[medphysdave]

Originally Posted by JustChris

Agreed it's just weird. Literally no point, it's not even a Halo for the M2 ... which you also can't order for another 2 years as G87 etc

Bizarre.

I'm afraid the U.K. has a pretty bleak range of cars and they're trying hard to silll look 'enthusiast'.

I've a Cayman GTS 4.0 manual on order, why because it's what I desire.

BMW range options:/

- Z4 nice but heavy and no MT
- M2 nope 2 years
- M3/4 great if I want a 1600kg ZF auto drag strip car
- So many ugly cars that you have to try to like, M2 and Z4 are the only lookers

My option for a small manual is .... 118i

They're screwed up not having a manual M3/4 and leaving the M2 gap too long.

Well in my £70k opinion anyway, money that could have gone BMWs way.

That would be crazy great if we could get a GT4 for the same price as a CS here in the states. I'd still be in a CS because of my lifestyle, but it would it would sell like hotcakes.

[NathObeaN]

Originally Posted by Bimmercs

Reviewing cars doesn't always mean that it has to do with sales or marketing. Its passion. Everyone is celebrating the last hurrah of the first generation M2 with smiles and hope for the future. I am still waiting for the Top Gear and Carfection review .

Let's not kid ourselves, the majority of these cars are leant to magazines and press by BMW marketing themselves. They are press cars. Very rarely are these cars leant to magazines and press by an owner.

[NathObeaN]

Originally Posted by Jimjamz

Um - on that basis all car magazines would be going on about are Toyota corollas and Fords rather than Zondas and Ferraris. The unobtainable are what kids put on their bedroom walls, not what's parked in the garage next door.

... that doesn't really make any sense... these cars are still available for purchase 99% of the time. When an exotic car is reviewed in isolation by a magazine or YouTuber then it's usually for clicks and leant to them by an owner who wants their car reviewed. Fair enough. But, as mentioned above, the majority of these M2CS cars are leant to the press or magazines by BMW themselves. These are often press cars. Pagani is not lending Zondas to people when they aren't for sale. Same for Ferrari.

[Jimjamz]

Originally Posted by NathObeaN

... that doesn't really make any sense... these cars are still available for purchase 99% of the time. When an exotic car is reviewed in isolation by a magazine or YouTuber then it's usually for clicks and leant to them by an owner who wants their car reviewed. Fair enough. But, as mentioned above, the majority of these M2CS cars are leant to the press or magazines by BMW themselves. These are often press cars. Pagani is not lending Zondas to people when they aren't for sale. Same for Ferrari.

I'm not sure about the UK but you can still order these cars in many markets. Further, I understand the UK car magazines have global readership - I get copies of EVO here in Australia.

And finally, many people who read these magazines don't buy the cars in them - they are car fans who read them for entertainment.

[leemik]

Originally Posted by JustChris

- M3/4 great if I want a 1600kg ZF auto drag strip car

Looking at the various curb weights around the internet.. It seems the m2cs is very similar in weight to the m4cs. It's only +/- 50kg difference. If you get the dct m2cs, it's virtually the same curb weight.

It's funny how the press can over hype something and manipulate thinking. Case in point m2cs vs m4cs..both vastly overpriced when released and every review says both are the best version of that car model by small margins. If you put them back to back, the cars seem to perform almost exactly the same...but the hype the m2cs is getting is enormous over the hated m4cs.

A used m4cs is around 65K USD right now..something else to consider

[M2Cmtl]

Didn't help that the M4CS was DCT only. Most automotive journalist preffer stick. But I agree that for some reason everyone is giving a pass to the huge price tag. Thats a large part of the appeal of the M2C, the price.

[Hulk Smash]

Originally Posted by leemik

Looking at the various curb weights around the internet.. It seems the m2cs is very similar in weight to the m4cs. It's only +/- 50kg difference. If you get the dct m2cs, it's virtually the same curb weight.

It's funny how the press can over hype something and manipulate thinking. Case in point m2cs vs m4cs..both vastly overpriced when released and every review says both are the best version of that car model by small margins. If you put them back to back, the cars seem to perform almost exactly the same...but the hype the m2cs is getting is enormous over the hated m4cs.

A used m4cs is around 65K USD right now..something else to consider

It's the driving experience that's makes all the difference. Where the M4 feels heavy, the M2 hides the weight and is more agile. The first thing M3/M4 owners notice when they get a chance to drive a M2 is how much quicker and more direct the steering in the M2 feels.

[medphysdave]

Originally Posted by leemik

Looking at the various curb weights around the internet.. It seems the m2cs is very similar in weight to the m4cs. It's only +/- 50kg difference. If you get the dct m2cs, it's virtually the same curb weight.

It's funny how the press can over hype something and manipulate thinking. Case in point m2cs vs m4cs..both vastly overpriced when released and every review says both are the best version of that car model by small margins. If you put them back to back, the cars seem to perform almost exactly the same...but the hype the m2cs is getting is enormous over the hated m4cs.

A used m4cs is around 65K USD right now..something else to consider

It will be interesting to see where it lands. If they indeed have similar performance M4CS vs M2CS there is a msrp delta of 20k. Most reviews do seem similar in that it's better than the comp by a small margin. I like it to squeezing water out of a sponge. The water being the performance. At some point a really hard squeeze doesn't gain much. You squeeze harder (money) and get less (performance). You still make gains and it is better if your pockets are deep enough. BMW has taken steps towards mitigating depreciation on this model. At least in the US. M2CS being vastly overpriced is false. I agree a little overpriced, but not outrageous when compared to trying to build out a comp to the same.

Fewer and fewer enthusiasts can enjoy the 100k+ price point that the M4CS was playing in. This crowed can afford a sports car and a family car. They don't need one that does both. I argue the size of the m4 is a bit off putting for a sports car. The M2 is small enough to give a lot of sports car feel that I think the larger cars lack. I don't think a majority of the bmw enthusiasts are in the 100k+ buyer's and that is why I think the M4CS is less hyped than the M2CS. More poeple can still afford the M2CS even though it is slightly overpriced.

[JustChris]

Originally Posted by leemik

Looking at the various curb weights around the internet.. It seems the m2cs is very similar in weight to the m4cs. It's only +/- 50kg difference. If you get the dct m2cs, it's virtually the same curb weight.

It's funny how the press can over hype something and manipulate thinking. Case in point m2cs vs m4cs..both vastly overpriced when released and every review says both are the best version of that car model by small margins. If you put them back to back, the cars seem to perform almost exactly the same...but the hype the m2cs is getting is enormous over the hated m4cs.

A used m4cs is around 65K USD right now..something else to consider

Good shout.

[uhn2000]

Originally Posted by M2CS

It's the driving experience that's makes all the difference. Where the M4 feels heavy, the M2 hides the weight and is more agile. The first thing M3/M4 owners notice when they get a chance to drive a M2 is how much quicker and more direct the steering in the M2 feels.

Hides a good word.. I drove the M4CS and I really respected the car (nicer interior then M2CS) but it just felt a bit too big for what I wanted. Agreed they may be the same weight but the feeling is very different.. interesting stuff.

[PhatLyfe]

Too many fake or paid reviews by bmw, sorry I don't buy anything based on these lane people and their fake reviews.

[Hulk Smash]

Originally Posted by PhatLyfe

Too many fake or paid reviews by bmw, sorry I don't buy anything based on these lane people and their fake reviews.

Sounds like the current political climate. If someone votes for you or someone you support, it's legit. If someone votes for your competition it's obviously fake.

[MadBimmeRad]

Originally Posted by M2CS

Sounds like the current political climate. If someone votes for you or someone you support, it's legit. If someone votes for your competition it's obviously fake.

Funny how that works out!

[Bimmed Out]

Originally Posted by M2CS

Sounds like the current political climate. If someone votes for you or someone you support, it's legit. If someone votes for your competition it's obviously fake.

Perfectly said. I guess Evo, Top Gear, etc., were all paid off, too.

[dgm3]

Originally Posted by medphysdave

It will be interesting to see where it lands. If they indeed have similar performance M4CS vs M2CS there is a msrp delta of 20k. Most reviews do seem similar in that it's better than the comp by a small margin. I like it to squeezing water out of a sponge. The water being the performance. At some point a really hard squeeze doesn't gain much. You squeeze harder (money) and get less (performance). You still make gains and it is better if your pockets are deep enough. BMW has taken steps towards mitigating depreciation on this model. At least in the US. M2CS being vastly overpriced is false. I agree a little overpriced, but not outrageous when compared to trying to build out a comp to the same.

Fewer and fewer enthusiasts can enjoy the 100k+ price point that the M4CS was playing in. This crowed can afford a sports car and a family car. They don't need one that does both. I argue the size of the m4 is a bit off putting for a sports car. The M2 is small enough to give a lot of sports car feel that I think the larger cars lack. I don't think a majority of the bmw enthusiasts are in the 100k+ buyer's and that is why I think the M4CS is less hyped than the M2CS. More poeple can still afford the M2CS even though it is slightly overpriced.

Think the M2CS is really overpriced if you just consider the driving experience. It is very similar to the M2C except that the suspension make it a better DD (but is it really what people wanted on the supposedly sportiest M2 version ? ).
On the other hand if one value all the cosmetic carbon parts and the Nappa leather seats the price is then probably fair. Personally the only carbon part that I value is the center console which allow to get rid of the annoying armest .The Nappa leather would have been a nice upgrade if it would also cover the dashboard and doors panels ...but it is not the case and imo the nice/fine Nappa leather clash with the poor looking/gross aspect of the dashbord and doors.

[medphysdave]

Originally Posted by dgm3

Think the M2CS is really overpriced if you just consider the driving experience. It is very similar to the M2C except that the suspension make it a better DD (but is it really what people wanted on the supposedly sportiest M2 version ? ).
On the other hand if one value all the cosmetic carbon parts and the Nappa leather seats the price is then probably fair. Personally the only carbon part that I value is the center console which allow to get rid of the annoying armest .The Nappa leather would have been a nice upgrade if it would also cover the dashboard and doors panels ...but it is not the case and imo the nice/fine Nappa leather clash with the poor looking/gross aspect of the dashbord and doors.

I think I mostly agree with you. The value of the CS depends on the buyer. Some will see it as a complete waste of money because the C can be so easily modified to outperform a stock CS. This is a true and fair argument. Others will use it as their daily beater where the slightly improved livability and interior refinement are worth the cost alone because of the package it's wrapped in. Others will go after the limited run, prestige, pinnacle of the model, etc. All fair, true, and reasonable arguments. I fall in a combination the latter and am no longer interested in lots of tuning/modification.

I also agree that the dash is garbage. They should have extended the leather. On the flip side I've had luxurious extended leather, and it matters the first couple of times you drive, and the it no longer matters. I still rock my ratchet 2002 nissan xterra and love it.

[sdhotwn]

Having had it a few days, and comparing it against my E36 M3 and the GT4 I drove and quite a few other driving experiences (but not an M2C, just an OG M2). I am comfortable saying that I feel it is well worth the price of entry. I haven't driven anything in a very very long time that has so much feel and movement to it. It's not as tossable/playful as some lower level cars, but man is it a joyful thing to drive.

[dgm3]

Originally Posted by sdhotwn

Having had it a few days, and comparing it against my E36 M3 and the GT4 I drove and quite a few other driving experiences (but not an M2C, just an OG M2). I am comfortable saying that I feel it is well worth the price of entry. I haven't driven anything in a very very long time that has so much feel and movement to it. It's not as tossable/playful as some lower level cars, but man is it a joyful thing to drive.

I still have an E36 M3 as well (a 3.2 Euro version though) but my M2C, and I guess any variant of the M2, is imo nowhere close in term of feel/connection to the road. The M2C has a great chassis and is very playfull but I have to push it (beyond reasonable speeds) on back roads to really enjoy it...On the other hand the E36 with its great engine and raw feeling is enjoyable at any speed, on any road. Guess it is the eternal debate modern vs old sports cars, modern cars are better by every objective measurement but not necessarily a better driving experience.
Still the M2C is a great modern sport car and the M2CS probably even better. Enjoy it.

[Artemis]

Originally Posted by dgm3

Think the M2CS is really overpriced if you just consider the driving experience. It is very similar to the M2C except that the suspension make it a better DD (but is it really what people wanted on the supposedly sportiest M2 version ? ).
On the other hand if one value all the cosmetic carbon parts and the Nappa leather seats the price is then probably fair. Personally the only carbon part that I value is the center console which allow to get rid of the annoying armest .The Nappa leather would have been a nice upgrade if it would also cover the dashboard and doors panels ...but it is not the case and imo the nice/fine Nappa leather clash with the poor looking/gross aspect of the dashbord and doors.

The M2 CS features Merino leather instead of Dakota leather. No Nappa leather.

BMW leather: see here.

"Merino Leather
If you want your BMW leather to really impress your passengers, you’ll need Merino. While Nappa leather is standard on most luxury BMWs, it’s the Merino leather that’s optional on them. Even the 7 Series makes you pay more for Merino leather because it’s the best that BMW offers. Some higher-end M models come with it and most Individual leather options are made from the stuff as well. It’s the finest quality cowhide BMW offers and it’s not dyed with any artificial colors or coatings. So it’s the richest and most premium leather among the bunch. But it’s also the most expensive and will require care and maintenance to keep its quality and look."

[MadBimmeRad]

Originally Posted by dgm3

Think the M2CS is really overpriced if you just consider the driving experience. It is very similar to the M2C except that the suspension make it a better DD (but is it really what people wanted on the supposedly sportiest M2 version ? ).
On the other hand if one value all the cosmetic carbon parts and the Nappa leather seats the price is then probably fair. Personally the only carbon part that I value is the center console which allow to get rid of the annoying armest .The Nappa leather would have been a nice upgrade if it would also cover the dashboard and doors panels ...but it is not the case and imo the nice/fine Nappa leather clash with the poor looking/gross aspect of the dashbord and doors.

I guess you won't be buying the CS?

[sdhotwn]

Originally Posted by dgm3

I still have an E36 M3 as well (a 3.2 Euro version though) but my M2C, and I guess any variant of the M2, is imo nowhere close in term of feel/connection to the road. The M2C has a great chassis and is very playfull but I have to push it (beyond reasonable speeds) on back roads to really enjoy it...On the other hand the E36 with its great engine and raw feeling is enjoyable at any speed, on any road. Guess it is the eternal debate modern vs old sports cars, modern cars are better by every objective measurement but not necessarily a better driving experience.
Still the M2C is a great modern sport car and the M2CS probably even better. Enjoy it.

I plan to do some more back to back drives in the spring, but I was completely shocked by the steering feel and body motion of the CS. It's also new and exciting so we'll see what time and familiarity breed, but if you asked me to keep only one just for pure driving engagement and fun, right now I'd pick the CS.

[Davil]

Originally Posted by dgm3

I still have an E36 M3 as well (a 3.2 Euro version though) but my M2C, and I guess any variant of the M2, is imo nowhere close in term of feel/connection to the road. The M2C has a great chassis and is very playfull but I have to push it (beyond reasonable speeds) on back roads to really enjoy it...On the other hand the E36 with its great engine and raw feeling is enjoyable at any speed, on any road. Guess it is the eternal debate modern vs old sports cars, modern cars are better by every objective measurement but not necessarily a better driving experience.
Still the M2C is a great modern sport car and the M2CS probably even better. Enjoy it.

I had a Euro e36 M3. I preferred my e36 318is for driving enjoyment as the M3 was only fun at illegal speeds due to its relatively heavy weight for the time and lack of low down torque. When ringing it, it was fun though.

My M2C is fun at all speeds, handling is in another league over the e36 M3. Looking forward to the CS which sounds even better.