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      06-19-2019, 10:12 PM   #23
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I guess this is turning into another MT vs. DCT thread...what the hell, I'll play.

I don't think the vast majority of people who order a MT think the DCT is a bad transmission. We understand this transmission shifts faster than we can and provides enhanced performance and fuel economy (well, depending on driving style). And the vast majority of MT owners/orderers totally respect anyone's transmission choice. Hell, it's your car.

For me, a MT defines the driving experience and I appreciate that BMW stilll chooses to offer this option on some models. The fact that it will truly be dead soon is an added incentive to order one last new car with a MT....

I'm also a bit sad that the DCT is dead (for the time being anyway) for BMW M cars. I know the ZF transmission is very good, but for those who prefer DCT I wish BMW would invest in one that can handle the high torque of the newer M models.
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      06-19-2019, 10:34 PM   #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CosmosMpower View Post
I got a rental M2C in Germany for ED and it had the DCT, it was god awful. The stupid thing could never decide what gear it was in, it was jerky when slowing down to a stop and sometimes it wouldn't upshift and just held at high rpm's while accelerating (1/2 to 3/4 throttle) for about 3-4 seconds before deciding to shift up. I remember the DCT being not so great in my wife's E90 M3 and it doesn't seem to have improved in the 19 M2C either. Glad I got the 6MT.
Shots fired!

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      06-20-2019, 09:55 AM   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CosmosMpower View Post
I got a rental M2C in Germany for ED and it had the DCT, it was god awful. The stupid thing could never decide what gear it was in, it was jerky when slowing down to a stop and sometimes it wouldn't upshift and just held at high rpm's while accelerating (1/2 to 3/4 throttle) for about 3-4 seconds before deciding to shift up. I remember the DCT being not so great in my wife's E90 M3 and it doesn't seem to have improved in the 19 M2C either. Glad I got the 6MT.
That was the setting it was in. I have never had those issues with DCT in my e92 M3, M2 or M2C.

imho, DCT has been massively improved since the e92 M3.
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      06-20-2019, 12:21 PM   #26
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All my past cars have been MT cars so naturally I ordered my F80 M3 with the MT in 2017. I had it for 2 years and got a 19 F83 M4 DCT and it is so much more fun and responsive than the MT. I never thought Id be saying it but for M cars, DCT is the more suitable trans. This article mirrors my view.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/jalopni...1710072869/amp
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      06-20-2019, 12:27 PM   #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rupes View Post
Shots fired!

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      06-20-2019, 12:29 PM   #28
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Probably one of the worst in car discussions I have ever heard.
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      06-20-2019, 12:30 PM   #29
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Best car reviewer on YT !!
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      06-20-2019, 12:46 PM   #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ssabripo View Post
Why?

I don't know why this forum has a subculture with a raging hardon for 6MT... I'm 47, and have ALWAYS driven Manual cars, but since the F80, and now my M2C, I started driving DCT and never looked back.

PDK may be smoother and better in certain ways, etc, but DCT is a PHENOMENAL transmission, and thus far, I am hoping to continue on it. The next gen G80 M3 will have manual or ZF automatic, so between those I likely would choose manual, but DCT has been nothing short of great for me, and certainly agree that it is one of the best transmissions out there.
Well, I'm 60 and I grew up driving MT on my first car, a '74 2002. I've also since mastered heel & toe and double clutching on my other numerous BMW's over the years.. My 2 previous M2's (MY16 & MY17) and my current M2C are all DCT.

Like "ssabripo" said, I lever looked back. DCT is really that good, especially on the track. BTW, I do agree DCT on M2C has been remapped and is less "violent" now between 1-2, 2-3 shifts. I kind of miss the tires chirping between shifts.
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      06-20-2019, 12:47 PM   #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by skier219 View Post
Same deal for me. Supra looks excellent otherwise, and it is certainly a better $$ value than similar hardware with a BMW badge. It would have been a slam dunk for me.
Saw the Supra in the flesh the other day FUGLY from almost any angle to me- all subjective of course. From the duck billed turned up rear end to the Bugatti like "arch" in the front- the BMW version looks soo much better (apples and oranges cuz of the convertible I know) but the Supra just looks way too Japanese Origami to me. Maybe on the track dynamically great? So maybe 1000 customers or so will appreciate that? The M2 is similarly "pumped up" but in such a cool way that it will look great forever. Your mileage may vary.
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      06-20-2019, 02:01 PM   #32
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I don't understand why preference is met with such contempt. Some like DCT. Some like 6MT. You guys argue like women.
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      06-20-2019, 02:03 PM   #33
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I personally feel pleasure with being mechanically involved with a manual transmission. The time/efficiency of DCT doesn’t outweigh that factor for me. Not that important for 99.9% of my driving habits.
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      06-20-2019, 02:06 PM   #34
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It's whatever makes you happy.

Ps-
I like my Manuals -
so fun with the twin turbo
pulls via manual gear manipulation ⚡️
To me -
way more than just the everyday
( yawn ) dct shifts say from my X5M.
aka
"thanks computer"
for another perfect shift ///
burp and fart. Gone. Fun. But sporting ?
Manual...
It's just more tactile. And in a sense
even just a little more purist and ultimately
if not at its base slightly more technical in the sense of hand eye coordination ?
( clutch, heel toe, hand shift )

Manual / cloth / CCBs always a good start 🚆
take for example the valuation on just such a car:

https://bringatrailer.com/listing/2016-porsche-911-r-4/

#3pedalsnob
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      06-20-2019, 02:08 PM   #35
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I really feel like these modern boosted engines benefit from a DCT/ZF tranny. They feel COMPLETELY different between the two trannies. I think the DCT keeps the boost consistent and linear and it feel like it pulls like crazy without a break. The manual, while more engaging, seems to lag between shifts if you aren't going balls to the wall. I'm not a race driver but I've been driving stick since 18 and I'm 38 with many track days under my belt so I'm not talking out of my ass.

Now I have a E46 M3 track car and the manual fits that engine perfectly! Maybe N/A and stick is just a better match?
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      06-20-2019, 02:27 PM   #36
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Maybe the MT has a pause when shifting but when it's in gear, hold on for a gforce slam back in your seat!
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      06-20-2019, 02:31 PM   #37
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MT is more engaging, but slower.
DCT is faster, but less engaging.

Yadda, yadda, yadda, nothing new.
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      06-20-2019, 03:33 PM   #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ssabripo View Post
Why?

I don't know why this forum has a subculture with a raging hardon for 6MT... I'm 47, and have ALWAYS driven Manual cars, but since the F80, and now my M2C, I started driving DCT and never looked back.

PDK may be smoother and better in certain ways, etc, but DCT is a PHENOMENAL transmission, and thus far, I am hoping to continue on it. The next gen G80 M3 will have manual or ZF automatic, so between those I likely would choose manual, but DCT has been nothing short of great for me, and certainly agree that it is one of the best transmissions out there.
Not sure what's so hard to understand about some people having more fun with one transmission vs. the other. I've driven a ton of DCT cars and I personally have a lot more fun in M cars with the manual trans. My previous 340i was manual but I never loved the shifting experience in that car and actually almost wished I had gotten that one with the 8AT. My current M3 is manual and I've driven probably 15 stock and modified F8x M3/M4s with DCT since I got my manual one and I always find myself preferring the manual transmission.

The reason for people being so vocal about the manual transmission is because the option has disappeared from most fun cars on the market and with the transition to electric powertrains and autonomous driving, it will be gone for good. If we beg loudly enough, some companies listen and keep making a few more cars with the transmission we enjoy like BMW (in M cars at least) and Porsche with the new 718 GT4.
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      06-20-2019, 04:14 PM   #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ssabripo View Post

I don't know why this forum has a subculture with a raging hardon for 6MT...
Who says my "hardon" is for 6MT?
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      06-20-2019, 04:15 PM   #40
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I've never seen this reviewer before but his smugness is overwhelming. His words are saying he generally likes the car but all I see is abject SMARM.
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      06-20-2019, 04:36 PM   #41
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ellipsis212 View Post
I've never seen this reviewer before but his smugness is overwhelming. His words are saying he generally likes the car but all I see is abject SMARM.
That's his style, nothing new..

He's the self-depreciating/dry humor type but his reviews are pretty objective and informative.
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      06-20-2019, 04:49 PM   #42
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Quote:
Originally Posted by akkando View Post
I think that might be because he isn't a regular car reviewer that works for a website with a staff. It seems EVERY reviewer from websites will spend at least some amount of time trying to convince us of their car guy credibility by talking about how the MT is what they would prefer, of course that's what they would buy, everyone else should buy it too, it's more fun, it's the correct transmission, why would you buy an auto, especially on a car like this etc, but the DCT is fine for an auto. Then they move on. They also probably throw in a pros and cons list at the end that something like Pros: car is pretty fun and smallest M car. Cons: suspension harsher than town car and doesn't seat 6 with costco cargo + dog so no practical. Such insight!
This.
i feel like the whole 'We want a manual because we are pro drivers' thing really is tiresome.

- before my ZF 440i i had an FK2 type R, with one of the best manual shifts in any car. It was fun - for the road. And I get that - when you're driving on the road you can't exactly push the limits - 1. because it would be unsafe, bottom line, and 2. many corners are blind, we don't have wide twisty roads with lots of viewing distance (in England at least)

In these instances - i can see how a manual makes total sense. You are more involved with the car, simply in terms of the number of physical inputs required to drive it.

but lets not kid ourselves - changing gear is not a skill. Neither is heel and toeing (i struggle to understand why some people cannot do it...it really is not hard.).

and when it came to track driving, manual shifting, for me, detracts from the focus of going fast. With paddle shifting comes the ability to Left foot brake going into an apex, being able to balance the car perfectly with throttle and brake, without any delay.

Paddleshift opens up a whole new area of real skill to exploit, freeing up the left foot, adding a new dimension of control.
Using a manual meanwhile is just a pain in the ass, requiring you to have to heel and toe on track otherwise imbalancing the car going down gears due to transmission locking, which then means you cannot be as precise on the brakes.

If i ever buy a car like the M2 competition, it would only be for the track (otherwise what is the point), in which case i would have to get the DCT.
But sure, for the road - i totally get why many people would prefer a manual, there is no doubt that it is more engaging.

But in all honesty i would rather spend Half the money and buy a used Radical SR3, a car trailer, and a towbar for my 440i.
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      06-20-2019, 05:08 PM   #43
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Only new drivers think driving a MT is a special skill - lol -
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      06-20-2019, 05:09 PM   #44
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I think shifting properly is a skill. I've driven with so many people that have been driving manuals all their lives and still can't shift worth a damn. There is a certain satisfaction in getting the correct gear and rpm for a given driving situation without a jerk. That being said, if you drive a DCT in manual mode you could conceivably do the same thing. I have a feeling that most people with a DCT drive them in auto mode though.
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