[ND40oz]

Originally Posted by Davil

The car is such a work of art though.

Is that The Frame?

[F87EVO]

Originally Posted by Davil

The car is such a work of art though.

It really is !

[medphysdave]

I think you win the fan award

[2011ninja]

Originally Posted by Bimmercs

Another one ! Also from some of the best reviewers out there !

Long long awaited , enjoy !

INEFFABLE!

[adc]

If you guys want to make your M2CS even better, install a front camber plate and dial-in an aggressive street alignment. It was the only weak spot in my back to back comparison, and by that I mean you can have an amazing car drive even better for about $1k or so.

[medphysdave]

Originally Posted by adc

If you guys want to make your M2CS even better, install a front camber plate and dial-in an aggressive street alignment. It was the only weak spot in my back to back comparison, and by that I mean you can have an amazing car drive even better for about $1k or so.

What numbers would you suggest for alignment front and rear?

[MadBimmeRad]

Originally Posted by duky

Was this not the same argument folks were making about the 1M when the F87 was coming/released?

Not sure really. I'm convinced, undoubtedly each generation of new bimmers will technologically and performance-wise be superior to the previous; some by a little and some a lot.

But the first of a new "iconic" line, like the 3-series in the 70s and the 2 over the past few years have proven themselves as the proverbial "first kiss"; you'll never forget that first kiss no matter if it was good or if it was bad.

Thankfully, the F87 turned out to be great all round.

It's the one that'll be remembered as the first kiss of the 2-series

[ASAP]

awesome car and awesome review... what I do have a slight issue with is that no one truly seems to focus on how and why the CS is truly better than the Comp... Their major upside here is that the car was 6mt as opposed to the DCT Comp they drove... well what if they drove a 6 mt comp?

Little else was said outside of the adaptive suspension being comfortable... i like their reviews a lot but many of them seem like marketing pieces / facts comparos as opposed to comparos with true subjectivity... well at least hey, I do praise them on saying the truth on the 1M LOL.

[adc]

Originally Posted by medphysdave

What numbers would you suggest for alignment front and rear?

I have negative 2.7 with a minuscule amount of toe out at the front, negative 2 with a little toe-in at the rear. It is perfect for the street and extremely respectable at the track.

A few notes:
- You’d need over 3.2 at the front if you want to run slicks or similarly aggressive tires on track, and probably zero toe to reduce wear.
- I’m confident the front end would respond to the same settings in the M2CS. But due to the shorter wheelbase, your rear settings might need to be different. It’s all about balancing front and rear grip after all.
- Edit: on second thought, I’m running wider tires on track than you can fit on the M2 so when you do talk to your race shop, mention what you plan to run on the street and track.

I’d suggest asking a reputable race shop for advice. Try calling Bimmerworld and ask them what they would suggest for this car.

[adc]

Originally Posted by ASAP

awesome car and awesome review... what I do have a slight issue with is that no one truly seems to focus on how and why the CS is truly better than the Comp... Their major upside here is that the car was 6mt as opposed to the DCT Comp they drove... well what if they drove a 6 mt comp?

Little else was said outside of the adaptive suspension being comfortable... i like their reviews a lot but many of them seem like marketing pieces / facts comparos as opposed to comparos with true subjectivity... well at least hey, I do praise them on saying the truth on the 1M LOL.

It’s hard to pinpoint but I’d suggest the better damping of the adaptive suspension, coupled with the better engine tune. The M4 Comp-like tune is very linear with power all the way to the top, makes the car very intuitive to drive.

It was difficult to pinpoint when I tested my M3 Comp back to back with an M2CS. I had the CS map on my car to eliminate as many variables as possible. But in the end, it was clear the shock damping was better, plus the minute specific calibrations of the steering, differential, EDC all amounted to an overall difference you could feel. Cup tires also contributed, and significantly lighter wheels.

I wouldn’t be surprised if the M2CS has similar calibration differences compared to the M2C. You might be able to close the gap on steering and differential settings, but then you still have the EDC in play.

Both the M3CS and M2CS felt more fluid than their Competition counterparts, more at one with the road. Less spiky or bouncy. Biggest takeaway for me.

[ASAP]

Originally Posted by adc

It’s hard to pinpoint but I’d suggest the better damping of the adaptive suspension, coupled with the better engine tune. The M4 Comp-like tune is very linear with power all the way to the top, makes the car very intuitive to drive.

It was difficult to pinpoint when I tested my M3 Comp back to back with an M2CS. I had the CS map on my car to eliminate as many variables as possible. But in the end, it was clear the shock damping was better, plus the minute specific calibrations of the steering, differential, EDC all amounted to an overall difference you could feel. Cup tires also contributed, and significantly lighter wheels.

I wouldn’t be surprised if the M2CS has similar calibration differences compared to the M2C. You might be able to close the gap on steering and differential settings, but then you still have the EDC in play.

Both the M3CS and M2CS felt more fluid than their Competition counterparts, more at one with the road. Less spiky or bouncy. Biggest takeaway for me.

thanks for that... this is the type of information we need... i wonder if we'll ever see an m2 comp vs cs track comparo... maybe in many years

I surmise to say that a comp with the cs tune and sport cup tires on a solid alignment would be neck and neck around any track vs a CS. Now, if the Comp got a solid set of coilovers to compensate the EDC on the CS.... well... who knows...

[TrentMeister]

Hearing that the center console creaks was a deal breaker for me lol

[scoale]

Originally Posted by ASAP

awesome car and awesome review... what I do have a slight issue with is that no one truly seems to focus on how and why the CS is truly better than the Comp... Their major upside here is that the car was 6mt as opposed to the DCT Comp they drove... well what if they drove a 6 mt comp?

Little else was said outside of the adaptive suspension being comfortable... i like their reviews a lot but many of them seem like marketing pieces / facts comparos as opposed to comparos with true subjectivity... well at least hey, I do praise them on saying the truth on the 1M LOL.

EVERY review has noted that the adaptive suspension improves handling AND compliance - as well as steering. That, for me, is the big performance news. And the car is significantly better looking.

[adc]

Originally Posted by ASAP

I surmise to say that a comp with the cs tune and sport cup tires on a solid alignment would be neck and neck around any track vs a CS. Now, if the Comp got a solid set of coilovers to compensate the EDC on the CS.... well... who knows...

Yes the differences on track will be mostly attributable to the tires you run. With identical wheels/tires, you would need a pro-level driver to achieve any statistically meaningful differences.

As to coilovers, it's a mixed bag. I have Ohlins R/T on my M3 and yes it handles much better on track, but I pay with some level of reduced comfort on the street. The quality of the damping is indeed better than BMW OEM, but there is ultimately no getting around the fact that you run stiffer springs all around.

IMO, it makes little sense to pay the high $$ for the CS only to throw away the best street bits (wheels, suspension) in order to make it better on track. For a track-oriented car, start with an M2C and build it for track: cheaper and better in the end. It is also the reason I decided against buying an M2CS to replace my M3C - with the CS I'd have to throw away the suspension, buy new track wheels (18" don't fit) etc and end up with a similar performing car.

I think the M2CS makes sense in the mostly-street scenario. Put a set of nice camber plates, align it, tune the engine to M3CS or Stage1 levels, and enjoy to the fullest. And on track, accept the compromises. Anything else, and you destroy the value proposition.

[Al Bundy's Dodge]

Originally Posted by scoale

EVERY review has noted that the adaptive suspension improves handling AND compliance - as well as steering. That, for me, is the big performance news. And the car is significantly better looking.

Agreed, I've picked up on that theme as well. However it's still difficult for me to gauge just how much better those attributes are from the reviews, and if the improvement is worth the $30k premium.

But if the excitement of the reviewers is any indication, it certainly seems that it is.

[medphysdave]

Originally Posted by adc

Yes the differences on track will be mostly attributable to the tires you run. With identical wheels/tires, you would need a pro-level driver to achieve any statistically meaningful differences.

As to coilovers, it's a mixed bag. I have Ohlins R/T on my M3 and yes it handles much better on track, but I pay with some level of reduced comfort on the street. The quality of the damping is indeed better than BMW OEM, but there is ultimately no getting around the fact that you run stiffer springs all around.

IMO, it makes little sense to pay the high $$ for the CS only to throw away the best street bits (wheels, suspension) in order to make it better on track. For a track-oriented car, start with an M2C and build it for track: cheaper and better in the end. It is also the reason I decided against buying an M2CS to replace my M3C - with the CS I'd have to throw away the suspension, buy new track wheels (18" don't fit) etc and end up with a similar performing car.

I think the M2CS makes sense in the mostly-street scenario. Put a set of nice camber plates, align it, tune the engine to M3CS or Stage1 levels, and enjoy to the fullest. And on track, accept the compromises. Anything else, and you destroy the value proposition.

I agree with this.

[AlpsRider]

Originally Posted by adc

Yes the differences on track will be mostly attributable to the tires you run. With identical wheels/tires, you would need a pro-level driver to achieve any statistically meaningful differences.

As to coilovers, it's a mixed bag. I have Ohlins R/T on my M3 and yes it handles much better on track, but I pay with some level of reduced comfort on the street. The quality of the damping is indeed better than BMW OEM, but there is ultimately no getting around the fact that you run stiffer springs all around.

IMO, it makes little sense to pay the high $$ for the CS only to throw away the best street bits (wheels, suspension) in order to make it better on track. For a track-oriented car, start with an M2C and build it for track: cheaper and better in the end. It is also the reason I decided against buying an M2CS to replace my M3C - with the CS I'd have to throw away the suspension, buy new track wheels (18" don't fit) etc and end up with a similar performing car.

I think the M2CS makes sense in the mostly-street scenario. Put a set of nice camber plates, align it, tune the engine to M3CS or Stage1 levels, and enjoy to the fullest. And on track, accept the compromises. Anything else, and you destroy the value proposition.

Even just changing to lowering springs on the M2CS would likely alter the suspension magic. The suspension is programed for the stock springs and ride height. I think that you are completely right, keep the suspension on the CS as is or you might as well get an M2C if money is a factor at all.

[ASAP]

Originally Posted by medphysdave

I agree with this.

The problem becomes... this is a really weird expectation of what a "CS" model is to be... a better streetcar w more comfort? I think there are some really heavy elephants in the room here.

Personally... I would have done everything to make this a lighter car... pull the upgraded stereo, manual seats only, manual air cond... replace deck cards w cardboard ala csl and put in a nice M perf suspension or some sort of partnership w Ohlins and optimize dampening etc. This all aside from the fact that the 1M was $47k when it came out... this is $88k... not sure where we went wrong there in the last 10 years. BMW is milking us and they know it...

[medphysdave]

I'm leaving mine alone. My Ftype sat a bit high for my taste. What is to my taste is not destroying the carbon front lip. The CS is all about DD livability and I think it's been optimized out of the box for that compromise. That's what floats my boat, but others may have a different focus that require them to adjust things accordingly.

[Artemis]

Originally Posted by medphysdave

I'm leaving mine alone. My Ftype sat a bit high for my taste. What is to my taste is not destroying the carbon front lip. The CS is all about DD livability and I think it's been optimized out of the box for that compromise. That's what floats my boat, but others may have a different focus that require them to adjust things accordingly.

Beware.

[ND40oz]

Originally Posted by Artemis

Beware.

Didn't Throttle House have this car before The Straight Pipes?

[GimmeanM]

Originally Posted by ND40oz

Didn't Throttle House have this car before The Straight Pipes?

No, Throttle House had a car with CCB and the one in Straight Pipes is steel brakes.