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      04-08-2020, 09:08 PM   #23
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Originally Posted by Poochie View Post
I have never heard of any private individual wining a warranty claim civil lawsuit against an auto manufacture, so if you can pull off that miracle, then more power to you.

Better people have tired to prove an auto manufacture wrong and have failed (see below) but if you can cite some evidence of anyone succeeding, please enlighten me.


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Haha i never said it was going to be easy. But guess what. If it's even a close call, they will settle with you. You will never have heard about those cases because settlements are generally.....confidential. I'm not trying to get into a pissing contest. All i'm saying is that it will be the dealer/bmw who has to prove the aftermarket part contributed to the failure. Because that one guy's post as far as i read it, was just not correct.
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      04-08-2020, 09:34 PM   #24
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Originally Posted by infinitekidM2C View Post
Haha i never said it was going to be easy. But guess what. If it's even a close call, they will settle with you. You will never have heard about those cases because settlements are generally.....confidential. I'm not trying to get into a pissing contest. All i'm saying is that it will be the dealer/bmw who has to prove the aftermarket part contributed to the failure. Because that one guy's post as far as i read it, was just not correct.
NDAs are for huge money settlements. Nobody is going to front the cost of suing BMW over a warranty issue with a modded motor. And then get a settlement. Settlement of what? Fixing the car, then not talk about it? Those that could afford a lawsuit would save more money with just buying a new motor or whatever. When I said burden of proof, that means if the owner was shot down by the service department, the owner needs to put the work and money in. Good luck with that.
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      04-08-2020, 09:39 PM   #25
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Originally Posted by Brandt51 View Post
NDAs are for huge money settlements. Nobody is going to front the cost of suing BMW over a warranty issue with a modded motor. And then get a settlement. Settlement of what? Fixing the car, then not talk about it? Those that could afford a lawsuit would save more money with just buying a new motor or whatever. When I said burden of proof, that means if the owner was shot down by the service department, the owner needs to put the work and money in. Good luck with that.
NDA's are for huge money settlements? Virtually every settlement agreement has a confidentiality clause. I'm done. Wait i'm not. By "burden of proof" you meant that they would have to put work in? lol That is a term of art, meaning which party has the obligation to prove something as opposed to not having to prove something. There's always one party who has this burden. But ok.
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      04-08-2020, 09:42 PM   #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by infinitekidM2C View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Poochie View Post
I have never heard of any private individual wining a warranty claim civil lawsuit against an auto manufacture, so if you can pull off that miracle, then more power to you.

Better people have tired to prove an auto manufacture wrong and have failed (see below) but if you can cite some evidence of anyone succeeding, please enlighten me.


.
Haha i never said it was going to be easy. But guess what. If it's even a close call, they will settle with you. You will never have heard about those cases because settlements are generally.....confidential. I'm not trying to get into a pissing contest. All i'm saying is that it will be the dealer/bmw who has to prove the aftermarket part contributed to the failure. Because that one guy's post as far as i read it, was just not correct.
Hey, no beef, I was genuinely curious if there is such a case out there, that you might of dredge up but as far as I know, one was never publicize or reference to, under case law.

As someone who's personally been down that road before and thoroughly researched the subject, you're wasting your time going after an auto manufacture, if they have any remote evidence of tampering or altercation, that they can construe, as the cause of failure. Any lawyer with half a brain and is actually honest with you, will convey this fact.

Also, with some states, with civil cases, if you ultimately lose, you'll be on the hook for BMWs legal expenses. That's a huge gamble..

That's one if the pitfalls of going after someone civilly; in some cases, if you lose your case, you're also responsible for the losing side's legal fees.

I had put my oily gearbox in the trunk because the claims rep simply said; no, they're not going to cover it and the dealer wanted to charge me additional labor to reinstall the transmission to the vehicle, on top of the diagnosis fee, that I previously agreed to, if it wasn't covered.

At the juncture, you could stand in front of the dealer, all day and yell "Magnuson-Moss" at the top of your lungs but they'll just look at you, from the glass window, like a caged animal or court jester, for their amusement.

The best course of action is pretty obvious; if you can't budget for the unexpected expense of something major failing, while tuned, is don't risk it and remain stock and safe. You have to pay to play..

My auto insurance carrier, Geico, has an additional option called Mechanical Breakdown insurance, which covers any mechanical failure, even if the car is tuned. So I could care less if my warranty coverage is denied, so I'm figuratively wearing a double-bagged condom, as far as coverage is concern, so no bias in my perspective. Merely sharing some reasonable advice, for anyone that might have any disillusion about flash tuning and factory warranty coverage.
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      04-08-2020, 10:05 PM   #27
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Well this kinda went off the rails.

I dont know if anyone is quite 100% getting what i am saying.

Yes i understand that any aftermarket tuning will be cause for concern. But i'm not talking about that. I'm talking about taking the stock M2 CS tune from an M2 CS and putting that into an M2 Competition (how you would get such a thing is irrelevant right now, we can answer that later). Now the closest answer i've seen to this (someone mentioned) is that theres no way to tell that the tune one the car is the one from the Stock M2 CS. That might be true, but at the same time when i was tuning my BRZ, stock tunes that were backed up and saved just in case all came with a very specific code tag. I assume the same would be here. Regardless of the code tag, if a dealer saw that the ECU was messed with in any way (regardless of it being a stock tune) they could deny warranty. At least thats what i gathered based on what people are saying here.

For those of you guys saying "just tune it with blah blag tune"...not the point of the conversation here. I have no plans to tune in the near future and i dont really feel a need to either. This was purely an exercise in curiosity since this is a very special situation in which two exactly same cars are running two completley different tunes from the factory. A similar question would be, if you flashed the M2 Competition tune into an M2 CS, could they deny warranty? Sounds like yes.
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      04-08-2020, 10:13 PM   #28
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Originally Posted by xxyion View Post
Well this kinda went off the rails.

I dont know if anyone is quite 100% getting what i am saying.

Yes i understand that any aftermarket tuning will be cause for concern. But i'm not talking about that. I'm talking about taking the stock M2 CS tune from an M2 CS and putting that into an M2 Competition (how you would get such a thing is irrelevant right now, we can answer that later). Now the closest answer i've seen to this (someone mentioned) is that theres no way to tell that the tune one the car is the one from the Stock M2 CS. That might be true, but at the same time when i was tuning my BRZ, stock tunes that were backed up and saved just in case all came with a very specific code tag. I assume the same would be here. Regardless of the code tag, if a dealer saw that the ECU was messed with in any way (regardless of it being a stock tune) they could deny warranty. At least thats what i gathered based on what people are saying here.

For those of you guys saying "just tune it with blah blag tune"...not the point of the conversation here. I have no plans to tune in the near future and i dont really feel a need to either. This was purely an exercise in curiosity since this is a very special situation in which two exactly same cars are running two completley different tunes from the factory. A similar question would be, if you flashed the M2 Competition tune into an M2 CS, could they deny warranty? Sounds like yes.
I'm all about internet forum fights. And I may not be a lawyer per say...but I do watch a shitload of Law & Order (its about lawyers), and I've seen the Pelican Brief 4 times. So I def know what we're talking about here.
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      04-08-2020, 10:17 PM   #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Brandt51 View Post
I'm all about internet forum fights. And I may not be a lawyer per say...but I do watch a shitload of Law & Order (its about lawyers), and I've seen the Pelican Brief 4 times. So I def know what we're talking about here.
How does law coincide with anything that i've asked here? All i'm talking about is taking one stock tune and putting it in another car with the exact same specs but it just has a slightly different name and wondering if the dealership would care. Not talking about custom tunes, or ones found on the internet. I'm talking about the BMW official Stock tune of the M2 CS, into the M2 Competition, thats it.
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      04-08-2020, 10:34 PM   #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by xxyion View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Brandt51 View Post
I'm all about internet forum fights. And I may not be a lawyer per say...but I do watch a shitload of Law & Order (its about lawyers), and I've seen the Pelican Brief 4 times. So I def know what we're talking about here.
How does law coincide with anything that i've asked here? All i'm talking about is taking one stock tune and putting it in another car with the exact same specs but it just has a slightly different name and wondering if the dealership would care. Not talking about custom tunes, or ones found on the internet. I'm talking about the BMW official Stock tune of the M2 CS, into the M2 Competition, thats it.
The dealer or factory is not going to install a CS tune or any other software, for that matter, which that model wasn't originally marketed for.

So your only option is injecting a tune via an aftermarket supplier, which, as a result, possibly voids your powertrain warranty.
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      04-08-2020, 11:38 PM   #31
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If you want the same specs as a CS, BMW wants you to buy the CS.
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      04-09-2020, 02:30 AM   #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fenerbahce View Post
Where will you get this "authentic" M2CS software? I'm under the impression the best you can do is choose a "CS" labeled tune from a 3rd party (BM3, BPM, take your pick). That's not necessarily authentic. For all we know, they just make a map that has comparable output as the CS, or it is their approximation of BMW's CS map. At that point, it really doesn't matter if you wait for some new map to come out, or if you just take one of the choices available today. Let's not confuse a 3rd party "CS" map with authentic BMW software.
Clone the M2CS ECU

They did it with the E46 M3 CSL, don't see why they couldn't do it for the M2

Current CS map from BM3 is for M4, and we're talking about a car with a longer wheel base and larger wheels

While I i actually trust an OTS map from a reputable tuner, I just feel like BMW Engineers are better equipped to tune the engine... They've tested it on many circuits, they've got all the gear, they don't want to make it a warranty issue.

I just feel like waiting for an authentic CS map would be a safe strategy that wouldn't even force me mentally to do the crank hub fix.

Last edited by Dav3; 04-09-2020 at 02:35 AM..
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