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      11-12-2018, 01:39 PM   #45
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Nice time! AWD and the ZF8 with that 5.0:1 1st gear makes for a crazy 60' time don't it?

Are you adding the M2(C) or would it replace the 240?
The M240xi is already gone. Really enjoyed it while I had it. I'll just be adding the M2C to the garage. Milestone B-day is fast approaching and WTH. Only live once

The dig on the M240xi was jarring. Taking off over a small hill where I live felt like lift off. Just a blast driving it and hoping even more on this one.
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      11-16-2018, 01:51 AM   #46
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If it hits similar numbers as the M3/M4 in 1/4 I would consider buying one of these cars but if it traps low 1/4 mile numbers like the M240i then I would pass on it. I just saw that the VW GTI Clubsport beat it around the Nurburgring ring. Surprised to see it lose to VW GTI Clubsport around Nurburgring ring. The older Carrera S From 2011 also beat it around the Nurburgring. Too bad we never got that Clubsport in America. It clocked Nurburgring lap at 7:47 which is just 7 seconds off the new Cayman S time. It also beat the previous E92 M3 time around Nurburgring ring.
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      11-17-2018, 12:25 AM   #47
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Originally Posted by stylinexpat View Post
If it hits similar numbers as the M3/M4 in 1/4 I would consider buying one of these cars but if it traps low 1/4 mile numbers like the M240i then I would pass on it. I just saw that the VW GTI Clubsport beat it around the Nurburgring ring. Surprised to see it lose to VW GTI Clubsport around Nurburgring ring. The older Carrera S From 2011 also beat it around the Nurburgring. Too bad we never got that Clubsport in America. It clocked Nurburgring lap at 7:47 which is just 7 seconds off the new Cayman S time. It also beat the previous E92 M3 time around Nurburgring ring.
You should do some research.
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      11-17-2018, 01:35 AM   #48
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Originally Posted by stylinexpat View Post
If it hits similar numbers as the M3/M4 in 1/4 I would consider buying one of these cars but if it traps low 1/4 mile numbers like the M240i then I would pass on it. I just saw that the VW GTI Clubsport beat it around the Nurburgring ring. Surprised to see it lose to VW GTI Clubsport around Nurburgring ring. The older Carrera S From 2011 also beat it around the Nurburgring. Too bad we never got that Clubsport in America. It clocked Nurburgring lap at 7:47 which is just 7 seconds off the new Cayman S time. It also beat the previous E92 M3 time around Nurburgring ring.
Tf is Nurburgring ring?
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      11-17-2018, 04:16 AM   #49
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Originally Posted by ICantDrive4Sht View Post
Tf is Nurburgring ring?
It was an ABBA song. They only performed it in Germany. I’m hoping to see it in Mamma Mia 3 with Pierce taking that old light blue Z3 for a lap whilst singing it.
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      11-18-2018, 12:17 AM   #50
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Originally Posted by ICantDrive4Sht View Post
Tf is Nurburgring ring?
Tf?
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      11-18-2018, 08:57 AM   #51
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TF=Touristen Fahrten. Days when Nordschleife is open for public.
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      02-09-2019, 07:59 AM   #52
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Here is a street Qtr Mile time with MHD OTS tune with Wagner 200cel catted DP and Intercooler.
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      02-09-2019, 10:14 AM   #53
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https://www.bmwblog.com/2019/02/08/c...e-standard-m2/

they claim comp is only 1/10th faster in the 1/4
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      02-09-2019, 11:19 PM   #54
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Originally Posted by allthatisntnow View Post
https://www.bmwblog.com/2019/02/08/c...e-standard-m2/

they claim comp is only 1/10th faster in the 1/4
I wouldn't worry so much about that. Nothing has changed between the cars for it to have more traction. 3 MPH is right about what you would expect with 40 hp.
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      02-10-2019, 10:54 AM   #55
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I had a 6sp OG for 13k mi. and now a 6sp M2c for 4K mi. The OG felt snapper down low but ran out of steam @6k the M2c has a much better dynamic range . Pulls like a freight train all the way to 7.5k. Faster maybe/maybe not but a much more exciting engine . Still hate the clunky shift linkage . Same on both was hoping the M2c would be better. Carl
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      02-10-2019, 11:41 AM   #56
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Originally Posted by carl44 View Post
I had a 6sp OG for 13k mi. and now a 6sp M2c for 4K mi. The OG felt snapper down low but ran out of steam @6k the M2c has a much better dynamic range . Pulls like a freight train all the way to 7.5k. Faster maybe/maybe not but a much more exciting engine . Still hate the clunky shift linkage . Same on both was hoping the M2c would be better. Carl
I had DCT on the OG M2 and M2C. Can't speak for the grunt of the 6MT on either car, but the M2C takes off like a missle. It feels much faster out of the hole than the OG M2. It could just be DCT software improvements. The software is vastly improved on the M2C DCT. Quite comparable to a PDK now.
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      02-10-2019, 01:07 PM   #57
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Originally Posted by ChrisK View Post
I had DCT on the OG M2 and M2C. Can't speak for the grunt of the 6MT on either car, but the M2C takes off like a missle. It feels much faster out of the hole than the OG M2. It could just be DCT software improvements. The software is vastly improved on the M2C DCT. Quite comparable to a PDK now.
I’m sure that will be one of the main reasons I end up getting one, amongst all the other things I love about the car. I just want nothing to do with a ZF transmission and that will be the on,y choice at some point in the future.
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      02-11-2019, 03:20 PM   #58
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Originally Posted by dmboone25 View Post
I’m sure that will be one of the main reasons I end up getting one, amongst all the other things I love about the car. I just want nothing to do with a ZF transmission and that will be the on,y choice at some point in the future.
What's wrong with ZF? They make PDK. Or do you just mean their ZF8 torque converter auto?
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      02-11-2019, 04:02 PM   #59
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Originally Posted by allthatisntnow View Post
What's wrong with ZF? They make PDK. Or do you just mean their ZF8 torque converter auto?
My apologies - just the latter. I loved my PDK, but the more garden variety ZF8 leaves a lot to be desired in my opinion.
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      02-11-2019, 08:52 PM   #60
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My apologies - just the latter. I loved my PDK, but the more garden variety ZF8 leaves a lot to be desired in my opinion.
I'm going to both agree and disagree with you. I had two ZF8's, with two sets of programming, two engines, but both in the F30 chassis. The non-Sport programming running with the N20 didn't make me terribly happy from a stop, and it worked too hard to keep the RPM's down. It wasn't thrilling, but then I didn't find my 328i-X thrilling overall. Manual mode helped it shine, and it was at that point the best auto I'd driven (though I had little experience with them outside of rental cars from 1991 forward).

The sport programming and the B58 was still a little too classically "slush-box" programmed for my tastes in most modes, but the way it handled a stab of the throttle and the downshifts I was demanding from it was epic. 8th to 4th or 5th in less time than it takes to blink and mated to the B58, it was stellar. There were a few things I didn't like.

1. Under hard acceleration, the transmission was too smooth. It robbed some of the feel out of an acceleration run. Added to the insulated feel of the car overall, I didn't get the excitement I wanted from it.

2. Left to its own devices in the first two drive modes, it was still too fond of 8th gear. The shift paddles helped, and I often didn't let it go into 8th unless I was really doing a relaxing cruise.

My ending complaint about it was in line with how I felt about my 340 at the end. It was too smooth and so competent, I wasn't feeling the joy of driving much. That worries me about the ZF8 in M cars, but it was so much better than any torque-converted auto has any right to be.

How I feel about the M-DCT 7-speed after a bit over 5 months:

During acceleration runs, even moderate ones, the transmission is brilliant. I know what it's doing and at least get some feedback from it. The fact that if you hit the paddles it STAYS in manual mode and puts the transmission in "3" is fantastic. Manual shifts are brilliantly executed when doing what the transmission logic thinks I'm going to do next. For an "auto", it's tons of fun some of the time.

With the two ZF-8's, I'm glad I got to own both of them. I got to see a real difference that can done with almost the same hardware but different programming. That was one neat part of the experience of having those two cars.

But:
The DCT's logic when I do something it isn't expecting is terrible compared to the ZF-8. Cruising at a steady speed, hit the gas and it downshifts...eventually. That particular action is massively slower than the ZF-8. This is a transmission that needs to be run in manual mode to work well, and that's understandable based on how DCT's work.

Manual mode is the key, of course, and asking it to downshift when it hasn't gotten ready for me to do so is better in manual mode, but it's still slow if I want to drop multiple gears quickly. The DCT is faster during acceleration but, sorry, it isn't as good when confronted with multiple speed changes up and down the gear range as I drive for a while having fun (safe fun, not crazy stupid fun).

Long story short: Don't dismiss the ZF-8. Go watch the "Engineering Explained" video on it if you want to see why it's so good and used in so many cars vs. the ZF-9. Even the "boring" nature of the up-shifts is likely alterable in software. I would LOVE to drive a ZF-8 equipped M5 and see what they did with it (or an 850...sigh...).

I suppose this is where I'll actually put into words my 5.5 month statement on the DCT:

I'm not entirely happy with it. Despite periodic left knee problems, if I could turn back the clock it's possible I would have passed on this build and waited to get a manual. Faster or not, the DCT is not living up to my hopes, and over all I think it's a less-capable transmission than the ZF-8 overall (except in a straight line on an acceleration run). Even if the ZF-8 wouldn't be as good on a 1/4 mile run, I think it would be better on a whole track.
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      02-12-2019, 09:45 AM   #61
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bri1042 View Post
I'm going to both agree and disagree with you. I had two ZF8's, with two sets of programming, two engines, but both in the F30 chassis. The non-Sport programming running with the N20 didn't make me terribly happy from a stop, and it worked too hard to keep the RPM's down. It wasn't thrilling, but then I didn't find my 328i-X thrilling overall. Manual mode helped it shine, and it was at that point the best auto I'd driven (though I had little experience with them outside of rental cars from 1991 forward).

The sport programming and the B58 was still a little too classically "slush-box" programmed for my tastes in most modes, but the way it handled a stab of the throttle and the downshifts I was demanding from it was epic. 8th to 4th or 5th in less time than it takes to blink and mated to the B58, it was stellar. There were a few things I didn't like.

1. Under hard acceleration, the transmission was too smooth. It robbed some of the feel out of an acceleration run. Added to the insulated feel of the car overall, I didn't get the excitement I wanted from it.

2. Left to its own devices in the first two drive modes, it was still too fond of 8th gear. The shift paddles helped, and I often didn't let it go into 8th unless I was really doing a relaxing cruise.

My ending complaint about it was in line with how I felt about my 340 at the end. It was too smooth and so competent, I wasn't feeling the joy of driving much. That worries me about the ZF8 in M cars, but it was so much better than any torque-converted auto has any right to be.

How I feel about the M-DCT 7-speed after a bit over 5 months:

During acceleration runs, even moderate ones, the transmission is brilliant. I know what it's doing and at least get some feedback from it. The fact that if you hit the paddles it STAYS in manual mode and puts the transmission in "3" is fantastic. Manual shifts are brilliantly executed when doing what the transmission logic thinks I'm going to do next. For an "auto", it's tons of fun some of the time.

With the two ZF-8's, I'm glad I got to own both of them. I got to see a real difference that can done with almost the same hardware but different programming. That was one neat part of the experience of having those two cars.

But:
The DCT's logic when I do something it isn't expecting is terrible compared to the ZF-8. Cruising at a steady speed, hit the gas and it downshifts...eventually. That particular action is massively slower than the ZF-8. This is a transmission that needs to be run in manual mode to work well, and that's understandable based on how DCT's work.

Manual mode is the key, of course, and asking it to downshift when it hasn't gotten ready for me to do so is better in manual mode, but it's still slow if I want to drop multiple gears quickly. The DCT is faster during acceleration but, sorry, it isn't as good when confronted with multiple speed changes up and down the gear range as I drive for a while having fun (safe fun, not crazy stupid fun).

Long story short: Don't dismiss the ZF-8. Go watch the "Engineering Explained" video on it if you want to see why it's so good and used in so many cars vs. the ZF-9. Even the "boring" nature of the up-shifts is likely alterable in software. I would LOVE to drive a ZF-8 equipped M5 and see what they did with it (or an 850...sigh...).

I suppose this is where I'll actually put into words my 5.5 month statement on the DCT:

I'm not entirely happy with it. Despite periodic left knee problems, if I could turn back the clock it's possible I would have passed on this build and waited to get a manual. Faster or not, the DCT is not living up to my hopes, and over all I think it's a less-capable transmission than the ZF-8 overall (except in a straight line on an acceleration run). Even if the ZF-8 wouldn't be as good on a 1/4 mile run, I think it would be better on a whole track.
Pretty much sums up what my thoughts are too. Having used PDK, DCT and ZF8 i love them all for different reasons. I agree with the ZF8 being the most adaptable but, too smooth for its own good in a sport application. Mine only started giving a bit of shift ferocity/ feedback after id tuned the 235 and it tore through the revs with a bit more purpose. The DCT in the M2C seems very smooth for a dual clutch mind even in mode 3. Would be interested to see what something like the GTS software map would do for it. I do like how you can tell when its actually changing gears though. Something too easily lost with the 8 speed. I don't think id feel short changed with an M ZF8 though, but perhaps id be more anxious of this prospect if i hadn't had a ZF8 first.
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      02-12-2019, 10:46 AM   #62
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisK View Post
I'm going to do the same.

I think that's so overlooked by so many. A BMW factory tune map already exists for the M2C.

Re-Tune the De-Tune!
Mine will be tuned in the next few weeks with BM3, I'll post it in my build thread!
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      02-12-2019, 01:34 PM   #63
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Quote:
Originally Posted by allthatisntnow View Post
Pretty much sums up what my thoughts are too. Having used PDK, DCT and ZF8 i love them all for different reasons. I agree with the ZF8 being the most adaptable but, too smooth for its own good in a sport application. Mine only started giving a bit of shift ferocity/ feedback after id tuned the 235 and it tore through the revs with a bit more purpose. The DCT in the M2C seems very smooth for a dual clutch mind even in mode 3. Would be interested to see what something like the GTS software map would do for it. I do like how you can tell when its actually changing gears though. Something too easily lost with the 8 speed. I don't think id feel short changed with an M ZF8 though, but perhaps id be more anxious of this prospect if i hadn't had a ZF8 first.
FWIW, the Chrysler Hellcat drag guys are doing every ZF8 owner a huge favor by funding tuning research. It's broken things wide open for tuning on the Audi stuff equipped with ZF8, and I have to admit, I've been a DCT/DSG fan, in concept, for a long time, but proper shift tuning on the ZF8 is going to make DCTs obsolete. It can shift as fast as a DCT in straight sequential shifts, but is much faster in almost every other situation

The key is having the performance-oriented M guys pry the in-house ZF8 tuning away from the straight-up automatic, "slushbox" group.

...and yes, I despise traditional automatics
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      02-12-2019, 02:38 PM   #64
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Apparently the zf8 is more visceral like a DCT in the new m5. Have not tried it myself.
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      02-12-2019, 02:45 PM   #65
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Drove both. M2C just feels and handles better. Engine is amazing.
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      02-12-2019, 03:27 PM   #66
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Quote:
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Apparently the zf8 is more visceral like a DCT in the new m5. Have not tried it myself.
That wasn't my experience with the F90 M5, but literally all of that experience was on track doing hot laps. I was driving the car at its limits, and there were times when it was very slow to do a 4-3 and the 3-2 downshifts under heaving trailbraking (revs were clearly low enough to effect the shift to the lower gear). I suppose the upshifting speed was pretty quick since I don't recall thinking about it -- too focused on driving the car. This was all in manual shifting mode. Anyway, to me, it didn't feel like a DCT at all.
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