plate that is under the engine. I talk about these in my post above the torque settings.

Ok good to know! Just seems like so much torque for something like that. It's because of these little details about correct torque and not reusing stretch bolts that I like doing it myself instead of some shop

[Who?]

Originally Posted by Fabspeed Motorsport

Hello all

Hey mate, just recieved the downpipe, just want to confirm the downpipe has the newer flange before i spend half a day this weekend trying to fit it

Pics below

[Who?]

Originally Posted by KevM2

Ok good to know! Just seems like so much torque for something like that. It's because of these little details about correct torque and not reusing stretch bolts that I like doing it myself instead of some shop

Hey mate, what did you use to torque correctly? Ive got a wrench, but seeing the pics. It all seems very cramped up there

Ive got one of these, but doubtful itll be any use here
http://www.supercheapauto.com.au/Product/ToolPro-Torque-Wrench-3-8-Drive/214304

[stefan]

Originally Posted by Nezil

I was asked on another thread for the torque settings for the nuts and bolts required for the DP install, so here they are, taken from ISTA+:

• Underbody panelling (self tapping screws): 3 Nm
• Downpipe to Exhaust V Band Clamp (Should be replaced): 30 Nm
• Downpipe to Turbo V Band Clamp (Should be replaced): 13 Nm
• Exhaust system mid point mount to cross member (E10 Bolts): 28 Nm
• Stiffening Plate to Front Axle (Should replace all bolts - see post above): 56 Nm + 90 degrees
• Downpipe mounting bracket: 28 Nm
• Oxygen Sensors: 50 Nm

I think that's everything. Let me know if there is something I missed.

These torque specs are way too low for vband clamps IMO. I am not sure on what planet 13 Nm will stay tight enough with an aftermarket downpipe at the turbo vband clamp.

[KevM2]

Originally Posted by Who?

Hey mate, what did you use to torque correctly? Ive got a wrench, but seeing the pics. It all seems very cramped up there

Ive got one of these, but doubtful itll be any use here
http://www.supercheapauto.com.au/Pro...8-Drive/214304

I will be doing the install next week and I was hoping I could use the same type of torque wrench with some long extensions but maybe it won't work?

Originally Posted by Nezil

Stiffening plate to front axle are the eight bolts that hold the aluminum plate that is under the engine. I talk about these in my post above the torque settings.

What kind of a torquing device did you use? Wondering if id be able to use a regular torque wrench with long extensions to get to some of the bolts, specially the clamp to turbo end :

[KevM2]

Originally Posted by stefan

These torque specs are way too low for vband clamps IMO. I am not sure on what planet 13 Nm will stay tight enough with an aftermarket downpipe at the turbo vband clamp.

That 13Nm value has also been mentioned by another member somewhere else on this forum but I was wondering about that too. What would you think is a better torque? If the one towards exhausts is 30Nm then perhaps that's a good value for the turbo end too?

[stefan]

Originally Posted by KevM2

That 13Nm value has also been mentioned by another member somewhere else on this forum but I was wondering about that too. What would you think is a better torque? If the one towards exhausts is 30Nm then perhaps that's a good value for the turbo end too?

I am pretty anal about preventing exhaust leaks. For me a vband clamp should be as tight as possible by hand with a wrench sort of thing. The tighter it is, the closer it draws the two bell ends together.

[Nezil]

I have two torque wrenchs, both are click type and both were purchased in England because I could only find primarily Ft-lb wrenches in the US. BMWs are European, and the original specs are always therefore Nm not Ft-lb so I prefer a wrench that is primarily Nm rather than Ft-lb; not that it actually makes a difference!

So I have a 1/2" drive one that has a 30 ~ 210 Nm range, which I use for thinks like lug nuts, and a smaller 3/8" unit that has a 10 ~ 80 Nm range that I use for almost everything.

The 3/8" wrench did fit in the space for the top clamp, but it was tight. My wrench is cheap so the ratchet is pretty crap. It would only move one click at a time in the space available.

The top clamp is almost springy, so achieving 13 Nm takes quite a few turns. I did end up doing it tighter by accident because the click on my torque wrench at 13 Nm was so quiet that I didn't hear or feel it. Having said that I do think 13 Nm would be fine for this clamp because of the type of material etc. It's not designed to take the weight of the downpipe, only hold the faces together so it doesn't need to be tight. The torque settings I posted are from ISTA+, I didn't make them up, they are BMWs specs!

I also did the bottom downpipe to exhaust to 30 Nm, and that's really very tight for a V band clamp. The aluminum shaped washers were shedding fillings as I did it up because it was so tight. I torqued to speed, but it felt a little too tight to me.

[stefan]

Originally Posted by Nezil

I also did the bottom downpipe to exhaust to 30 Nm, and that's really very tight for a V band clamp. The aluminum shaped washers were shedding fillings as I did it up because it was so tight. I torqued to speed, but it felt a little too tight to me.

Did you crush the metal gasket? I found it too tight as well then realized I need to get the gasket crushed/formed to the new DP. Depending on how you set it up, it could be easy or hard to tighten it. I switched it out for a brand new one and found it much easier to tighten. I probably went somewhere around 40lb-ft. 30Nm is only 20lb-ft and I think that would have left a noticeable gap still.

[KevM2]

Originally Posted by stefan

Did you crush the metal gasket? I found it too tight as well then realized I need to get the gasket crushed/formed to the new DP. Depending on how you set it up, it could be easy or hard to tighten it. I switched it out for a brand new one and found it much easier to tighten. I probably went somewhere around 40lb-ft. 30Nm is only 20lb-ft and I think that would have left a noticeable gap still.

Now I'm getting paranoid about too lose of a bolt and leaving gaps. I'm anal about torque specs and not leaving anything lose... what's the easiest way to determine that there are no leaks after?

[stefan]

Originally Posted by KevM2

Now I'm getting paranoid about too lose of a bolt and leaving gaps. I'm anal about torque specs and not leaving anything lose... what's the easiest way to determine that there are no leaks after?

Start it cold and put your face near it basically. It will be obvious. Ultimately visual inspection near the part not covered by the vband also helps.