[aerokubectl]

Originally Posted by Tag

There are pros and cons to everything, that wasn't what was being discussed. Since you bring up a bunch of blanket statements and since I've run multiple cars that have been lowered let me take a crack at some of them.

- good luck clearing driveways.
Depends on how low you go. You can typically lower a car anywhere from .5" to .75" without having any real concerns so long as you're a careful driver. If you're absent minded or let others that you don't trust drive your car than you should not lower it.

- you've now put your suspension and car into the hands of aftermarket resellers that didn't bother going through all the rigor that BMW engineers went through to give you a perfect ride/handling experience
The stock suspension is far from perfect. Dinan unlike other companies actually does put a decent amount of R&D into their products. They even supply you with height and alignment specifications for their suppression setups.

- good luck on NVH
There are many factors to this. Just because you lower your car doesn't necessarily mean the ride gets worse. Do it wrong and your ride will suffer, do it correctly and you can improve the ride.

- good luck with potholes
You'd have to hit an insane pot hole to bottom out your car. Should be more worried about your wheels.

- good luck in snow
All depends on where you live and if you drive in winter. Case by case.

- good luck in deep rain
All depends on where you live. Case by case.

- good luck with tire clearance
You can lower a car and be able to lock your wheels from left to right, fully articulate your suspension and clear everything. Again, do it right and you'll have no issues.

Show me engineering data behind Dinan. You won't be able to find anything other than general statements. I want to see kinematic diagrams and extensive testing on a proving ground not driving down the street and saying "yep feels better". Who works for dinan with 15+ years of OE suspension and tire tuning? Show me actual data on the M2C not something they rule of thumbed onto their product.

Lowering your car on aftermarket springs(unless they're OE aftermarket) is a huge failboat for performance. It's great for looks though. I wish people were just honest with themselves and said it looks better, that's why I got it, instead they try to justify their overpriced springs with "performance"

[aerokubectl]

Lol just went to Dinans LinkedIn to spark some curiosity. Only two dudes have mechanical engineering in their title, the rest of the company is sales and marketing.

Best of luck boys

[Poochie]

Originally Posted by spetsnazos

Show me engineering data behind Dinan. You won't be able to find anything other than general statements.

Here you go, forward to 3:25

[aerokubectl]

Originally Posted by Poochie

Here you go, forward to 3:25

Just watched it. Better than 99% of the aftermarket suppliers. I still don't see any objective engineering data or hard warranties that exude confidence.

From LinkedIn, they have less than a dozen engineers vs thousands at BMW. BMW also produces parts and cars at scale, with robust reliability and performance metrics to go off of.

If lowering your car had so many upsides, why didn't BMW engineers lower the stock spec ?

[Poochie]

Originally Posted by spetsnazos

Just watched it. Better than 99% of the aftermarket suppliers. I still don't see any objective engineering data or hard warranties that exude confidence.

From LinkedIn, they have less than a dozen engineers vs thousands at BMW. BMW also produces parts and cars at scale, with robust reliability and performance metrics to go off of.

If lowering your car had so many upsides, why didn't BMW engineers lower the stock spec ?

I agree 100%; forcing an aftermarket spring rate on a dampers it's not build for is plain asinine..

I was just respond to your comment regarding Dinan's dog and pony operation..

I trust them 10 times over the alternatives..

[Tag]

Originally Posted by spetsnazos

Show me engineering data behind Dinan. You won't be able to find anything other than general statements. I want to see kinematic diagrams and extensive testing on a proving ground not driving down the street and saying "yep feels better". Who works for dinan with 15+ years of OE suspension and tire tuning? Show me actual data on the M2C not something they rule of thumbed onto their product.

Lowering your car on aftermarket springs(unless they're OE aftermarket) is a huge failboat for performance. It's great for looks though. I wish people were just honest with themselves and said it looks better, that's why I got it, instead they try to justify their overpriced springs with "performance"

Not your google monkey and not here to convince you or anyone else what do do with your car. Following your logic the BMW M performance coilovers suck too, because they lower your car? Ohh wait, you'll probably say they were engineered by BMW so that's OK. In reality they are made by KW. I get it, everyone that lowers their cars doesn't know what they're doing, but you who require engineering data and years 15+ experience from suspension manufactures have got it all figured out.

[aerokubectl]

Originally Posted by Tag

Not your google monkey and not here to convince you or anyone else what do do with your car. Following your logic the BMW M performance coilovers suck too, because they lower your car? Ohh wait, you'll probably say they were engineered by BMW so that's OK. In reality they are made by KW. I get it, everyone that lowers their cars doesn't know what they're doing, but you who require engineering data and years 15+ experience from suspension manufactures have got it all figured out.

I went to Dinans website and couldn't find a single white paper that provides any engineering data on these springs. Lol what would I google, please give me the search terms and I'll look? I've taken enough vehicle dynamics classes and did it professionally to tell you that just slapping different springs will affect NVH, limit handling, reliability and day to day performance. How? Idk I'd need to see kinematics curves, CFD data, and proving grounds results.

I never said nobody knows what they're doing when they lower their car . It's just most people can't prove to me that performance/realizability has increased or stayed the same. I don't believe in "butt dynos", instead I prefer hard facts and real engineering. But to each his own

[Davil]

I have to agree with Mr. Spets-Nazos on lowering springs. I've done this in the past. First you convince yourself they are great (and if you are under 25) you like the "stance". Then one day, you either drive a standard car again or put your old springs back on and think. Oh my god, this standard setup is so much better. A great example is that Achilles chap who is ruining his beautiful car one step at a time. I think he realised what he'd done when driving it back to back with a stock setup car in one of his videos.

High quality coilover setups are a different kettle of fish though as the springs and dampers are matched and they have proper travel. If you intend to track the car and are one of those Alvin Atallcosts types, it's probably step 3 after tyres and brakes. It will never be as good as the stock suspension as an all rounder though, but that's the compromise you make when the bug bites.

Take note that BMW's own coilover setup won't be used on the new M2CS. In fact the only car it has been fitted to in recent times is the M4GTS, which was probably the most derided F series model and is reportedly a turd to live with once you leave the track.

[NEfan508]

Originally Posted by Davil

I find that 34.8745 is the sweet spot.

Funny

[ddk632]

Yeah the only time my tires see >37 PSI is when the car is loaded with my whole family, all of our bags, the cooler and snack bag, and the cat!

Otherwise normal driving 32-33

Canyons I lower so it's closer to 30-31 when hot.

Sounds like NJ has some terrible roads and the higher PSI makes the car feel smoother on those roads.

[COChris]

What is the ideal temperature for our tires when warm? 38?

[aerokubectl]

Originally Posted by Davil

I have to agree with Mr. Spets-Nazos.

Lmao see we can be friends. It's actually spetsnaz-os tho hah.

[FSociety]

Originally Posted by COChris

What is the ideal temperature for our tires when warm? 38?

My winters needed to be 32psi cold otherwise they would not grip with DSC OFF.
My summers so far I've left it at 32psi cold since thats what my door seal says for my 2017 M3 Comp Pkg.
I will try 33.5 to see if it improves over puddles of rain

[brocurls]

I wouldn't lower a car considering how shit the roads are in the PA/DE/NJ tri-state around me. I dread the drive to Philly everyday using I-95 or when I need to get to Voorhees via 295.

[5150d]

Driving a new 2020 M2C in California.
No track.
Just fun.
Door says 35 psi cold.

What do you recommend?

Pro and con of different?

[AlpsRider]

Originally Posted by 5150d

Driving a new 2020 M2C in California.
No track.
Just fun.
Door says 35 psi cold.

What do you recommend?

Pro and con of different?

Street use:
I run 34.5 cold pressure on all 4 corners with 65 degree mornings. That is a good pressure with just me in an otherwise empty car. It has manual transmission which is about 55 lbs lighter than a DCT. If you carry around more weight you might want to add more pressure. In the winter I run a little less pressure because the tires get hard in colder weather.

[Brandt51]

A better ride and improved handling from higher air pressure? Very plausible. Quick story; last year my race team and I were at our first ‘professional’ outing at Laguna with an entry in the Twins class (motorcycles road racing) and we were going backwards on setup because we were lowering pressure in the front tire. The Dunlop rep clued us in that the front needed higher than the perceived average psi for the tire (and bike) to turn and work. Weird, but yeah, it made the difference (our rider took 3rd).

[OldDirtyCoaks]

Lol - I run 40psi cold, it's a game changer, no scuffing or nothing on the sidewall.

Highest I've ever seen it was 54 after coming off the track.