[Fugly M3]

Originally Posted by chris719

Not saying he's wrong, but BMW M school themselves were running Continental ExtremeContactSport on every car they had there when I went in 2019. That's not an OEM tire on anything, yet all those systems worked well.

Yea, but I think that's because they got them for a song.

[chris719]

Originally Posted by F8SEVEN

Yea, but I think that's because they got them for a song.

No doubt. They have a deal with Continental. However, through all the sliding and newbie mistakes, the Conti seemed to perform just as progressively as the PSS I have on my car. The sky didn't fall and the tire didn't throw everyone off the road. The instructors in SC had good things to say about that tire.

Just trying to bring in a counterpoint to if it's not a * spec OEM tire it should never be used. When I replaced the OEM Conti * on my Z4M to Michelin PS2 it was a massive upgrade in all ways. Time does move forward, so while the OEM spec tire has some advantages against the standard tire in that line, after a couple of product releases I wouldn't want to be driving on the old tire.

[Ratcher]

These systems are dynamic up to an extent. If you change brake pads your ABS will still work, etc.

I can only share my experience, and I have 41.000km with this car, including many trackdays.

If you like to use MDM, the PS4S tire isn't the best choice, since MDM puts you back in your place immediately. For what it's worth, I had PS4S without any kind of marking in stock sizes.

Both PSS and Cup 2's work well with MDM, always allowing a slight slide to happen, which is something you sometimes can't avoid if at the limit with a light rear-end.

One thing that I particularly disliked with the combo MDM+PS4S was tracking with rain. The PS4S have an AMAZING level of grip on a wet surface, it's incredible. However, I am now going to wet trackdays with my Cup 2, reason being: DSC Off at a wet track is a no-go for me, and MDM+PS4S doesn't allow the slightest drift. Which on the M2 on a wet surface is almost unavoidable. Cup2s you are slower, but you can have a lot more fun, if the rear slides out, MDM will allow you to keep going.

To put this into examples (in both cases it's my car):

Cup 2 + MDM on a wet surface, skip to 4:09

PS4S + MDM, skip to 0:18

See that on the PS4S video the car immediately goes on the brakes, you can hear a sound like something is vibrating.

I considered the reason for this could be the Endless ME22 pads that I use, but by keeping the pads constant and changing the tires you still see what I just described. Both videos above are on ME22.

PS4S with DSC Off can drift obviously, however in my experience you need to be more aggressive for the car to first lose grip.

[///MPhatic]

Originally Posted by Ratcher

If you like to use MDM, the PS4S tire isn't the best choice, since MDM puts you back in your place immediately.

I might have had a similar experience with the stock star-spec Conti's.

When I first got my car, before I had a downpipe, I rather liked the sound of MDM mode (traction mode I call it), but what I hated about it was that the nannies would intervene so easily, and harshly, not allowing the car to slide in a transitional manner. It happened frequently on low-speed corners where I'd be accelerating, the car would start to slide, then there would be a power loss and the car would jerk back into line. I hated it so much I haven't used MDM since.

Is that what you are saying happens with the PS4S, or are you talking about something else?

[Ratcher]

Originally Posted by ///MPhatic

I might have had a similar experience with the stock star-spec Conti's.

When I first got my car, before I had a downpipe, I rather liked the sound of MDM mode (traction mode I call it), but what I hated about it was that the nannies would intervene so easily, and harshly, not allowing the car to slide in a transitional manner. It happened frequently on low-speed corners where I'd be accelerating, the car would start to slide, then there would be a power loss and the car would jerk back into line. I hated it so much I haven't used MDM since.

Is that what you are saying happens with the PS4S, or are you talking about something else?

100% this!

[///MPhatic]

Originally Posted by Ratcher

100% this!

Ah, interesting. I hadn't noticed this with my PS4S because I always run with everything off (I don't track my car).

And you're saying the car doesn't have this inclination with the stock PSS? That's very interesting.

[///MPhatic]

Originally Posted by M3R1

Of course...

I did not notice this p0rnography before. How could you? I'm at work!

[Ratcher]

Originally Posted by ///MPhatic

Ah, interesting. I hadn't noticed this with my PS4S because I always run with everything off (I don't track my car).

And you're saying the car doesn't have this inclination with the stock PSS? That's very interesting.

I am saying with both PSS nad Cup2 the car lets you slide more and still lets you play a bit, only acting when you exaggerate. Check out the first clip I shared above around the 4:09 mark, it almost feels like its DSC completely off

[///MPhatic]

Originally Posted by Ratcher

I am saying with both PSS nad Cup2 the car lets you slide more and still lets you play a bit, only acting when you exaggerate. Check out the first clip I shared above around the 4:09 mark, it almost feels like its DSC completely off

OK, wow.

Last question. Why would someone race/track in MDM mode as opposed to Sport+?

[Ratcher]

Originally Posted by ///MPhatic

OK, wow.

Last question. Why would someone race/track in MDM mode as opposed to Sport+?

Erm, its a Competition, so driving modes are completely different. Basically I track on MDM, which means DSC half off, and Sport+ or DSC Off and Sport +. You can set your ESP mode and engine mode independently on the Competition

[///MPhatic]

Originally Posted by Ratcher

Erm, its a Competition, so driving modes are completely different. Basically I track on MDM, which means DSC half off, and Sport+ or DSC Off and Sport +. You can set your ESP mode and engine mode independently on the Competition

Ah, forgot about that difference.

[Carrera2RS]

I had a bad experience moving from PSS to larger PS4's on an F10 M5 with modded suspension, it went from fantastic feel to vague and unpleasant I will be moving from 245/265 to 255/275 but sticking with PSS, not risking a PS4 again

[///MPhatic]

Originally Posted by Carrera2RS

I had a bad experience moving from PSS to larger PS4's on an F10 M5 with modded suspension, it went from fantastic feel to vague and unpleasant I will be moving from 245/265 to 255/275 but sticking with PSS, not risking a PS4 again

Why not get an even better feel from a 200 tw tire? The 660 and 71RS will own the feel of the PSS. The PSS is OLD OLD OLD tech.

[Carrera2RS]

Originally Posted by ///MPhatic

Why not get an even better feel from a 200 tw tire? The 660 and 71RS will own the feel of the PSS. The PSS is OLD OLD OLD tech.

My favourite tyre on am M car was the Dunlop Formula R, that is 20 year old technology

What model is the 660, 71RS I thought it might be Yoko or Bridgestone but cant find them ?

[///MPhatic]

Originally Posted by Carrera2RS

My favourite tyre on am M car was the Dunlop Formula R, that is 20 year old technology

What model is the 660, 71RS I thought it might be Yoko or Bridgestone but cant find them ?

No disrespect to the original PSS, it's a fantastic tire, but there are absolutely newer/better technologies. Everyone knows the tire wears fast, gets very loud, and sucks in the rain. If you're going to have that kind of tire, why not get a better version of it?

Falken Azenis RT660 - 200 tw tire with 8/32nds of tread
Bridgestone Potenza RE71RS - 200 tw tire with 7/32nds of tread

The original 71RS was my favorite ever to-and-from track-day tire, and street tire. Think of these tires are just a bit more aggressive than the PSS, sacrificing some rain performance (when new), some wear, and some noise, but giving you a lot more grip. They are "almost hero" tires.

[DanG]

I don’t know. But I am perfectly happy with my PS4Ss. A great improvement from the stock Contis.

[///MPhatic]

Originally Posted by DanG

I don’t know. But I am perfectly happy with my PS4Ss. A great improvement from the stock Contis.

That's not saying much

[Carrera2RS]

Originally Posted by ///MPhatic

No disrespect to the original PSS, it's a fantastic tire, but there are absolutely newer/better technologies. Everyone knows the tire wears fast, gets very loud, and sucks in the rain. If you're going to have that kind of tire, why not get a better version of it?

Falken Azenis RT660 - 200 tw tire with 8/32nds of tread
Bridgestone Potenza RE71RS - 200 tw tire with 7/32nds of tread

The original 71RS was my favorite ever to-and-from track-day tire, and street tire. Think of these tires are just a bit more aggressive than the PSS, sacrificing some rain performance (when new), some wear, and some noise, but giving you a lot more grip. They are "almost hero" tires.

Looks like the RT660 isn't readily available in the UK, I cant even find it on the Falken website, are these tyres made in 255/35 and 275/35 ?

[///MPhatic]

Originally Posted by Carrera2RS

Looks like the RT660 isn't readily available in the UK, I cant even find it on the Falken website, are these tyres made in 255/35 and 275/35 ?

No need for 255/275 because it's a wide-running tire. That's what I've been trying to tell you. The 245/265 is wider than most 255/275's.

Look at the first photo, it's the OEM star spec PSS. Look at the TW vs the rear, it's extremely wide, and the rear is already wide.

Now compare that to the same size RT660...

Now compare that to any standard 300 tw 255/275 tire and you'll see what I mean.

[chris719]

Originally Posted by ///MPhatic

No need for 255/275 because it's a wide-running tire. That's what I've been trying to tell you. The 245/265 is wider than most 255/275's.

Look at the first photo, it's the OEM star spec PSS. Look at the TW vs the rear, it's extremely wide, and the rear is already wide.

Now compare that to the same size RT660...

Now compare that to any standard 300 tw 255/275 tire and you'll see what I mean.

New AD09 is fairly wide also, at least in the rear:

[///MPhatic]

Originally Posted by chris719

New AD09 is fairly wide also, at least in the rear:

Yup, my 255/275 is 8.6 & 9.6. But that's par for the course for Yokohama, they are cheat tires, always lying about this spec or that.

And after what they did with the new AD08R (bait and switch), and seeing how HEAVY these are, I'm very skeptical. Tirereviews is going to have to ADORE this tire for me to even consider it. Then it's going to have to beat the 660 and 71RS, which, well, won't happen.

[chris719]

Originally Posted by ///MPhatic

Yup, my 255/275 is 8.6 & 9.6. But that's par for the course for Yokohama, they are cheat tires, always lying about this spec or that.

And after what they did with the new AD08R (bait and switch), and seeing how HEAVY these are, I'm very skeptical. Tirereviews is going to have to ADORE this tire for me to even consider it. Then it's going to have to beat the 660 and 71RS, which, well, won't happen.

I'm pretty sure it will beat the 660 and 71RS as a street tire. The AD08/AD08R (not RS) was a very good tire still and very very old.