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      08-25-2017, 07:43 PM   #573
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Originally Posted by Artemis View Post
Quite logical, as it's still too early to fasten your seatbelt. Still a few months of patience.

Looks like it.

I do wonder if the M2 GTS is still on. If BMW was thinking about doing it by 2019, we should have seen some mules by now or within the next few months seeing that the M2 CS mules have been here a year and the car is expected to be available next year (2 years from sighting).

Also what is disheartening is that about 6 months ago, there was still hope that the new M2 would wear the CSL badge but it looks like that dream will continue to be just that... a dream.
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      08-25-2017, 08:18 PM   #574
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Originally Posted by Gatte View Post
I do wonder if the M2 GTS is still on. If BMW was thinking about doing it by 2019, we should have seen some mules by now or within the next few months seeing that the M2 CS mules have been here a year and the car is expected to be available next year (2 years from sighting).
Valid point.

Let's keep hoping that an M2 GTS sees the light before the first generation M2 end of production date (thus before 2020) instead of remaining just an automotive pipe dream.
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      08-26-2017, 05:49 AM   #575
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Quote:
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Artemis View Post
Quite logical, as it's still too early to fasten your seatbelt. Still a few months of patience.

Looks like it.

I do wonder if the M2 GTS is still on. If BMW was thinking about doing it by 2019, we should have seen some mules by now or within the next few months seeing that the M2 CS mules have been here a year and the car is expected to be available next year (2 years from sighting).

Also what is disheartening is that about 6 months ago, there was still hope that the new M2 would wear the CSL badge but it looks like that dream will continue to be just that... a dream.
I worry too.

I know so post about this a bit (especially in the uk section as I try to help folks get into an M2) but the abundance in the uk of so many M2s now make it seem like another standard series M3/4/5/6. I wonder how well it has done sales vs expectations.. It needs to succeed at each level for a top level car to get the green light. M2 base, M2 Performance editions, M2CS...
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      08-26-2017, 06:23 AM   #576
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.....but the abundance in the uk of so many M2s now make it seem like another standard series M3/4/5/6. I wonder how well it has done sales vs expectations.......
How Many Left https://www.howmanyleft.co.uk/?utf8=...&commit=Search suggests around 1150 registered or SORNed at end of Q1.

3 times as many than 1Ms in half the production time. So I would say it's been successful. How many this will go up to with the pre-regs this quarter. Who knows.

Still rare beast on the roads. Don't see many. Seen more RS3 hatches.

M4 results interesting. Such a high percentage of DCT. https://www.howmanyleft.co.uk/?utf8=✓&q=bmw+m4
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      08-26-2017, 03:51 PM   #577
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Originally Posted by as7920 View Post
How Many Left https://www.howmanyleft.co.uk/?utf8=...&commit=Search suggests around 1150 registered or SORNed at end of Q1.

3 times as many than 1Ms in half the production time. So I would say it's been successful. How many this will go up to with the pre-regs this quarter. Who knows.

Still rare beast on the roads. Don't see many. Seen more RS3 hatches.

M4 results interesting. Such a high percentage of DCT. https://www.howmanyleft.co.uk/?utf8=✓&q=bmw+m4
Every single time someone on this forum says they see many m2s just sitting on lots it's someone from the UK. So that seems to be the single market where people don't want them or they made WAY too many for that market.
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      08-26-2017, 09:20 PM   #578
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Not sure why people say this will cost $80k as if it were fact. It's all speculation at this point, but that seems WAY too high. I expect it will start somewhere in between the current M2 and the current M3 (which starts at $65k). Unless it is very limited production, pricing above the M3 just doesn't make sense. You get less car, worse materials, no carbon fiber roof, and a detuned engine. Sure, a few enthusiasts may pay a premium for a smaller car, but that's generally not how these cars are priced. Why bother detuning the engine if you are going to charge more than an M3? On paper, this competes with an RS3, so my guess is also $60k base price. If they announce more goodies, perhaps it can go up from there, but no way $80k!
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      08-26-2017, 10:59 PM   #579
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The Porsche GT4 was pretty much in the same boat.

911 3.8 engine but detuned. Upgraded chassis and suspension from GT3. Smaller better balanced car.

Priced about the same as a 911S which shares the same engine.

But look at what street prices the GT4 commanded.

The grapevine suggests the 718 GT4 will now have a bigger premium so that may be where the M2CS ends up
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      08-26-2017, 11:20 PM   #580
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fenerbahce View Post
Not sure why people say this will cost $80k as if it were fact. It's all speculation at this point, but that seems WAY too high. I expect it will start somewhere in between the current M2 and the current M3 (which starts at $65k). Unless it is very limited production, pricing above the M3 just doesn't make sense. You get less car, worse materials, no carbon fiber roof, and a detuned engine. Sure, a few enthusiasts may pay a premium for a smaller car, but that's generally not how these cars are priced. Why bother detuning the engine if you are going to charge more than an M3? On paper, this competes with an RS3, so my guess is also $60k base price. If they announce more goodies, perhaps it can go up from there, but no way $80k!
I'm IN at 60k (and manual of course) !!!!! I will even pay to have it custom painted afterwards at that price. The supposed color options are not tickling my fancy! I hope you are right!!

p.s. I have read ...MOST if not ALL of the CS rumors, here and on many websites claiming to have new info. I think the consensus is that if the car is 80k, lots of people will look elsewhere. I dont think anyone thinks it is worth 80k(we dont even know anything about it). I for one will not pay 80k unless they do some jaw dropping improvements. I am interested around 65-70 tops if it checks the correct boxes (cf roof, brakes, suspension, +400hp, NO WING, better tires)
I would be happy to see 60, but expecting 65-70k(usd)
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      08-27-2017, 01:42 AM   #581
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Quote:
Originally Posted by akkando View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by as7920 View Post
How Many Left https://www.howmanyleft.co.uk/?utf8=...&commit=Search suggests around 1150 registered or SORNed at end of Q1.

3 times as many than 1Ms in half the production time. So I would say it's been successful. How many this will go up to with the pre-regs this quarter. Who knows.

Still rare beast on the roads. Don't see many. Seen more RS3 hatches.

M4 results interesting. Such a high percentage of DCT. https://www.howmanyleft.co.uk/?utf8=✓&q=bmw+m4
Every single time someone on this forum says they see many m2s just sitting on lots it's someone from the UK. So that seems to be the single market where people don't want them or they made WAY too many for that market.
Sadly the UK car industry has been shifting volume just to help keep the factory busy. Most are on finance which is a debt bubble waiting to burst. BMW has been a big player with ridiculous discounting which has hurt second hand values. Depreciation on many BMW models has been savage of late and it is a business model that is not sustainable

Cash buyers are now holding off changing because of poor trade in values

Sadly BMW uses the same model to shift M cars. They held back supply of M2's to start with but dealers will now discount. It's a road to ruin.

To compound matters BMW UK has become a major player in the pre reg market.

Punters overall love a deal but the knock on is low trade in's, a glut of second hand cars and a mountain of debt

Problem is the cycle has to continue unless BMW is prepared to cut production or find another market to take some of the UK allocation

New car sales are starting to come under pressure so should be an interesting winter
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      08-27-2017, 10:28 AM   #582
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I LOVE the M2. Drove the M3 and M4 on track at COTA at recent M Drivers School here in Austin and the M2 at the very short AutoX they set up. If M2CS is priced above $70k in the US, you would get way more car by ordering a stripper M3. Driving the M2 and M3 back to back highlights the differences, and not in a good way for the M2. That being said, I still prefer the M2 as a smaller, cheaper and more fun alternative. Emotions over rule my head and my wallet sometimes.

No need to flame me, I am #1 at my dealer for the M2GTS and I will buy it if it is made, even if it is a 6 figure car. Then I will go straight to the track with it and drive it at COTA as hard and as often as possible.
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      08-27-2017, 11:39 AM   #583
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Doesn't really matter what the price is if you don't have a dealer willing to give you MSRP
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      08-27-2017, 05:24 PM   #584
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Me: There's a black M2 over there in the parking lot. Let's swing by it on the way out.
Wife: That's it? I thought it would look more expensive.

Honestly, I have to agree. It looked more like someone put an M2 badge a 235. I've seen an M2 in BSM and it looked great. It just didn't have the muscular look that I recall.

Edit:. I'm almost sure that someone put an M2 badge on their m235 after looking at images. I don't think car in question has fangs on front bumper.

Last edited by medphysdave; 08-27-2017 at 05:30 PM..
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      08-27-2017, 05:31 PM   #585
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Quote:
Originally Posted by medphysdave View Post
Me: There's a black M2 over there in the parking lot. Let's swing by it on the way out.
Wife: That's it? I thought it would look more expensive.

Honestly, I have to agree. It looked more like someone put an M2 badge a 235. I've seen an M2 in BSM and it looked great. It just didn't have the muscular look that I recall.

Edit:. I'm almost sure that someone put an M2 badge on their m235 after looking at images. I don't think car in question has fangs on front bumper.
Relation to the topic at hand??
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      08-27-2017, 05:38 PM   #586
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Quote:
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Me: There's a black M2 over there in the parking lot. Let's swing by it on the way out.
Wife: That's it? I thought it would look more expensive.
That's pretty funny

However, let's remember, it is a $50K car, and in the BMW world, that's inexpensive.

I will say this however, I've never had this many looks/compliments on such an "inexpensive" car.
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      08-27-2017, 06:17 PM   #587
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Relation to the topic at hand??
Money talk.......and I'm number one on a list for one with a deposit down.
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      08-27-2017, 08:42 PM   #588
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Money talk.......and I'm number one on a list for one with a deposit down.
Same here Homie!!
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      08-28-2017, 10:14 AM   #589
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Originally Posted by doug_999 View Post
That's pretty funny

However, let's remember, it is a $50K car, and in the BMW world, that's inexpensive.

I will say this however, I've never had this many looks/compliments on such an "inexpensive" car.
Very true - you can option a 330i to that price easily and that almost looks like a camry The M2 and a stripper M3 are good value compared to everything else from bmw. Seems to me that 'regular' car prices have gone up a ton with inflation while M cars haven't gone up as much unless you get heavy with the options.
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      08-28-2017, 12:10 PM   #590
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Relation to the topic at hand??
He's clearly drunk.
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      08-28-2017, 02:18 PM   #591
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About price-point speculation: to me it seems that all depends on what total package you expect to get for the M2 CS base price. So please specify in your comments what will feature on the car for your price-guesstimates. Otherwise we're all talking at different frequencies: noise.

If BMW goes for a 'stock loaded' strategy (all bells 'n whistles as stock), the car will undoutebtedly have a cool set-up, but the M2 CS base price may penetrate very deep inside M3/M4 price-point territory + Hobson's Choice (a free choice in which only one thing is offered. Because a person may refuse to accept what is offered, the two options are taking it or taking nothing. In other words, one may "take it or leave it". The phrase is said to have originated with Thomas Hobson (1544–1631), a livery stable owner in Cambridge, England, who offered customers the choice of either taking the horse in his stall nearest to the door or taking none at all).

If, on the other hand, BMW applies the Porsche ' la carte' approach, requiring to pay for spicy extras, the M2 CS base price could be kept pretty competitive. But then the M2 CS with zero options (a so-called 'stripper') risks to be quite similar to the base M2 (except for the S55 engine of course, a few colors and maybe some tweaks here and there currently covered by camouflage) + all base M2 creature comfort options could be stashed inside the M2 CS options list accompanied by a couple of more track-oriented goodies (uprated wheels/brakes/seats, etc.). More choice to personalize, from sober till full-blown.

So what do you reckon would be the best strategy for the M2 CS: 'stock loaded', ' la carte' or something in-between ?

Personally I think that the M4 CS may lead the way as tell-tale sign for the M2 CS.

And about the transmission discussion: it has been discussed to death that BMW could make all car aficionados happy by offering both M-DCT and 6MT for the M2 CS. In a January 2017 interview BMW boss Frank Van Meel seemed to suggest that BMW had captured that enthusiasts vibe (here). Let's not give up hope.
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      08-28-2017, 02:58 PM   #592
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Artemis View Post
About price-point speculation: to me it seems that all depends on what total package you expect to get for the M2 CS base price. So please specify in your comments what will feature on the car for your price-guesstimates. Otherwise we're all talking at different frequencies: noise.

If BMW goes for a 'stock loaded' strategy (all bells 'n whistles as stock), the car will undoutebtedly have a cool set-up, but the M2 CS base price may penetrate very deep inside M3/M4 price-point territory + Hobson's Choice (a free choice in which only one thing is offered. Because a person may refuse to accept what is offered, the two options are taking it or taking nothing. In other words, one may "take it or leave it". The phrase is said to have originated with Thomas Hobson (1544–1631), a livery stable owner in Cambridge, England, who offered customers the choice of either taking the horse in his stall nearest to the door or taking none at all).

If, on the other hand, BMW applies the Porsche ' la carte' approach, requiring to pay for spicy extras, the M2 CS base price could be kept pretty competitive. But then the M2 CS with zero options (a so-called 'stripper') risks to be quite similar to the base M2 (except for the S55 engine of course, a few colors and maybe some tweaks here and there currently covered by camouflage) + all base M2 creature comfort options could be stashed inside the M2 CS options list accompanied by a couple of more track-oriented goodies (uprated wheels/brakes/seats, etc.). More choice to personalize, from sober till full-blown.

So what do you reckon would be the best strategy for the M2 CS: 'stock loaded', ' la carte' or something in-between ?

Personally I think that the M4 CS may lead the way as tell-tale sign for the M2 CS.

And about the transmission discussion: it has been discussed to death that BMW could make all car aficionados happy by offering both M-DCT and 6MT for the M2 CS. In a January 2017 interview BMW boss Frank Van Meel seemed to suggest that BMW had captured that enthusiasts vibe (here). Let's not give up hope.
I'm expecting pretty full spec as standard and very limited options

We will only know how serious BMW has been with the development of this car upon launch but I'm expecting it to come on the correct tyres it needs Cup 2's
It needs some serious weight saving
Seats need a major upgrade
It has to have min 410 bhp
Needs carbon ceramic brakes as standard
Performance exhaust has to be standard
O- 60 in 4.0

I would like to see a couple of wheel options but I doubt we will see it
A roll cage option would be nice but I think that will be the GTS if it ever gets made
Seems no individual paint which is a shame
I would like a couple of interior colours

54995 for CS with DCT slightly less if it gets manual

An M3 with Competition package is 61000

Base M2 47000
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      08-28-2017, 03:10 PM   #593
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cc3 View Post
I'm expecting pretty full spec as standard and very limited options

We will only know how serious BMW has been with the development of this car upon launch but I'm expecting it to come on the correct tyres it needs Cup 2's
It needs some serious weight saving
Seats need a major upgrade
It has to have min 410 bhp
Needs carbon ceramic brakes as standard
Performance exhaust has to be standard
O- 60 in 4.0

I would like to see a couple of wheel options but I doubt we will see it
A roll cage option would be nice but I think that will be the GTS if it ever gets made
Seems no individual paint which is a shame
I would like a couple of interior colours

54995 for CS with DCT slightly less if it gets manual

An M3 with Competition package is 61000

Base M2 47000

The carbon ceramic brakes are optional on the M4 CS. Seems quite unlikely that the M2 CS will come with carbon ceramic brakes as standard. I guess if BMW wanted a higher price for the car and this was a way for them to position it with a higher price they would? Seems unlikely.
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      08-28-2017, 03:58 PM   #594
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Quote:
Originally Posted by akkando View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by cc3 View Post
I'm expecting pretty full spec as standard and very limited options

We will only know how serious BMW has been with the development of this car upon launch but I'm expecting it to come on the correct tyres it needs Cup 2's
It needs some serious weight saving
Seats need a major upgrade
It has to have min 410 bhp
Needs carbon ceramic brakes as standard
Performance exhaust has to be standard
O- 60 in 4.0

I would like to see a couple of wheel options but I doubt we will see it
A roll cage option would be nice but I think that will be the GTS if it ever gets made
Seems no individual paint which is a shame
I would like a couple of interior colours

54995 for CS with DCT slightly less if it gets manual

An M3 with Competition package is 61000

Base M2 47000

The carbon ceramic brakes are optional on the M4 CS. Seems quite unlikely that the M2 CS will come with carbon ceramic brakes as standard. I guess if BMW wanted a higher price for the car and this was a way for them to position it with a higher price they would? Seems unlikely.
Yes good point
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