[w3rkn]

Originally Posted by SCOTT26

No. This one will be exclusively for Europe.

Exactly... quite smug.


But it's ok^, there will be plenty of Mustangs for Europeans to buy...

[BMW269]

Originally Posted by w3rkn

It's called Mustang GT350...

No, it is a 1 Series M Hatch, like M2 but Hatch. Not sure if 3 or 5 doors, not sure if wide-body, not sure if it will really come.

[Devon K]

Stang sounds amazing - but the thing is just too bloody big.

[Wilson]

Dare I say a higher output version, or X Drive??

Scott, more info please, don't leave us hanging!

[SCOTT26]

They are evaluating the M1 for Europe against the European performance hatches. Because based on the Coupe it would be if given the green light only RWD but could be offered in both 3dr and 5dr.

[IEDEI]

Originally Posted by SCOTT26

They are evaluating the M1 for Europe against the European performance hatches. Because based on the Coupe it would be if given the green light only RWD but could be offered in both 3dr and 5dr.

has the M2 actually been greenlit within BMW? last I heard there was some major concerns about M4 overlap (turbocharged, similar weight, etc). When the 1M came out the engines were very contrasting between the 1M and the E92 M3 and the weights were further apart.

[pikcachu]

BMW M2 (F87) is a Go! Coming Late 2015 - Early 2016
http://www.2addicts.com/forums/showthread.php?t=976863

[bradleyland]

Originally Posted by SCOTT26

They are evaluating the M1 for Europe against the European performance hatches. Because based on the Coupe it would be if given the green light only RWD but could be offered in both 3dr and 5dr.

When you say M1, I take that to mean a 1-series derived M-car, right? Is BMW going to trot out the M1 moniker? That'd be a real shame after the naming debacle that was the "1-series M Coupe".

[as7920]

Originally Posted by bradleyland

When you say M1, I take that to mean a 1-series derived M-car, right? Is BMW going to trot out the M1 moniker? That'd be a real shame after the naming debacle that was the "1-series M Coupe".

Please let's not start this all over again!

[Mark's M]

Originally Posted by SCOTT26

No. This one will be exclusively for Europe.

Because us in North America could never appreciate a hatch version??? Good lord, will BMW ever give us a break!

[BimmerMat135]

Originally Posted by Mark's M

Because us in North America could never appreciate a hatch version??? Good lord, will BMW ever give us a break!

X2 BMW should have bring the f20 long time ago rather than bring a Fwd active tourer. BMW complain that the touring version aren't selling but why are they limiting transmission, drivetrain and engine option? A base 320i f31 would be much more interesting than the active tourer. Same goes with the F11.

[w3rkn]

Originally Posted by Mark's M

Because us in North America could never appreciate a hatch version??? Good lord, will BMW ever give us a break!

All the Focus ST's selling like hotcakes, but for the older crowd, the M235i would've been nice. But SCOTT says those are for only Europe privileged class..

Have never heard a solid reason why BMW didn't bring it over, other than NA is undeserving. Kinda like the RS3.. (again smug)




Be nice if Ford dropped a Focus RS in America.. (using the 2.3 eb & awd) perfect side-car for winter.

[bradleyland]

Originally Posted by w3rkn

Be nice if Ford dropped a Focus RS in America.. (using the 2.3 eb & awd) perfect side-car for winter.

I thought the RS was coming to America? Supposedly it's getting 300+ HP courtesy of the 2.3L EcoBoost I4 out of the 2015 Mustang, but will be FWD only. The FWD thing obviously ruins the formula. What good is 300+ HP with wrong-wheel drive?

[w3rkn]

Yeah, FWD = yuck..

[Cavpilot2k]

RS3 is irrelevant and not worthy of consideration because they are making it auto only (and yes, DCT still counts as an auto).

[onatuesday]

Originally Posted by Cavpilot2k

RS3 is irrelevant and not worthy of consideration because they are making it auto only (and yes, DCT still counts as an auto).

Funny that you say that because it's pretty obvious that Ferrari, Lamborghini, Maserati, Mercedes, Porsche, Audi, Jaguar,etc feel that drivers like you are irrelevant since manuals make up ~10% of sales? The whole auto-only thing matters only because people complain endlessly about it rather than it actually affecting sales. Look at the Viper that comes in only manual...nobody is buying it or giving a crap about it.

I agree that every car should have an auto and a manual option but when the Porsche 911 GT3 which is one of the most driver focused cars in the world only comes in auto at some point you just have to get over it. Or at least acknowledge that the auto-only thing makes cars "irrelevant" only to a small minority like yourself.

[Diver]

Originally Posted by trinim3

Funny that you say that because it's pretty obvious that Ferrari, Lamborghini, Maserati, Mercedes, Porsche, Audi, Jaguar,etc feel that drivers like you are irrelevant since manuals make up ~10% of sales? The whole auto-only thing matters only because people complain endlessly about it rather than it actually affecting sales. Look at the Viper that comes in only manual...nobody is buying it or giving a crap about it.

Manual transmissions are slipping into history, especially on high end cars. The best automatics shift faster and use less fuel.

[Wilson]

The term 'dinosaur' comes to mind.

In the future manual transmission will only be available in budget models and trucks, many will find that sad, but that wont change the fact it will be true.

[Burgwood]

Audi is not relevant,
they just have greatly built cars with massive amounts of power.
But still they feel like Volkswagens with extra ketchup.

I can't say they are ugly, can't say they are nice...
They give me no feeling at all actually.

[Tony]

Originally Posted by Diver

Manual transmissions are slipping into history, especially on high end cars. The best automatics shift faster and use less fuel.

Not to mention manual transmissions are quite archaic. Like crank starters that the cars from the early 20th century used to have. "More involving"? I guess, but I'd rather have a key or a push button start.

Same goes for manuals transmissions. Clutch pedal manuals are too cumbersome. I don't need to get 3 out of my 4 extremities involved just to feel satisfied with a gear shift. I don't need for my body to look like I'm convulsing (or having a seizure) just to feel involved with the driving. The closer we can get to F1 type gear shifts the better IMO.

[Cavpilot2k]

I knew I would get some goats with the manual only comment.
And yes, I speak only for myself and a small contingent of diehards.

I like manuals because I feel genuinely more involved via mechanical linkage to the car. I like that I have greater control over the car because it will never upshift or downshift except when I want it to and I have other control advantages via varying degrees of clutch engagement (although that last bit is only useful a small percentage of my driving time). I honestly hate it when an automatic shifts for me uncommanded.

All that should come with the context that I am a helicopter pilot and that direct mechanical linkage with all four appendages is a similar feel. It just makes me feel like a part of the machine in a way that the disconnected autos don't, but that is my personal preference (and that of a small percentage of enthusiasts).

Do modern high-end autos and DCTs outperform manuals? In most cases yes. Why are the high-end cars (Lambos, Ferrarris, etc) going to them almost exclusively? Because they want to eke out every last possible fraction of a second for performance numbers, and because we are an increasingly push-button automated society. The nintendo/playstation generation wants simple, and there is nothing wrong with that. I just prefer to do it myself.

So,

The RS3 is irrelevant for me and lots of others because it won't come in manual. That, and I have yet to drive any audi that had decent steering feel, especially compared to Bimmers.

[Tony]

Originally Posted by Cavpilot2k

I knew I would get some goats with the manual only comment.
And yes, I speak only for myself and a small contingent of diehards.

I like manuals because I feel genuinely more involved via mechanical linkage to the car. I like that I have greater control over the car because it will never upshift or downshift except when I want it to

DCT transmissions stay in gear in manual mode. You can bounce it off the limiter all day in first gear if you want.

Originally Posted by Cavpilot2k

and I have other control advantages via varying degrees of clutch engagement

That's the only advantage I can see with the clutch pedal, but that also comes with disadvantages. Namely bumper to bumper traffic, where you have to engage and disengage the clutch pedal a million times in 100 yards. It's like your pedaling a bicycle.

Originally Posted by Cavpilot2k

All that should come with the context that I am a helicopter pilot and that direct mechanical linkage with all four appendages is a similar feel. It just makes me feel like a part of the machine in a way that the disconnected autos don't, but that is my personal preference (and that of a small percentage of enthusiasts).

A car isn't a helicopter. F1 cars do not require that level of involvement and are the fastest track cars in the world. F1 drivers aren't complaining. And all 4 extremities can still be involved, I left foot brake.

Originally Posted by Cavpilot2k

Do modern high-end autos and DCTs outperform manuals? In most cases yes.

If everything else is equal they outperform the manuals in all cases.

Originally Posted by Cavpilot2k

Why are the high-end cars (Lambos, Ferrarris, etc) going to them almost exclusively? Because they want to eke out every last possible fraction of a second for performance numbers, and because we are an increasingly push-button automated society. The nintendo/playstation generation wants simple, and there is nothing wrong with that. I just prefer to do it myself.

How about more efficient, less cumbersome, and just plain better? Someone drove a Porsche 918 Hybrid and he couldn't imagine that car with a clutch pedal, and this guy was a die hard manual fan. He realized that all that clutch pedal mumbo jumbo takes away from the actual driving. Also, try to change gears mid-corner with a clutch pedal manual (like you would need to do in like say in a increasing or decreasing radius turn). The entire attitude of the chassis will get upset. A DCT can shift mid corner without any drama. Can you imagine an F1 car with a Clutch pedal and a column mounter shifter? lol!

Originally Posted by Cavpilot2k

So,

The RS3 is irrelevant for me and lots of others because it won't come in manual. That, and I have yet to drive any audi that had decent steering feel, especially compared to Bimmers.

You and others aren't the future (Thank God). You are the past and you don't want to let go of Archaic technologies. Lambo, Ferrari knew better and decided to tell those "I have to have a Manual" folks to go take a walk. They basically told those folks "What the heck do you know?"

To each his own. But the clutch pedal manual is the past, not the future. It has been surpassed by less cumbersome, faster and more efficient automatics.