[stein_325i]

Originally Posted by Poochie

I guess that's a matter of opinion.

The 911 cluster has a more simplistic layout but BMW's digital setup, although it is "busy" I really don't believe it's that bad, once you get use to it. "Love" might be a strong word but I could grow to like it.

I look forward to see what they do with it for the next generation M2. I'm a tech junky, so I'm hoping stuff like Night-Vision gets added in.
A digital cluster pretty much set the stage for such advancements, something an analogy-like cluster could never even dream of.

New 911 Gauge cluster is really great looking, I prefer their mix of digital + analogue, although a problem with it is, the steering wheel cuts off the end two gauages, meaning you can never see how much gas is left in the tank!

[Davil]

Originally Posted by BigKutta

Ok, so here are the pics. It is colored at the redline and you can see it with my car in the garage on a dark day. one pic is with the headlights on, other is with them off. I guess it is really dim and not backlit, so its hard to see when outside and driving.

Any chance you have red green colour blindness? I ask as it is quite common for males and it's something I've had to support in my own apps as red can be hard for some people to see.

[BigKutta]

Originally Posted by Davil

Any chance you have red green colour blindness? I ask as it is quite common for males and it's something I've had to support in my own apps as red can be hard for some people to see.

No, I'm pretty sure I dont. But I disproved my own point by posting pics. Its there, its just very faint in day light (as others have noted). But yes, father time is definitely weakening my eyes

[twboy1999]

change the lighting output with the scroll as per the previous post

I daily my car since 2018. Even during bright day light I have no problem seeing the redline.

2016 m2 was a different issue. lol

[Triple Seven]

Naw, even with the scroll wheel all the way on can barely see it.

[Killed by Death]

Damn hard to see in the daylight with glare. Glad I have a DCT. IMHO, redline should be loud and in your face! And no, I'm not going to switch steering wheels.

[Poochie]

Originally Posted by Killed by Death

Damn hard to see in the daylight with glare. Glad I have a DCT. IMHO, redline should be loud and in your face! And no, I'm not going to switch steering wheels.

I change gears by sounds and feel, I don't need to see the RPMs gauges.

It's there and it's cute but I could honestly take it or leave it. If you know your car, you know exactly where the gears and power taps out and when it needs to up shift .

Even on S2000 that REVs to 9,000 RPM, you feel the gear build up and lost of power; seeing the pretty red digital color scheme populate is just extra gravy.

[BigKutta]

Originally Posted by twboy1999

change the lighting output with the scroll as per the previous post

I daily my car since 2018. Even during bright day light I have no problem seeing the redline.

2016 m2 was a different issue. lol

Its all the way up, still very faint

[BigKutta]

Originally Posted by Killed by Death

Damn hard to see in the daylight with glare. Glad I have a DCT. IMHO, redline should be loud and in your face! And no, I'm not going to switch steering wheels.

Yes, that was what I was hoping for in an M car

[Killed by Death]

Originally Posted by Poochie

I change gears by sounds and feel, I don't need to see the RPMs gauges.

It's there and it's cute but I could honestly take it or leave it. If you know your car, you know exactly where the gears and power taps out and when it needs to up shift .

Even on S2000 that REVs to 9,000 RPM, you feel the gear build up and lost of power; seeing the pretty red digital color scheme populate is just extra gravy.

I'm from the south and like gravy

[Poochie]

Originally Posted by Killed by Death

I'm from the south and like gravy

Fair enough but I was merely pointing out that it's not really necessary to enjoy the vehicle, especially if you're working with a DCT.

I recently discovered my car has another gauge I don't need called a "speedometer" :

Usually, I slow down when the my radar detector starts screaming or their is flashing lights behind me..

[KevinM]

Well, I'm not going to argue that a redline which is clearly visible is absolutely needed even for a MT car, at least for an experienced driver. That said, I'm not understanding the reason to minimize it either. My E39 M5 and Z4M coupe have wonderful tachometers. The illuminated redline (or warning zone; the illuminated red line remains the same) progressively becomes higher as the engine warms up. This, in combination with the permanently displayed oil temp gauge allows the driver to know exactly when he can hammer the car (circumstances permitting, of course). Some of you may know that the head of the M division during the E46/E39 era, Albert Biermann, is now the head of the N division at Hyundai. By report (I have not driven one), he has incorporated the same type of redline that he used fro the E39 and E46 into his N cars.

Again, not a big deal, but I would still love the E39 M5 tach in the M2C, along with a dedicated oil temp gauge.

[Poochie]

Originally Posted by KevinM

Well, I'm not going to argue that a redline which is clearly visible is absolutely needed even for a MT car, at least for an experienced driver

If you consider yourself an 'experienced driver' and you can't hear and feel your engine laboring or revving out too fast, in a particular gear, you have no place behind the wheel.

In a street car, especially an automatic, the RPM gauge is there merely for vanity. The vehicle's electronics will bridle the power from blowing itself up and in a manual transmission, if you're obtuse enough to miss a gear and 'money-shift' the motor, even the largest RPM gauge world would not save you anyways.

On a race-car, it's a different story; the engine needs to be kept in very narrow rev range to get the best power. Also, a race engine is running at such an excessive level of performance without the assistance of typical vehicle management, making it like two steps away from blowing itself up. So a REV counter and shift lights are essential to its operation.

The RPM gauge and shift lights was originally adopted from race cars as a form of imitation/flattery and it stuck throughout the years because every driver on his way to pick up the kids, groceries or drive to the office, needs to feel like he's Jeff Gordon, at the edge of the apex.

[KevinM]

Originally Posted by Poochie

If you consider yourself an 'experienced driver' and you can't hear and feel your engine laboring or revving out too fast, in a particular gear, you have no place behind the wheel.

In a street car, especially an automatic, the RPM gauge is there merely for vanity. The vehicle's electronics will bridle the power from blowing itself up and in a manual transmission, if you're obtuse enough to miss a gear and 'money-shift' the motor, even the largest RPM gauge world would not save you anyways.

On a race-car, it's a different story; the engine needs to be kept in very narrow rev range to get the best power. Also, a race engine is running at such an excessive level of performance without the assistance of typical vehicle management, making it like two steps away from blowing itself up. So a REV counter and shift lights are essential to its operation.

The RPM gauge and shift lights was originally adopted from race cars as a form of imitation/flattery and it stuck throughout the years because every driver on his way to pick up the kids, groceries or drive to the office, needs to feel like he's Jeff Gordon, at the edge of the apex.

Uh...I think we are saying the same thing? Did you read my post? Anyway, to recap, a redline is not needed for those who have experience (again, I'm talking about a MT here, as I don't have automatic cars except my SUV) but I just like seeing it there. No vanity involved, just preference. I'm not talking about shift liighs either. My F80 M3 had those - completely worthless in my opinion and I ignored them. I liked the older M car redline system mainly because it gave a gauge of what the temperature of the engine was. Unforutately, it was aligned with water temp, not the oil temp so you need to pay attention to that gauge as well.

[Poochie]

Originally Posted by KevinM

Uh...I think we are saying the same thing? Did you read my post? Anyway, to recap, a redline is not needed for those who have experience (again, I'm talking about a MT here, as I don't have automatic cars except my SUV) but I just like seeing it there. No vanity involved, just preference. I'm not talking about shift liighs either. My F80 M3 had those - completely worthless in my opinion and I ignored them. I liked the older M car redline system mainly because it gave a gauge of what the temperature of the engine was. Unforutately, it was aligned with water temp, not the oil temp so you need to pay attention to that gauge as well.

Maybe I misinterpret what you where trying to convey when you stated:

"a redline which is clearly visible is absolutely needed even for a MT car"

Sounded you where claiming they're essential to the platform. My apologies, carry on.

[KevinM]

Originally Posted by Poochie

Maybe I misinterpret what you where trying to convey when you stated:

"a redline which is clearly visible is absolutely needed even for a MT car"

Sounded you where claiming they're essential to the platform. My apologies, carry on.

Here is the complete sentence, as in my original unedited post (bold added):

"I'm not going to argue that a redline which is clearly visible is absolutely needed even for a MT car, at least for an experienced driver."

But, apology accepted.

[doughboy]

Does anyone actually watch the tacho and change at redline?

Jeez, just drive , the rev limiter and your butt will tell you if you're tone deaf.

[Tag]

Max kW/hp: 302/405 @ 5230–7000 RPM
Max Nm/ft-lb: 550/406 @ 2350-5230 RPM

[pz619]

I gotta disagree that a redline isn’t necessary for an experienced driver. It becomes less important once you become familiar with the car, but if you are just learning it, it’s 100% necessary. Here is my example: Use to drive a S2000 with a 9k redline. If you go by sound you are ALWAYS going to short shift. Eventually you learn to shift by sound at 9k. When I switched back to BMW if I went by sound, I’d always be bouncing off the rev limiter.

It all boils down to experience with your car. But someone who is new should absolutely learn by looking at the rev counter as you develop your relationship with your car.

[BigKutta]

Originally Posted by pz619

I gotta disagree that a redline isn’t necessary for an experienced driver. It becomes less important once you become familiar with the car, but if you are just learning it, it’s 100% necessary. Here is my example: Use to drive a S2000 with a 9k redline. If you go by sound you are ALWAYS going to short shift. Eventually you learn to shift by sound at 9k. When I switched back to BMW if I went by sound, I’d always be bouncing off the rev limiter.

It all boils down to experience with your car. But someone who is new should absolutely learn by looking at the rev counter as you develop your relationship with your car.

^^^This

[MrMurkle]

Originally Posted by BigKutta

No, I'm pretty sure I dont. But I disproved my own point by posting pics. Its there, its just very faint in day light (as others have noted). But yes, father time is definitely weakening my eyes

Turn the brightness up. It's the scroller next to the headlight beam knob. But most likely you have horrendous eyesight and probably shouldn't be allowed to drive.

[BigKutta]

Originally Posted by MrMurkle

Turn the brightness up. It's the scroller next to the headlight beam knob. But most likely you have horrendous eyesight and probably shouldn't be allowed to drive.

Wow, thanks for your constructive comments. You sound like a great guy