[GeeRam]

Originally Posted by Red Bread

Some comical ignorance of BMW's history with four cylinders in here.

And how can BMW building a four cylinder make someone sad? Their headquarters are shaped like a four cylinder and the first M3 was a four cylinder.

Indeed.

This vid maybe aimed at a low level of petrolheadness, but in terms of BMW 4 cyl history, it's a good history snapshot

[GeeRam]

Originally Posted by SCOTT26

Even though my reaction to the M4 is that you can feel the difference and more so than the E92. The car cocoons you that you do not believe you are driving a mid sized car.

Well, I guess that statement now pinpoints your nationality.....if you seriously think the M4 is a mid-size car

For those of us from this side of the big pond without lots of free space, the 4 Series is bloody enormous - and simply too big.

When looking to buy the 135, I did consider a E92 M3 because of the laughably attractive financial incentives on offer from BMW for the M3 compared to the 135.....

But..........the crippling running costs compared to the 135 combined with the size of the M3 meant the 135 was the only real choice.

With the increased size of the M235 combined with ghastly electric steering and no DCT option, means BMW will not be making a car in the future that will be a suitable replacement for the 135.

That's sad for me, personally, but I understand my criteria for a car is now a very small minority sales market and one BMW are no longer interested in.

Unfortunately, nor is any other manufacturer

[M.barnes]

Originally Posted by GeeRam

Well, I guess that statement now pinpoints your nationality.....if you seriously think the M4 is a mid-size car

For those of us from this side of the big pond without lots of free space, the 4 Series is bloody enormous - and simply too big.

When looking to buy the 135, I did consider a E92 M3 because of the laughably attractive financial incentives on offer from BMW for the M3 compared to the 135.....

But..........the crippling running costs compared to the 135 combined with the size of the M3 meant the 135 was the only real choice.

With the increased size of the M235 combined with ghastly electric steering and no DCT option, means BMW will not be making a car in the future that will be a suitable replacement for the 135.

That's sad for me, personally, but I understand my criteria for a car is now a very small minority sales market and one BMW are no longer interested in.

Unfortunately, nor is any other manufacturer

Have you driven the sports auto? It would be a shame to write it off as not as good as 5+ year old dct tech.

We have had the sports auto for a while in the m135i in England and Chris Harris thought it WAS dct first time of driving.

Not saying it's for everyone but don't write it off just yet.

[GeeRam]

Originally Posted by M.barnes

Have you driven the sports auto?

Yup, driven a M135 with the ZF auto.

As far as slush-boxes go, it's brilliant.

But after having DCT, it's a step backwards for me (DCT tech now being 'reserved' only for ///M range says it all) but, that's a big mistake by BMW IMHO.

Electric steering was horrid as well.....very fast & direct, but devoid of any feel

[bradleyland]

Originally Posted by HBspeed

Well I think the point was if the car was physically too small for a 6-cylinder... I mean a modern Miata weighs probably 400-500 lbs. less than the M2 will weight, and that's with a heavy convertible system and without the use of any high-tech materials.

I totally agree. I was just giving you a hard time about the "no one will complain" comment. We are on the internet, after all

[snipe]

Originally Posted by BimmerMat135

A poll was made about it and 84% prefer to have a 6cyl in the M2 and if I remember well over 55% consider the 4cyl as a deal breaker. So I don't think BMW really care about what their potential buyers want they just try to impose us their way of thinking.

Have you ever been in Munich? BMW's headquarters are built in the form of a 4cyl. How can you ever be surprised when they use such an engine in their cars?

[Advevo]

Originally Posted by SCOTT26

I am pretty sure that if BMW delivers a four cylinder which not only meets expectations of power delivery but also exceeding lighter weight challenges to provide pin-sharp precision. That is what M are now focusing on , not numbers.
That is the goal.

M2 would not only be a car not only worthy of success. But a car that also defines the M Division and embarrasses its competitors.

The M2 is not the only compact strategy within BMW they have to compete in.
The Compact high performance SUV segment is becoming significant and BMW M need a car in this segment.
The new X1 cannot accept six cylinders so it has to be a four.

But M2 will still find buyers even if its not you.

X1M 4cil or Q3RS 5cil.

Q3RS 5cil anytime.

I have gone from a V6 mercedes vito to vw transporter 4 banger for my company. It was the most stupid choice ever. V6 vito was so much better!!!!

Go drive the 4 banger A45 AMG it pops an bangs and have turbo lag. The 6 cil is so much better for smoothnes an torque.

I have bought 2 bmw 1M coupe s because i was in doubt if bmw brings again such a fantastic car again. So i can go some years ahead to enjoy my fun in driving and spend my money elsewhere if the M2 does not get a 6 cil engine.

[Red Bread]

Originally Posted by snipe

Have you ever been in Munich? BMW's headquarters are built in the form of a 4cyl. How can you ever be surprised when they use such an engine in their cars?

Don't let logic get in the way. If the poll had been an open engine format, the majority of folks would have picked a Veyron engine or a turbine. History and logic have little to do with internet car poll results.

[Red Bread]

Originally Posted by Advevo

I have bought 2 bmw 1M coupe s because i was in doubt if bmw brings again such a fantastic car again. So i can go some years ahead to enjoy my fun in driving and spend my money elsewhere if the M2 does not get a 6 cil engine.

It's amusing that an engine that was decried as not a true M engine and a pity that it had such a low redline and turbos is now something people are wistful for. I like the 1M, but it's funny how many people have decided a four cylinder M2 is horrible when no one has driven it yet.

[Advevo]

They use 1.6 turbo engine in WRC cars but without anti lag system you wil have massive turbo lag. Try anti lag in a street car and you're turbo and exhaust system wil be broke in notime.

For daily (fun use) a 6 cil with low boost gives so much more.

[BimmerMat135]

Originally Posted by snipe

Have you ever been in Munich? BMW's headquarters are built in the form of a 4cyl. How can you ever be surprised when they use such an engine in their cars?

I have no problems with bmw using 4cyl in cars like the 114i or the 118i or even the 220i but when I pay 60K$ I want something special not and higher output version of cheaper car engine. the CLA45AMG is 49K$ and offer awd standart. Bmw want to make me pay 10K$ more for the same number of cylinder and 2 less wheel drive it is better to be damn good. As the 2 serie is an heavy car to start with and that the M2 will be the entry level M car I don`t expect a super lightweight car. I am pretty sure that they will keep most of the CFRP parts for the M3/M4. So 3250lbs 4cyl with what 330-340hp?? It doesn`t worth 60000$ in my book. I much prefer to have a 3400lbs 6cyl with 370-380hp that sound good, that is flexible to drive daily, that have alot of torque and almost no turbo lag, that is more reliable on the long term.

[snipe]

Originally Posted by BimmerMat135

I have no problems with bmw using 4cyl in cars like the 114i or the 118i or even the 220i but when I pay 60K$ I want something special not and higher output version of cheaper car engine. the CLA45AMG is 49K$ and offer awd standart. Bmw want to make me pay 10K$ more for the same number of cylinder and 2 less wheel drive it is better to be damn good. As the 2 serie is an heavy car to start with and that the M2 will be the entry level M car I don`t expect a super lightweight car. I am pretty sure that they will keep most of the CFRP parts for the M3/M4. So 3250lbs 4cyl with what 330-340hp?? It doesn`t worth 60000$ in my book. I much prefer to have a 3400lbs 6cyl with 370-380hp that sound good, that is flexible to drive daily, that have alot of torque and almost no turbo lag, that is more reliable on the long term.

Of course the Mercedes has AWD, because the A-Class is normally a FWD-model. The BMW on the other hand has RWD, so there's no need to make it heavier only for more grip and less fun.

Don't get me wrong, I like the R6 much, very much. Actually, I own two BMW's with 6 cylinders. But I had lots of fun when I drove a 2002 last week, which had (of course) only 4 cilinders. The fun is not in the number of cylinders.

[Red Bread]

Originally Posted by snipe

Of course the Mercedes has AWD, because the A-Class is normally a FWD-model. The BMW on the other hand has RWD, so there's no need to make it heavier only for more grip and less fun.

Don't get me wrong, I like the R6 much, very much. Actually, I own two BMW's with 6 cylinders. But I had lots of fun when I drove a 2002 last week, which had (of course) only 4 cilinders. The fun is not in the number of cylinders.

Well said. Prior to the N54, nearly all BMW folks were content with naturally aspirated straight sixes. Now the N20 makes more torque than nearly all of those motors ever did, and a tuned version of it, or even better, a bespoke four cylinder would be a great fit for a lighter, edgier 2er.

The 1M fixed a lot of what was lacking in the E82 by splicing in E9x M3 parts. Hopefully the F22 isn't as needing and provides a more unique platform for making a car that isn't just a 7/8th scale M4, which seems like what many people would prefer to a car with its own personality.

[bradleyland]

Originally Posted by snipe

Of course the Mercedes has AWD, because the A-Class is normally a FWD-model. The BMW on the other hand has RWD, so there's no need to make it heavier only for more grip and less fun.

Don't get me wrong, I like the R6 much, very much. Actually, I own two BMW's with 6 cylinders. But I had lots of fun when I drove a 2002 last week, which had (of course) only 4 cilinders. The fun is not in the number of cylinders.

[BMW269]

Originally Posted by BimmerMat135

I have no problems with bmw using 4cyl in cars like the 114i or the 118i or even the 220i but when I pay 60K$ I want something special not and higher output version of cheaper car engine. the CLA45AMG is 49K$ and offer awd standart. Bmw want to make me pay 10K$ more for the same number of cylinder and 2 less wheel drive it is better to be damn good. As the 2 serie is an heavy car to start with and that the M2 will be the entry level M car I don`t expect a super lightweight car. I am pretty sure that they will keep most of the CFRP parts for the M3/M4. So 3250lbs 4cyl with what 330-340hp?? It doesn`t worth 60000$ in my book. I much prefer to have a 3400lbs 6cyl with 370-380hp that sound good, that is flexible to drive daily, that have alot of torque and almost no turbo lag, that is more reliable on the long term.

The same can be said about the M3/M4 and its I6 compared to others with V8.

[HBspeed]

Originally Posted by snipe

Of course the Mercedes has AWD, because the A-Class is normally a FWD-model. The BMW on the other hand has RWD, so there's no need to make it heavier only for more grip and less fun.

Don't get me wrong, I like the R6 much, very much. Actually, I own two BMW's with 6 cylinders. But I had lots of fun when I drove a 2002 last week, which had (of course) only 4 cilinders. The fun is not in the number of cylinders.

A 2002 is significantly smaller in size and a massively lighter vehicle than the M2 will be.

The M5 used to have a 6-cylinder and was a lot of fun. That doesn't mean a modern M5 should have a 6-cylinder as well... regardless of the modern M5's huge size and weight increase over the E28 and E34 M5 models.

[Red Bread]

Originally Posted by HBspeed

A 2002 is significantly smaller in size and a massively lighter vehicle than the M2 will be.

The M5 used to have a 6-cylinder and was a lot of fun. That doesn't mean a modern M5 should have a 6-cylinder as well... regardless of the modern M5's huge size and weight increase over the E28 and E34 M5 models.

Just to counter the 5er argument, it's not really our fault that BMW is getting lazy and basing things off the fat 7er chassis. Cadillac has proven that you can still make a reasonably light car in that size class and with not much more power than the still portly E39 M5 with a V8 from fifteen years ago, they've managed to build a lighter, faster and cheaper car, the CTS V-Sport, with a six cylinder. It will be interesting to see what the full V model is like.

I do agree that creating a modern 2002 or even E21 or E30 is much harder to do today because of modern safety and technology expectations, but just because BMW has gone the route of porky cars doesn't mean the M GmbH folks aren't at least partially trying to offset that.

[Mark's M]

Originally Posted by Greg007

Design renderings of a potential M2 are great!

First of all, if an M2 comes out it is gonna cost too much ($60K CAD).

Second, if it is an i4 (instead of the beloved i6) then not good.

A CDN M2 @ 60k??? Greg my friend you've lost your mind lol. A loaded M235 here already comes in at that figure. And if you've not yet enquired, a nicely jammed M3 or M4 will set us back somewhere in the mid to high 90's. Should the M2 come to fruition, it'll land in Canada somewhere between 70-75k fairly well optioned.

[ozinaldo]

Originally Posted by Red Bread

Well said. Prior to the N54, nearly all BMW folks were content with naturally aspirated straight sixes. Now the N20 makes more torque than nearly all of those motors ever did, and a tuned version of it, or even better, a bespoke four cylinder would be a great fit for a lighter, edgier 2er.

The 1M fixed a lot of what was lacking in the E82 by splicing in E9x M3 parts. Hopefully the F22 isn't as needing and provides a more unique platform for making a car that isn't just a 7/8th scale M4, which seems like what many people would prefer to a car with its own personality.

Sharing parts with M3 (or with 135i) did not really prevent the 1M from having its own personality though; pretty much the contrary, it has abundant amounts of what you call as personality which obviously has more to do with how M division mixes its sorcery and puts things together rather than numbers or high-tech bespoke production pieces.

Like our kids have our DNA but they can hopefully have their own personality as well, to the point that we would prefer otherwise...thing

M2 will be a great car as long as it delivers and produces fun a la 1M; the issue is most people believe that it will be substantially more difficult to achieve that with a turboed four cylinder while I prefer to wait and see how things will round up, in the case of M Division building a small M car (which is essentially all I care for) I prefer to be optimistic (as my Avatar suggests) but this time I am rather cautious.

[The Automotive Enthusiast]

For me, it comes down to how much the car is going to weight. I welcome a turbo four, less weight up front. Probably picking up a 320xi as 'fun daily'. Any news on when we'd see the M2?

[dmboone25]

Originally Posted by Rev ///Me

For me, it comes down to how much the car is going to weight. I welcome a turbo four, less weight up front. Probably picking up a 320xi as 'fun daily'. Any news on when we'd see the M2?

I think the prevailing thought is that we will see it in 1.5-2 years...hopefully sooner, but that time frame has been hinted at.

[Advevo]

The 1M are still going strong so i can wait an other 2 years for the M2. In the meantime i am not going to blow my money on the M3/M4.