[PHX102]

Ok, odd question but has anyone driven a GT4 to compare the suspension compliance? The M2 gets beat up in reviews for having a stiff suspension… but I don’t mind it. Considering a GT4, but my fun roads are an hour drive or more the get too. How much more stiff is the GT4 for weekend fun drives? Does anyone have any insight to share? I get the are very different cars…I need to get out and drive one!

[rwemersonrw]

Gt4’s suspension is much better. Can’t even compare. M2C’s are stiff for the road but for the track it’s too soft. First budget upgrade should be spherical bushings.

[PHX102]

Originally Posted by rwemersonrw

Gt4’s suspension is much better. Can’t even compare. M2C’s are stiff for the road but for the track it’s too soft. First budget upgrade should be spherical bushings.

GT4 is “better” but is it more stiff/less comfortable than an M2? I assume so, but to what degree… track only, or no problem spirited driving for a couple hours?

I drove a Viper ACR and would have zero interest drive that thing on the road. It’s was truly impressive on the track, but punishing even on relatively smooth roads.

[jwr9152]

I had a 718 GT4 before getting a M2C. My M2 has the M Performance Suspension and find them very similar for comfort on the road, which isn't bad. Have taken long trips in both.

[rwemersonrw]

Originally Posted by jwr9152

I had a 718 GT4 before getting a M2C. My M2 has the M Performance Suspension and find them very similar for comfort on the road, which isn't bad. Have taken long trips in both.

Haven’t tried the m performance suspension. Still debating that upgrade. I think the gt4 suspension is less stiff than the m2C but more planted through turns.

M2C is more fun to drive on track and more rewarding and also more fun on back country roads but it sucks because gt4 times are just better.

There are much better impresssions than the one I just gave but I mean to keep it simple m2c is stiffer but more fun. Gt4 is less stiff, faster and less fun.

One other draw back is you cannot get a track alignment on a stock M2C suspension without camber plates and some extension crap on the rears that I can’t remember the name of.

[jwr9152]

Originally Posted by rwemersonrw

Haven’t tried the m performance suspension. Still debating that upgrade. I think the gt4 suspension is less stiff than the m2C but more planted through turns.

M2C is more fun to drive on track and more rewarding and also more fun on back country roads but it sucks because gt4 times are just better.

There are much better impresssions than the one I just gave but I mean to keep it simple m2c is stiffer but more fun. Gt4 is less stiff, faster and less fun.

One other draw back is you cannot get a track alignment on a stock M2C suspension without camber plates and some extension crap on the rears that I can’t remember the name of.

I'd say you are pretty spot on. The GT4 is a better track car from the show room. It has coilovers and is damnped well, but it also needs camber plates and toe links to get the alignment right. It's pushes in stock form.

The two drawbacks for me, where 1) it's so good, it doesn't take long to become boring. 2) There isn't much you can do to make it much faster other than aero or $30k on a Deman conversion.

The M2 may not be as good out of the box, but it has a much higher ceiling and is more fun and rewarding to drive.

With similar mods I'm faster by nearly 2 seconds in the M2C at Barber and slower by 0.02 seconds at NCM for half the price. Need to find time to get to Rosd Atlanta and Sebring to see how it compares there, but I think it's going to be faster at Sebring and really close at Road Atlanta.

[Maynard]

You said it yourself - you need to go out and drive them. Most of the input here is about 180 degrees off of what I've heard, and way more track focussed which seems off-target to your Q (trying to compare these for track use is wonky - one is a purpose-built street-legal track car, the other is a sports coupe that has track-worthy hardware). Both are far faster than any beginner/intermediate track driver.

[changster]

If no mods, I'd get the GT4 for its steering feel. The M2 and all its variations just doesn't have that feedback from the steering wheel, which is a big part of driver enjoyment.

Is the GT4 very compliant? I think so yes, just like I think the M2C is also very compliant while others love to say how stiff it is. It's all relative to your preference.

[rwemersonrw]

Originally Posted by changster

If no mods, I'd get the GT4 for its steering feel. The M2 and all its variations just doesn't have that feedback from the steering wheel, which is a big part of driver enjoyment.

Is the GT4 very compliant? I think so yes, just like I think the M2C is also very compliant while others love to say how stiff it is. It's all relative to your preference.

I agree it’s a matter of preference. For the street get an m2c for the track with all the Nannies off and to master an amazing car get an m2c to be fast with the other Porsches get a gt4 haha

[baege]

my GTS 4.0 was similar to the M2C I had in terms of ride comfort
I have been in GT4s, my impression was that they are definitely stiffer than a M2C
definitely more clearance issues too
one thing about the M2C I always appreciated was the fact that it was so accessible
can see out of it, decent ride and clearance
the GT4 will be more of an event but more of a chore in most contexts
but that NA flat six combined with that manual are epic

[Neusser]

Originally Posted by changster

If no mods, I'd get the GT4 for its steering feel. The M2 and all its variations just doesn't have that feedback from the steering wheel, which is a big part of driver enjoyment.

Is the GT4 very compliant? I think so yes, just like I think the M2C is also very compliant while others love to say how stiff it is. It's all relative to your preference.

The steering is slightly less dialed in, but the feedback from the chassis in general is good enough that it hardly matters.

TBH, even the feedback on my 540 ain't bad for what it is.

[jwr9152]

Originally Posted by baege

my GTS 4.0 was similar to the M2C I had in terms of ride comfort
I have been in GT4s, my impression was that they are definitely stiffer than a M2C
definitely more clearance issues too
one thing about the M2C I always appreciated was the fact that it was so accessible
can see out of it, decent ride and clearance
the GT4 will be more of an event but more of a chore in most contexts
but that NA flat six combined with that manual are epic

My GT4 would bottom out on everything speed bumps, my driveway, decent size bumps in the road. I always kept an extra set of under car aero pieces. I scrapes the diffuser more often than the front lip. I used to have to drive up on boards just to be able to fit a quick jack under it.

For me the seats are a lot more comfortable than the M2 seats, so that helped the ride qualit, and I had a DSC controller, so I could tune the suspension to soften it up for the street and stiffen it up for the track.

[chris719]

I can't compare to GT4, but suspension is the weakest point of the F87. It manages to be both soft and harsh at the same time.

[baege]

I realize the OP has seemed to haveleft the building, and I already commented on liveability, but feel like the OP might benefit from my experience in terms of overall enjoyment
most people really dont care about my car insights, so I will take any chance I can get to share em!
I had a 2020 manual M2C for 2 years and then moved to a manual Cayman GTS 4.0
I think whether the move makes sense for you depends in part on how much you care about NA motors and the emotion they bring
I would say that the M2C was a more enjoyable experience in most ways
very accessible fun, you can just jump in and have fun, easy to see out of, good clearance and short gearing and low end torque
really fun handling with its short wheelbase
its a little beast that easy to live with and find moments of fun

the GTS 4.0 was harder to see out of, had worse clearance, the manual was better but also more tiring in traffic
the handling limits were higher but that meant it was harder to have fun in a way
so the GTS 4.0 was harder to live with and in a way harder to find moments to have fun
but then once you found an open road and could unleash the big NA flat six combined with a nice manual, and take some sweepers, those moments of joy couldnt be matched in the M2C

all that being said, if the M2C had a naturally aspirated engine, I probably wouldnt have made the move to the GTS 4.0

[Neusser]

Originally Posted by baege

I realize the OP has seemed to haveleft the building, and I already commented on liveability, but feel like the OP might benefit from my experience in terms of overall enjoyment
most people really dont care about my car insights, so I will take any chance I can get to share em!
I had a 2020 manual M2C for 2 years and then moved to a manual Cayman GTS 4.0
I think whether the move makes sense for you depends in part on how much you care about NA motors and the emotion they bring
I would say that the M2C was a more enjoyable experience in most ways
very accessible fun, you can just jump in and have fun, easy to see out of, good clearance and short gearing and low end torque
really fun handling with its short wheelbase
its a little beast that easy to live with and find moments of fun

the GTS 4.0 was harder to see out of, had worse clearance, the manual was better but also more tiring in traffic
the handling limits were higher but that meant it was harder to have fun in a way
so the GTS 4.0 was harder to live with and in a way harder to find moments to have fun
but then once you found an open road and could unleash the big NA flat six combined with a nice manual, and take some sweepers, those moments of joy couldnt be matched in the M2C

all that being said, if the M2C had a naturally aspirated engine, I probably wouldnt have made the move to the GTS 4.0

Good post.

[rwemersonrw]

Originally Posted by baege

I realize the OP has seemed to haveleft the building, and I already commented on liveability, but feel like the OP might benefit from my experience in terms of overall enjoyment
most people really dont care about my car insights, so I will take any chance I can get to share em!
I had a 2020 manual M2C for 2 years and then moved to a manual Cayman GTS 4.0
I think whether the move makes sense for you depends in part on how much you care about NA motors and the emotion they bring
I would say that the M2C was a more enjoyable experience in most ways
very accessible fun, you can just jump in and have fun, easy to see out of, good clearance and short gearing and low end torque
really fun handling with its short wheelbase
its a little beast that easy to live with and find moments of fun

the GTS 4.0 was harder to see out of, had worse clearance, the manual was better but also more tiring in traffic
the handling limits were higher but that meant it was harder to have fun in a way
so the GTS 4.0 was harder to live with and in a way harder to find moments to have fun
but then once you found an open road and could unleash the big NA flat six combined with a nice manual, and take some sweepers, those moments of joy couldnt be matched in the M2C

all that being said, if the M2C had a naturally aspirated engine, I probably wouldnt have made the move to the GTS 4.0

I care! Haha 🤣🤣🤣

[rwemersonrw]

Originally Posted by jwr9152

I'd say you are pretty spot on. The GT4 is a better track car from the show room. It has coilovers and is damnped well, but it also needs camber plates and toe links to get the alignment right. It's pushes in stock form.

The two drawbacks for me, where 1) it's so good, it doesn't take long to become boring. 2) There isn't much you can do to make it much faster other than aero or $30k on a Deman conversion.

The M2 may not be as good out of the box, but it has a much higher ceiling and is more fun and rewarding to drive.

With similar mods I'm faster by nearly 2 seconds in the M2C at Barber and slower by 0.02 seconds at NCM for half the price. Need to find time to get to Rosd Atlanta and Sebring to see how it compares there, but I think it's going to be faster at Sebring and really close at Road Atlanta.

It has a heigher ceiling because more power can be extracted? It’s the only reason I can think of. Gt4 is better balanced and with the right suspension and alignment for each respective car the gt4 would still be superior. All conjecture on my part btw because I haven’t driven a modded gt4 only a stock one.
Also just curious why only really close at road Atlanta but faster at Sebring? I haven’t been to either of those tracks yet. Hopefully next season.

[jwr9152]

Originally Posted by rwemersonrw

It has a heigher ceiling because more power can be extracted? It’s the only reason I can think of. Gt4 is better balanced and with the right suspension and alignment for each respective car the gt4 would still be superior. All conjecture on my part btw because I haven’t driven a modded gt4 only a stock one.
Also just curious why only really close at road Atlanta but faster at Sebring? I haven’t been to either of those tracks yet. Hopefully next season.

Power is a big part of it. The only thing you can do to get power out of the GT4 is a full exhaust. With headers and 200 cell cats and a full exhaist i was only able to get 450 HP. Which cost close to $15k and was 126 dB.

The M2 also rotates much better, and at tracks like Barber it makes a big difference. I also brake a little later with the M2 vs the GT4. M2 struggles with quick direction change, putting power down out of slower corners, and stability in high speed sweepers compared to the GT4. With mods on the M2 you can fix a lot of that or at least make it much better.

M2 is really good at putting power down and at using all of its power. Down side is it pushes and has a worse tail wag under braking than the M2.

Road Atlanta is a fast track with no real slow corners, and the back straight is the only place where the M2 will have an advantage, but i don't think it will be a big advantage, because I was still 150s on the straight.

Sebring has a lot of slower corners followed by straights, so I think torque will play a bigger role there, as long as the M2 can put the power down. We shall see. Ran a 1:32 at Road Atlanta and a 2:20 at Sebring both on Falken 660s.

[Track/S]

Originally Posted by baege

I realize the OP has seemed to haveleft the building, and I already commented on liveability, but feel like the OP might benefit from my experience in terms of overall enjoyment
most people really dont care about my car insights, so I will take any chance I can get to share em!
I had a 2020 manual M2C for 2 years and then moved to a manual Cayman GTS 4.0
I think whether the move makes sense for you depends in part on how much you care about NA motors and the emotion they bring
I would say that the M2C was a more enjoyable experience in most ways
very accessible fun, you can just jump in and have fun, easy to see out of, good clearance and short gearing and low end torque
really fun handling with its short wheelbase
its a little beast that easy to live with and find moments of fun

the GTS 4.0 was harder to see out of, had worse clearance, the manual was better but also more tiring in traffic
the handling limits were higher but that meant it was harder to have fun in a way
so the GTS 4.0 was harder to live with and in a way harder to find moments to have fun
but then once you found an open road and could unleash the big NA flat six combined with a nice manual, and take some sweepers, those moments of joy couldnt be matched in the M2C

all that being said, if the M2C had a naturally aspirated engine, I probably wouldnt have made the move to the GTS 4.0

The S55 in the M2C is so good that with a good tune you can get 500hp and practically the same torque as the Porsche 4.0 has, I discovered it recently and now it is a real delight to drive the M2C in any environment, whether on wet or dry roads.
This week I will go to the dyno to see how much torque it has now.

Here is a video of how the car works now, in almost all turns I come out with full throttle, before I could not do that.

This is a m2c with about 20k euros on it.
20k in a Porsche isn't even enough for an full exhaust...

[jwr9152]

4.0 GT4 only has like 310 ft-lbs of torque. Stock M2C is like 406 ft-lbs, and it comes on at a lot lower rpms.

[Track/S]

S55 engine: If you need less torque just let me know.




411hp 445nm (325 ft-lb)

500hp 535nm (395 ft-lb)

530hp 585nm (430 ft-lb)


3 dyno test's on same day and same pump gas 93 (ron98).

[jwr9152]

Originally Posted by Track/S

S55 engine: If you need less torque just let me know.




411hp 445nm (325 ft-lb)

500hp 535nm (395 ft-lb)

530hp 585nm (430 ft-lb)


3 dyno test's on same day and same pump gas 93 (ron98).

Exactly. The GT4 4.0L has 310 ft-lbs at the crank, probably on 270 ft-lbs at the wheels. M2C has substantially more torque.