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      03-27-2019, 12:50 AM   #89
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Originally Posted by XRAVE View Post
I should change my wording, most, not everyone. Maybe you think the S55 sounds better but most don't. I would say if you found key words on the internet for the M3/M4 it would be bad sound. With a simple JB4, you can add 60 HP to the wheels with no other mods. I agree heat soak may become a problem but more so on a drag strip than on a track. A FMIC would fix that if power was really what your looking for.

My main point was I think BMW had to go with the S55 from a finical perspective and if they had their choice would have stuck with the N55. Usually when the make a comp model, they keep the same engine and add little to no extra power. Why would the spend money to rework the N55 again rather than stick the S55 in from the beginning? They could hav easily detuned it further and removed some of the cooling to be around 370-380. I don't agree it's not to compete with the M3/M4 because it already competes with the N55 in it.

Engines and specifically sound I think are a big selling point of a car. Look at the E92 vs the F80. There are a lot of factors but I'd say a majority say, the 8400 RPM V8.
A JB4 won't add 60hp at the wheels to a S55 using straight gas and definitely won't add 60hp at the wheels to the N55.

A bigger intercooler will lower intake temperature but cannot alleviate heat soaking caused by the overworking turbocharger and from the engine accumulating too much heat because of the extra power.

Sound preference is personal and I understand why you prefer the N55 and the S65 V8 is a no brainer. Though most of the people who disliked the S55 acoustically are N55 owners so I am not sure if the preference is fully impartial. 'Beauty is in the eye of the beholder' is a common phenomenon.

I would argue that BMW M actually preferred the S55 on the M2 because it is an engine fully developed by the M division. It makes sense to have standardisation. That is, M model only uses M engine.

On the OG M2, the S55 was given a hold by the marketing department because it might dent the marketability of the M3/M4 at the time. Now there are no more S55 M3s and M4 sales are slow anyway, they are more interested to have the M2C to fill in the void before the next M3/M4 appears thus the hold has been uplifted.
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      03-27-2019, 02:17 AM   #90
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Originally Posted by Karmic Man View Post
Though most of the people who disliked the S55 acoustically are N55 owners so I am not sure if the preference is fully impartial. 'Beauty is in the eye of the beholder' is a common phenomenon.

I would argue that BMW M actually preferred the S55 on the M2 because it is an engine fully developed by the M division. It makes sense to have standardisation. That is, M model only uses M engine.

On the OG M2, the S55 was given a hold by the marketing department because it might dent the marketability of the M3/M4
I agree. I'm not going to say the S55 sounds better than the N55, but it's hardly the worst sound in the world as most N55 drivers would have you believe. I'd much rather have the extra 40HP/TQ for the change in sound. It's a very subjective subject so hardly a real tangible argument, anyway.

I feel BMW placed the N55 in the OG M2 because the S55 would've competed too closely to it's bigger M3/M4 brothers in their prime, for sales. The M2 was essentially an entry level M-car anyway and they needed to cut costs. Perhaps the M2C is what the M Division wanted the OG M2 to be in the beginning, but couldn't do. Now that the M2C is basically standing alone, the M division doesn't have to restrict it to prevent it from overshadowing it's bigger brothers and impeding sales at the higher price points. Additionally, the fact BMW was forced into this decision by emissions standards ultimately benefited all M2C owners as it probably wouldn't have happened otherwise.
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      03-27-2019, 06:34 AM   #91
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I don t need a e46 M3 in size.

I just hope they make the new M2 shorter wheelbase. And a lot lighter smaller car. The engine power of 370hp is more then enough. The new car needs lightness and more nimble.

If you want a power house buy a new m3 or m5.

M2 should stay a nimble drivers car which gives lots of fun on nice B roads.

If they make it bigger and heavier again with more horsepower to compensate the weight then i am done buying M cars for fun in driving.

My M2C feels like an heavy pig already!
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      03-27-2019, 06:55 AM   #92
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Karmic Man View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by XRAVE View Post
I should change my wording, most, not everyone. Maybe you think the S55 sounds better but most don't. I would say if you found key words on the internet for the M3/M4 it would be bad sound. With a simple JB4, you can add 60 HP to the wheels with no other mods. I agree heat soak may become a problem but more so on a drag strip than on a track. A FMIC would fix that if power was really what your looking for.

My main point was I think BMW had to go with the S55 from a finical perspective and if they had their choice would have stuck with the N55. Usually when the make a comp model, they keep the same engine and add little to no extra power. Why would the spend money to rework the N55 again rather than stick the S55 in from the beginning? They could hav easily detuned it further and removed some of the cooling to be around 370-380. I don't agree it's not to compete with the M3/M4 because it already competes with the N55 in it.

Engines and specifically sound I think are a big selling point of a car. Look at the E92 vs the F80. There are a lot of factors but I'd say a majority say, the 8400 RPM V8.
A JB4 won't add 60hp at the wheels to a S55 using straight gas and definitely won't add 60hp at the wheels to the N55.

A bigger intercooler will lower intake temperature but cannot alleviate heat soaking caused by the overworking turbocharger and from the engine accumulating too much heat because of the extra power.

Sound preference is personal and I understand why you prefer the N55 and the S65 V8 is a no brainer. Though most of the people who disliked the S55 acoustically are N55 owners so I am not sure if the preference is fully impartial. 'Beauty is in the eye of the beholder' is a common phenomenon.

I would argue that BMW M actually preferred the S55 on the M2 because it is an engine fully developed by the M division. It makes sense to have standardisation. That is, M model only uses M engine.

On the OG M2, the S55 was given a hold by the marketing department because it might dent the marketability of the M3/M4 at the time. Now there are no more S55 M3s and M4 sales are slow anyway, they are more interested to have the M2C to fill in the void before the next M3/M4 appears thus the hold has been uplifted.
You need to look at some Dynos, you can gain a lot of power from a simple tune. Maybe not exactly 60 but at least 40 and there is for sure a lot of torque gained. In regards to heat soak, these engines experience it in terms of intake temps, not overall engine temp. S55 uses air to water inter cooler which completely eliminates the heat soak but a FMIC would definitely help the N55. I had a 135i awhile back and heavily modded it with the JB4 so I know a lot about the platform.

You seem to be someone who is into straight line speed and drag racing cars which is perfectly fine and understandable why you prefer the new engine but I would say most bought the M2 because of its handling and experience and not to drag race it. I also owned an F80 M3 and even when I owned it, I thought the engine sounded terrible. Before the M2 was even released, people hated the sound the S55 made. I'm sorry but you need to be realistic and agree the majority of people dislike the sound it makes. When they announced the M2C with the S55 I thought it was a terrible idea, well before I even considered buying one.

I still don't agree the reason they didn't put it in wasn't so it wouldn't compete. Like I mentioned, they could have easily detuned a bit more to 380 if that was their concern. They also released the M2C when the M4 still had over a year left of production. If your theory of not competing is true, they won't be putting the S58 into the next gen M2. The 1M also used an engine that wasn't M exclusive. Do you think the engineers wish they had access to the S65 at the time? Does anyone who owns an 1M wish it had the power of the S55?
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      03-27-2019, 07:00 AM   #93
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Quote:
Originally Posted by M2C89 View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Karmic Man View Post
Though most of the people who disliked the S55 acoustically are N55 owners so I am not sure if the preference is fully impartial. 'Beauty is in the eye of the beholder' is a common phenomenon.

I would argue that BMW M actually preferred the S55 on the M2 because it is an engine fully developed by the M division. It makes sense to have standardisation. That is, M model only uses M engine.

On the OG M2, the S55 was given a hold by the marketing department because it might dent the marketability of the M3/M4
I agree. I'm not going to say the S55 sounds better than the N55, but it's hardly the worst sound in the world as most N55 drivers would have you believe. I'd much rather have the extra 40HP/TQ for the change in sound. It's a very subjective subject so hardly a real tangible argument, anyway.

I feel BMW placed the N55 in the OG M2 because the S55 would've competed too closely to it's bigger M3/M4 brothers in their prime, for sales. The M2 was essentially an entry level M-car anyway and they needed to cut costs. Perhaps the M2C is what the M Division wanted the OG M2 to be in the beginning, but couldn't do. Now that the M2C is basically standing alone, the M division doesn't have to restrict it to prevent it from overshadowing it's bigger brothers and impeding sales at the higher price points. Additionally, the fact BMW was forced into this decision by emissions standards ultimately benefited all M2C owners as it probably wouldn't have happened otherwise.
The S55 isn't the worst sounding but it's the worst M sounding car. This isn't from an N55 owner but as a past S55 owner. It's not like now that the M2C came out people are saying it sounds terrible, they've said it from day one on the M3/M4 and continued to say it thought the life of the car.

Again I don't agree it wasn't to compete as they released it alongside the M4 who still has a year left of production. It'll be very interesting to see what they do with the next generation but if you believe they don't want it to compete, it wouldn't make sense for them to put the M3 engine in it.
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      03-27-2019, 07:05 AM   #94
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Advevo View Post
I don t need a e46 M3 in size.

I just hope they make the new M2 shorter wheelbase. And a lot lighter smaller car. The engine power of 370hp is more then enough. The new car needs lightness and more nimble.

If you want a power house buy a new m3 or m5.

M2 should stay a nimble drivers car which gives lots of fun on nice B roads.

If they make it bigger and heavier again with more horsepower to compensate the weight then i am done buying M cars for fun in driving.

My M2C feels like an heavy pig already!
Not sure if the new M2 is longer but the OG is within 1 inch of an E46 M3.

I agree, if they keep making these cars bigger and fatter, I'm out. I'll keep my M2 as long as I can and maybe move to porche. M3 was a dream car growing up but the F80 platform was a huge disappointment. If I wanted an M5 feeling car, I'd get an actual M5. One can only hope the next M2 will be even lighter but I don't think BMW Marketing team would allow that.
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      03-27-2019, 02:44 PM   #95
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Lots of sound comments are largely irrelevant for next generation, I think we can all agree it won't be an N55 in it!

I've owned both the N55 M2, N55 M235i and an S55 M3Comp and M4.

The N55 sounded vastly superior to me. The S55 is no doubt louder and is trying to be more aggressive but it's not as nice a sound. Things like the TT firing sequence have been discussed many times, I'm no way up to speed with that bit it seems logical BMW are still working on enhancing I6 TT sound.
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      03-28-2019, 12:47 PM   #96
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Originally Posted by medphysdave View Post
There's always something better, quicker, faster, lighter on the horizon. Waiting for the "best" will keep you in a perpetual holding pattern.

In my opinion the newer cars are getting better and better on paper, but becoming more clinical. Quicker around a track yes, but arguably less fun in a day to day environment.

Choose your weapon. You may find that the "better" car isn't as fun in the environment where you play the most.

Forgot the point: Jump in when your heart says "you complete me".
^agreed!

I can tell you right now, that I am not a fan of the new BMW Nintendo styled instrument clusters or center consoles. The next gen may be an easy skip for me.
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      03-28-2019, 02:12 PM   #97
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisK View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by medphysdave View Post
There's always something better, quicker, faster, lighter on the horizon. Waiting for the "best" will keep you in a perpetual holding pattern.

In my opinion the newer cars are getting better and better on paper, but becoming more clinical. Quicker around a track yes, but arguably less fun in a day to day environment.

Choose your weapon. You may find that the "better" car isn't as fun in the environment where you play the most.

Forgot the point: Jump in when your heart says "you complete me".
^agreed!

I can tell you right now, that I am not a fan of the new BMW Nintendo styled instrument clusters or center consoles. The next gen may be an easy skip for me.
I've heard this a few times. Waiting for ID8
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      04-06-2019, 05:29 AM   #98
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AMG made in China and...given a L version.
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      04-06-2019, 08:57 AM   #99
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AMG made in China and...given a L version.
For China market only? What engine is it running on?
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      04-06-2019, 10:24 AM   #100
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Karmic Man View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by SeanWRT View Post
AMG made in China and...given a L version.
For China market only? What engine is it running on?
Everything identical including the 300ps M264 2.0T. Only exceptions being the L version, which is a great value to the A class. Yes, China only. Some of the A Class customer in the US must be wishing for a L version I'm sure.
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      04-12-2019, 02:52 AM   #101
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Interesting thread I came across tonight; apparently I was under the assumption that the next generation "G" series vehicles would be lighter than the current "F" generation due to the 'lightweight' CLAR architecture BMW has been touting but apparently the new 330i & M340i is weighing in at substantially higher numbers than its predecessors.

BMW claims this is because the B48/B58 (ClosedBlock) are heavier motors and the vehicles now come with a lot more standard equipment.

So basically BMW is advertising a lower weight chassis but just adding more equipment and a heavier motor (70lbs) to offset this advantage..

This doesn't give a lot of hope for the next generation M2. Being that the N55 M2 weighs in at 3,450lbs, I'm going to wager that the B58 (?) M2 will topple 3,700lbs +..

That's tragic and at 3,700lbs, you could hardly call a vehicle a sports car..

#Oink #Oink


M340i Weight Increase https://g20.bimmerpost.com/forums/sh....php?t=1599263
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      04-12-2019, 06:25 AM   #102
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Originally Posted by Poochie View Post
Interesting thread I came across tonight; apparently I was under the assumption that the next generation "G" series vehicles would be lighter than the current "F" generation due to the 'lightweight' CLAR architecture BMW has been touting but apparently the new 330i & M340i is weighing in at substantially higher numbers than its predecessors.

BMW claims this is because the B48/B58 (ClosedBlock) are heavier motors and the vehicles now come with a lot more standard equipment.

So basically BMW is advertising a lower weight chassis but just adding more equipment and a heavier motor (70lbs) to offset this advantage..

This doesn't give a lot of hope for the next generation M2. Being that the N55 M2 weighs in at 3,450lbs, I'm going to wager that the B58 (?) M2 will topple 3,700lbs +..

That's tragic and at 3,700lbs, you could hardly call a vehicle a sports car..

#Oink #Oink


M340i Weight Increase https://g20.bimmerpost.com/forums/sh....php?t=1599263
No kidding - these cars are getting down right porkie!
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      04-12-2019, 05:51 PM   #103
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I mean it also. I am a big bmw fan and love driving them. But i see no point of spending more money on a bmw drivers car which is bigger and heavier.

So we have to wait and see. But if you look at the G series which are bigger and heavier again it doesn t look good!

Today i had my M2c DCT on the scales.
A heavy 1583 kg and that is with 2 lightweight recaro race seats and 90 procent tank of petrol.

With original seats count an extra 50 kg

1633kg with a full tank of petrol. Holy mother of G.

My friend m2 2016 manual is 65 kg lighter!

Just incredible how heavy the M2c is!

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      04-21-2019, 05:24 AM   #104
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I just watched a movie of the new I4 turbo of the DTM



It s an audi movie but you get the picture.

Weight from the v8 148kg to I4 turbo is 85kg thats massive. Also you can make rear diff smaller. Exhaust smaller and lighter.

It would be awesome if we had an 4 cil turbo with a mild ALS system if we push sport mode!

M2 4 cil turbo
M3 6 cil turbo
M4 6 cil turbo
M5 8 cil turbo

A car that is the size of a 1M Coupe with a 4 cil turbo with a mild ALS system that would be awesome.

Mercedes has A 4 cil over 400hp. If the weight is down 400 plus is not necessary.

A little M2 the size of a 1M Coupe with 370 hp i4 turbo mild als and no more then 1300kg would be really nice.

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      04-21-2019, 05:59 AM   #105
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I've just been reading a review of the 8 series in which the writer bemoans the size: "Why do cars need to be so large?"
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      04-21-2019, 07:21 AM   #106
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I've just been reading a review of the 8 series in which the writer bemoans the size: "Why do cars need to be so large?"
But those rear seats are so useful.....
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      04-21-2019, 12:05 PM   #107
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More weight is killing driving dynamics, the most important point to drive either BMW or Porsche.

Somehow, somewhere BMW has lost it IMHO, and I `ve driven all M3`s, 1M, M2. The M2 is the only BMW I want to drive, because smallest, "less" wheigt of the bunch, most agile and nimble. M3-M4 too big, too heavy, supertanker feel compared to an M2 although less quick, but straight speed is not what driving dynamics is all about IMHO.

I really hope the M2CS won`t be heavier. Wait and see for me, my scope and radar are on the coming 718 GT4, approximately 1350kg is my best guess, and 420 HP more than sufficient for superb driving fun.
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      04-21-2019, 01:18 PM   #108
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Romo View Post
More weight is killing driving dynamics, the most important point to drive either BMW or Porsche.

Somehow, somewhere BMW has lost it IMHO, and I `ve driven all M3`s, 1M, M2. The M2 is the only BMW I want to drive, because smallest, "less" wheigt of the bunch, most agile and nimble. M3-M4 too big, too heavy, supertanker feel compared to an M2 although less quick, but straight speed is not what driving dynamics is all about IMHO.

I really hope the M2CS won`t be heavier. Wait and see for me, my scope and radar are on the coming 718 GT4, approximately 1350kg is my best guess, and 420 HP more than sufficient for superb driving fun.
I doubt that the CS will be heavier than the M2C. How much weight it will shed is a big question. I'm with you on the 718 GT4. It should be amazing but that comes with 2 less seats and a much higher price tag also.
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      04-21-2019, 04:35 PM   #109
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I doubt that the CS will be heavier than the M2C. How much weight it will shed is a big question. I'm with you on the 718 GT4. It should be amazing but that comes with 2 less seats and a much higher price tag also.
How much do you expect the M2 CS base price to be? Around $80K to be worthwhile? It has to be less than GT4 base price which may be around $90K. M2 CS base price has to be $90K or less, cannot be $95 - $100K.
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      04-21-2019, 06:03 PM   #110
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How much do you expect the M2 CS base price to be? Around $80K to be worthwhile? It has to be less than GT4 base price which may be around $90K. M2 CS base price has to be $90K or less, cannot be $95 - $100K.
I think that it is difficult to know unless we find out what options it will have and even then it is just a guess.
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