09-05-2024, 05:36 PM | #46 | |
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But according to EV adapters, electric is the only way to go. I don't care for petrol or EV as I am neither Elon Musk nor an Arab sheikh. I want a convenient, clean and enjoyable way of personal transportation and if one option is proven to be more sustainable and economical than others, I'd go for that.
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09-05-2024, 05:37 PM | #47 | |
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09-05-2024, 05:54 PM | #48 |
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Mirai sales started in 2014, note where EV's were at the same time period, note how the race is going a decade later. Any day now hydrogen will take off, only thing holding it back are people to buy them, no wait, people will buy them when they have a place to refuel them, no wait, nobody will build refuel stations until they have customers to use them, no wait, the problem is there aren't any places manufacturing hydrogen so stations can't be built, no wait, the real problem is refueling the car costs a fortune so nobody will buy the cars or build the stations.
Don't worry, BMW and Toyota are starting a joint venture with none of the problems above being worried about by the two of them, they want to "promote" the use. 2014 it was almost impossible to go out of your area with an EV and you couldn't leave Los Angeles with your Mirai, a decade later it isn't convenient to take an EV across the country and you can't leave CA with your Mirai, not even visit most of the state. Hydrogen is nothing more than the same dream it was a decade ago, just getting left further behind every day.
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09-05-2024, 05:56 PM | #49 |
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I’m taking this as some confirmation BMW is giving up on hydrogen ICE. They worked on the hydrogen E65/66 7er for years and they weren’t able to figure out how to make it work for mass production.
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09-05-2024, 06:01 PM | #50 | |
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09-05-2024, 06:03 PM | #51 | |
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It’s tough sometimes when you read things different than the way it was intended
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09-05-2024, 06:05 PM | #52 | |
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09-05-2024, 06:29 PM | #53 | |
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VW and Audi bet the farm on EV over here in Germany and people are going nuts as of late because VAG is now weighing massive layoffs and closing multiple manufacturing plants due to low demand (because the cars are junk). It is hard to overstate just how huge this is, given how many people it affects and just how tied into the government and economy these horrid companies are. Volvo also just backed out of making its fleet full electric by 2035. The whole thing is imploding because EVs are unsafe, poorly made, and were never meant to replace the ICEs--they are a means to get the plebes to "own nothing" in line with the Davos/EU 2030 Agenda. Go woke, go broke. |
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09-05-2024, 06:31 PM | #54 |
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And how do you propose that electricity gets to the cars? How many charging stations do you propose the city install on each street that have the ability to charge the individual user for the electricity distributed, that will work reliably, that can’t be disconnected by a$$holes walking down the street, that will stand up to constant use in all kinds of weather conditions and be able to withstand the abuse of vandals and not be destroyed? I’m sure there are still a good number of contingencies I didn’t think about.
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09-05-2024, 06:32 PM | #55 | |
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I am not convinced yet that the electric propulsion using an enormous amount of batteries is a clean solution as advertised. It is the same for petrol and hydrogen. We'll need to see which one is the lesser evil. When I mentioned the cabs in NY, it was to show that a technology cannot be very sophisticated and efficient in the beginning but it is worth considering and developing. This is also true for hydrogen despite some negative experiences in the beginning. At the end, economies of scale will dictate what will survive in the long run. I am all for progress and try out things before judging them blindly. I have a Taycan that we use in the family and although fast and sporty I do not like the driving feeling in comparison to my former ICE Porsches. Also, the inconvenience of finding a charging spot outside and mileage anxiety is not working out for me. But, it may get better in the future.
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09-05-2024, 06:32 PM | #56 | |
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If I may wade into the debate, 1) hydrogen is one of several “sustainable” solutions/alternatives to fossil fuel dependence. 2) Toyota is really leading the effort to build sustainable ICE, and I’m all for that…. 3) as ///M town indicated, EV will not be a solution for everyone. There’s no way that will work for two main reasons: apartment dwellers and home street/garage parking (cities). 4) there’s a “developed world”-centric mentality and we can forget about the developing world’s access to - and dependability on - electricity 5) EV is nice and reduces power/energy/fossil fuel usage by 2/3 to 3/4, but true fossil fuel reduction would be an engine that doesn’t require any non-renewable energy source beyond that which is required to build it and supply it. Like a hydrogen powered engine. |
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09-05-2024, 06:34 PM | #57 | ||
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09-05-2024, 06:37 PM | #58 | |
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There are many cities in the world that use hydrogen powered city busses as zero emission clean transportation option. But it is easier to store the fuel on a bus and fill it up at a huge garage facility than personal vehicles and privately owned gas stations.
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09-05-2024, 06:39 PM | #59 | |
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To date, this has not been adequately explained, which is partially connected to the rush to get people into these horrid vehicles. Over here in the EU, they were trying to ban all ICEs within about 10-15 years. The agenda has nothing to do with a "climate emergency" and much more to do with a reconfiguration of everything in society to go electric, track every possible metric one could track on a human, and geofence movement. Which is why everything is rushed. Were this a serious effort to deal with a real problem, none of this would go the way it has gone. |
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09-05-2024, 06:45 PM | #60 | |
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09-05-2024, 06:45 PM | #61 | |
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I’m impressed with your photo. I give you credit for providing the first answer anyone has ever given when I’ve posed the question in the past, which I’ve done numerous times in the EV thread. Does this actually exist anywhere in the real world? It looks pretty good, but I can tell you in cities like Chicago, New York, Boston, Philadelphia, etc those would be way too vulnerable to vandalism.
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09-05-2024, 06:51 PM | #62 |
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09-05-2024, 06:55 PM | #63 |
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BMW has tried to make and cell hydrogen vehicles for a long time now. I recall reading in Roundel two decades ago about the “Hydrogen 7”. Pictures of refueling at a demo hydrogen station in Germany were included.
Well, BMW never really introduced it. Toyota tried with the Mirai, a car which people only took on because it came with free hydrogen up to some point, making the car disposable when an owner’s free hydrogen credit ran out. Here in Silicon Valley it is tough to get hydrogen, and both here and in LA, the problem is compounded by unreliable supply. At one point there were only 3 hydrogen production plants in the US, two of which were in TX I believe, and both were offline after unusually severe Winter weather storms a few years back. No hydrogen to be had. Bad as it might be, EV infrastucture is ahead of hydrogen and doesn’t have the problem of transport of the hydrogen to the stations across distances in the USA which are much larger than in Germany. |
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09-05-2024, 07:03 PM | #64 | |
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09-05-2024, 07:41 PM | #65 | |
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“Jeff Schrade, National Coalition for Open Roads - Facts are Hard Things - After one trucking company tried to electrify just 30 trucks at a terminal in Joliet, Illinois, local officials shut those plans down, saying they would draw more electricity than is needed to power the entire city. - A California company tried to electrify 12 forklifts. Not trucks, but forklifts. Local power utilities told them that's not possible. - Electrification of the entire U.S. vehicle fleet would consume 40.3% of the current electricity demand. - Current electrical power build-out could expand U.S. transmission capacity by about 15% in the next 10 years.”
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09-05-2024, 07:56 PM | #66 | |
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In 1890, there were also "facts" that the transition from horses to gasoline was going to be a challenge. Didn't stop the innovation or ultimate change. And we're already well upon our way for the transition away from gas. |
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