M2 CS roof defect

Hypeber · 02-11-2022, 05:57 AM

Hi guys,

My friend just noticed there is a problem with the cf hood. I am not sure how to describe it but it just have white spots. I search the forum and found some weave issue, but not similar to my friend’s. I just want to see if anyone experienced or seen this issue.

https://flic.kr/p/2n35NDj
https://flic.kr/p/2n2WzDV

If you guys know anything about this, please let me know.

Thank you.

M3R1 · 02-11-2022, 06:34 AM

Yikes! That does not look good...

Golden3ye · 02-11-2022, 07:14 AM

Could it be light hitting the texture of the top layer differently. Perhaps some irregularity on how it was laid?

mchart · 02-11-2022, 07:22 AM

Looks like the resin/clear coat failing to me. Do they bring the car through automated washes a lot? Does it sit out in the sun a lot?

Jimjamz · 02-11-2022, 07:59 AM

Pictures aren't clear but could be a chemical residue from some kind of a wash that's been baked on in the sun?

Hypeber · 02-11-2022, 09:29 AM

Hi all, my friend doesn’t drive the car that much. It only has about 1000km since he bought it and always garaged.BMW is willing to replace the roof, but just the local shops in Macau aren’t that good in this particular job. I am worry it will have more problems after replacing it here.

e92ben · 02-11-2022, 09:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mchart

Looks like the resin/clear coat failing to me. Do they bring the car through automated washes a lot? Does it sit out in the sun a lot?

Automated washes won't do this. There's a factory defect. Should be covered under warranty.

IcewaterPete · 02-11-2022, 02:37 PM

Good news is that BMW will replace it. Hopefully your local dealer knows how to do it!

krm · 02-12-2022, 06:45 AM

Please keep us posted on the outcome. We share the same franchise dealer between Macau and HKG.

Btw, how many M2CS are there in Macau?

mfarrzhp · 02-12-2022, 06:54 AM

Hard to tell the cause from those pictures, but it seems odd that those spots would just appear on their own if it's a defect. Hopefully they are able to fix the issue without replacement.

Last roof issue reported was different but seemed to take a long time to get the replacement roof installed.

Jimjamz · 02-12-2022, 03:27 PM

Definitely looks like a chemical-related issue not a structural one with the roof. Regardless of what is said, if the owner is very confident in how the car had been treated since acquired I'd be asking the dealer what happened during pre-delivery.

Beenz · 02-13-2022, 10:14 PM

That image reminds me of the dodgy paint on 90s cars when left in the sun. Problem with top protective coatings.
At least it’s probably not structural and BMW has agreed to fix it….?

Wah · 02-15-2022, 10:11 AM

Oh man... that looks a lot like the clear coat failing on the garbage ebay CF mirror caps I had on my E92 back in the day. I really hope it isn't, because then we all have a problem.

mchart · 02-15-2022, 10:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Beenz

That image reminds me of the dodgy paint on 90s cars when left in the sun. Problem with top protective coatings.
At least it’s probably not structural and BMW has agreed to fix it….?

Only way to fix that is replacing the entire roof panel since it's a structural part. You can't just respray it without removing the panel because you have to bake the resin/clear combo on.

AxM2CS · 02-15-2022, 09:28 PM

Hadn't noticed anything (the car's a daily and not garaged - pretty dirty through the recent winter weather), but got my car back from my PPF installer this week. He did the annual touch-up and showed me where the same CF delamination - or whatever it is - is happening on the front-driver and rear-driver side of the roof (pics below). Not as big an area as the OP's images show, but very ominous and I'll be watching it like a hawk. Pretty certain it started during/since December - I would have noticed it in the Fall cleaning the car.

Taking the car in for 10K service soon and will begin the dialogue and fair warning with BMW. Would really like to avoid a roof replacement as I fear that could lead to problems every bit as onerous as this CF issue, but it all depends whether it is heading towards structural failure or is in essence only a cosmetic issue. Fun times. As always, comments are appreciated.

chris719 · 02-16-2022, 01:29 AM

Could be wrong, but OPs defects seem to be near the places that the roof has bulges or flexible spots? If the clear is not compromised on top then it is obviously a factory defect.

M3R1 · 02-16-2022, 08:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AxM2CS

Hadn't noticed anything (the car's a daily and not garaged - pretty dirty through the recent winter weather), but got my car back from my PPF installer this week. He did the annual touch-up and showed me where the same CF delamination - or whatever it is - is happening on the front-driver and rear-driver side of the roof (pics below). Not as big an area as the OP's images show, but very ominous and I'll be watching it like a hawk. Pretty certain it started during/since December - I would have noticed it in the Fall cleaning the car.

Taking the car in for 10K service soon and will begin the dialogue and fair warning with BMW. Would really like to avoid a roof replacement as I fear that could lead to problems every bit as onerous as this CF issue, but it all depends whether it is heading towards structural failure or is in essence only a cosmetic issue. Fun times. As always, comments are appreciated.

From these pics it looks to me like the adhesion of the carbon fiber and the thick clear epoxy is coming apart (between the two layers).

sdhotwn · 02-16-2022, 08:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by M3R1

From these pics it looks to me like the adhesion of the carbon fiber and the thick clear epoxy is coming apart (between the two layers).

Yeah, looks like a separation due to stress in the lamination in those new pics. Rather concerning.

M3R1 · 02-16-2022, 08:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sdhotwn

Yeah, looks like a separation due to stress in the lamination in those new pics. Rather concerning.

Indeed.. It might not be an issue on garage queens, however perhaps this could be a real issue as it pertains to the longevity of these roofs.

The value of these cars will be affected if it is discovered that the construction of the roof leads to this condition. If it is a flaw in overall manufacturing design it might not really present itself until we are out of warranty. Even if it is only aesthetic, it would be a deal breaker for me.

AxM2CS · 02-16-2022, 10:34 AM

I agree the most likely cause is the clear coat separating from the CF through thermo-cycling (hot-cold and vice-versa), and the clear coat pulling and tearing or fraying the CF. Not good.

medphysdave · 02-16-2022, 08:44 PM

What was the production date of the car?

echoshotz · 02-16-2022, 09:10 PM

BMW had these issues on the E92 with the cf roof. A small, but still significant number of people had this pop up, though much further down the road. But it seems they've not figured it out quite yet. I wouldn't fear a roof replacement done at BMW, and I also don't think its very repairable. Maybe bandaid-able but the only "Cant tell it was there" solution is a replacement afaik. Had a buddy fight this issue on his E92. I think his best guess was just UV damage to the carbon and clear

02-11-2022, 05:57 AM	#1
Hypeber Enlisted Member 8 Rep 37 Posts Drives: 2 x BMW 1M, M3 CSL, M6 F12 Join Date: Dec 2016 Location: Macau iTrader: (0)	M2 CS roof defect Hi guys, My friend just noticed there is a problem with the cf hood. I am not sure how to describe it but it just have white spots. I search the forum and found some weave issue, but not similar to my friend’s. I just want to see if anyone experienced or seen this issue. https://flic.kr/p/2n35NDj https://flic.kr/p/2n2WzDV If you guys know anything about this, please let me know. Thank you.
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02-11-2022, 06:34 AM	#2
M3R1 Colonel 2173 Rep 2,356 Posts Drives: ///M2cs Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: NJ iTrader: (5)	Yikes! That does not look good... __________________ BSM ///M2cs, 6spd
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02-11-2022, 07:14 AM	#3
Golden3ye Lieutenant 500 Rep 569 Posts Drives: 2020 BMW M2 CS Join Date: Mar 2012 Location: Missouri iTrader: (0)	Could it be light hitting the texture of the top layer differently. Perhaps some irregularity on how it was laid? __________________ 2020 M2 CS \| Black Saphire Metallic \| DCT / CCB SOLD: 2012 135i \| Le Mans \| 6MT 1986 535i \| Cirrus Blue Metallic \| 5MT
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02-11-2022, 07:22 AM	#4
mchart First Lieutenant 433 Rep 352 Posts Drives: 2002 M Coupe Join Date: Jan 2021 Location: NA iTrader: (0)	Looks like the resin/clear coat failing to me. Do they bring the car through automated washes a lot? Does it sit out in the sun a lot?
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02-11-2022, 07:59 AM	#5
Jimjamz Colonel 4595 Rep 2,208 Posts Drives: G81 M3 Touring (Frozen Black) Join Date: Dec 2012 Location: Australia iTrader: (0) Garage List 2023 BMW G81 M3 Tou ... [8.00]	Pictures aren't clear but could be a chemical residue from some kind of a wash that's been baked on in the sun?
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02-11-2022, 09:29 AM	#6
Hypeber Enlisted Member 8 Rep 37 Posts Drives: 2 x BMW 1M, M3 CSL, M6 F12 Join Date: Dec 2016 Location: Macau iTrader: (0)	Hi all, my friend doesn’t drive the car that much. It only has about 1000km since he bought it and always garaged.BMW is willing to replace the roof, but just the local shops in Macau aren’t that good in this particular job. I am worry it will have more problems after replacing it here.
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02-11-2022, 02:37 PM	#8
IcewaterPete Lieutenant Colonel 2166 Rep 1,539 Posts Drives: 2020 F33 M Sport, 2021 M2C 6MT Join Date: Sep 2020 Location: Illinois iTrader: (0)	Good news is that BMW will replace it. Hopefully your local dealer knows how to do it!
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02-12-2022, 06:45 AM	#9
krm Private First Class 347 Rep 139 Posts Drives: F87 CS, G21 B58 Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: HKG iTrader: (0)	Please keep us posted on the outcome. We share the same franchise dealer between Macau and HKG. Btw, how many M2CS are there in Macau?
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02-12-2022, 06:54 AM	#10
mfarrzhp Captain 1493 Rep 901 Posts Drives: 2018 M3 Competition Join Date: Mar 2010 Location: FL iTrader: (0) Garage List 2018 BMW X2 28i (Da ... [5.50] 2020 BMW X5 [6.00] 2020 BMW M2 CS [10.00]	Hard to tell the cause from those pictures, but it seems odd that those spots would just appear on their own if it's a defect. Hopefully they are able to fix the issue without replacement. Last roof issue reported was different but seemed to take a long time to get the replacement roof installed.
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02-12-2022, 03:27 PM	#11
Jimjamz Colonel 4595 Rep 2,208 Posts Drives: G81 M3 Touring (Frozen Black) Join Date: Dec 2012 Location: Australia iTrader: (0) Garage List 2023 BMW G81 M3 Tou ... [8.00]	Definitely looks like a chemical-related issue not a structural one with the roof. Regardless of what is said, if the owner is very confident in how the car had been treated since acquired I'd be asking the dealer what happened during pre-delivery.
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02-13-2022, 10:14 PM	#12
Beenz Private First Class 153 Rep 161 Posts Drives: M2CS Join Date: Aug 2020 Location: Aus iTrader: (0)	That image reminds me of the dodgy paint on 90s cars when left in the sun. Problem with top protective coatings. At least it’s probably not structural and BMW has agreed to fix it….?
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02-15-2022, 10:11 AM	#13
Wah IG@i.am.wah 2779 Rep 3,815 Posts Drives: M2 CS Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: NJ iTrader: (4) Garage List 2022 Tesla Model Y ... [0.00] 1974 BMW 2002 [0.00] 2020 BMW M2 CS [0.00]	Oh man... that looks a lot like the clear coat failing on the garbage ebay CF mirror caps I had on my E92 back in the day. I really hope it isn't, because then we all have a problem.
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02-15-2022, 09:28 PM	#15
AxM2CS Lieutenant 543 Rep 405 Posts Drives: E28 535i >E39 528iT >E39 540i6 Join Date: Mar 2020 Location: Arlington, VA iTrader: (0)	Same Problem Beginning Here Hadn't noticed anything (the car's a daily and not garaged - pretty dirty through the recent winter weather), but got my car back from my PPF installer this week. He did the annual touch-up and showed me where the same CF delamination - or whatever it is - is happening on the front-driver and rear-driver side of the roof (pics below). Not as big an area as the OP's images show, but very ominous and I'll be watching it like a hawk. Pretty certain it started during/since December - I would have noticed it in the Fall cleaning the car. Taking the car in for 10K service soon and will begin the dialogue and fair warning with BMW. Would really like to avoid a roof replacement as I fear that could lead to problems every bit as onerous as this CF issue, but it all depends whether it is heading towards structural failure or is in essence only a cosmetic issue. Fun times. As always, comments are appreciated. Attached Images
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02-16-2022, 01:29 AM	#16
chris719 Major General 7343 Rep 7,301 Posts Drives: '08 M Roadster Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: NJ iTrader: (0)	Could be wrong, but OPs defects seem to be near the places that the roof has bulges or flexible spots? If the clear is not compromised on top then it is obviously a factory defect.
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02-16-2022, 10:34 AM	#20
AxM2CS Lieutenant 543 Rep 405 Posts Drives: E28 535i >E39 528iT >E39 540i6 Join Date: Mar 2020 Location: Arlington, VA iTrader: (0)	I agree the most likely cause is the clear coat separating from the CF through thermo-cycling (hot-cold and vice-versa), and the clear coat pulling and tearing or fraying the CF. Not good.
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02-16-2022, 08:44 PM	#21
medphysdave Brigadier General 4585 Rep 4,687 Posts Drives: M2 CS \| 85 of 592 Join Date: Apr 2015 Location: Charlotte, NC iTrader: (3)	What was the production date of the car?
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02-16-2022, 09:10 PM	#22
echoshotz Private First Class 207 Rep 100 Posts Drives: M2 Comp Join Date: Aug 2020 Location: Knoxville TN iTrader: (2)	BMW had these issues on the E92 with the cf roof. A small, but still significant number of people had this pop up, though much further down the road. But it seems they've not figured it out quite yet. I wouldn't fear a roof replacement done at BMW, and I also don't think its very repairable. Maybe bandaid-able but the only "Cant tell it was there" solution is a replacement afaik. Had a buddy fight this issue on his E92. I think his best guess was just UV damage to the carbon and clear
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