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      02-19-2019, 06:50 PM   #45
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nomoracin View Post
I don't know much about dynos...like it's so confusing to me how different dynos give higher/lower values, but I think the thing to take away is how much gains there are.

Like, maybe...

Dyno 1 stock could be 400
Dyno 1 CS could be 440
Dyno 1 Stage 1 could be 480

And

Dyno 2 stock could be 380
Dyno 2 CS could be 420
Dyno 2 Stage 1 could be 460

You know what I mean?

...not sure if this is the right way of thinking about it, but that's how I interpret it.

:
There's a lot of info in here, if interested:
Click Me

The part about steady-state vs inertial dynos gives a great feel for why the types may read differently. But...to your question, assuming Dyno 1 and Dyno 2 are identical makes and models, there are still enough variables caused by the operator's setup, environment, tie-down, etc to cause a few % variation. 3% variation doesn't sound like much, but that's ~15hp in our case
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      02-19-2019, 06:53 PM   #46
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BlkSVT View Post
Thanks for posting this! Really helpful info

Just curious, what is 93 octane in FL? Is it 100% gas, or Ethanol-laced E10 like most of the Midwest?
At least 10% ethanol unfortunately...
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      02-19-2019, 06:54 PM   #47
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kelvin1000 View Post
4th gear pulls for all
looks like 5th gear should've been used based on the gear ratios...

MANUAL GEAR RATIOS – IV / V / VI / R
1.18 / 1.00 / 0.85 / 3.73

CLICK HERE
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      02-19-2019, 07:06 PM   #48
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 2PUTT View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kelvin1000 View Post
4th gear pulls for all
looks like 5th gear should've been used based on the gear ratios...

MANUAL GEAR RATIOS – IV / V / VI / R
1.18 / 1.00 / 0.85 / 3.73

CLICK HERE
I agree that it's best to try to get as close to 1:1 gear ratios as possible but when it's 95 degrees and the dyno facility doesn't have adequate cooling, then heat soaking when doing multiple runs can skew the data significantly (which might have actually happened in this case even in 4th gear).
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      02-19-2019, 07:46 PM   #49
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CosmosMpower View Post
How is the CS map only making 425 rwhp when that's what a stock 15 M3/M4 dynos on a dynojet? Was guessing it would be around 450 whp and the stage 1 would be closer to 480 whp.
Every dyno is set up differently. Peak HP/tq on dyno runs doesn't mean much. What's important is how much you gain from a tune or other mods, aka the delta between baseline vs tuned/ modified state (area under the curve). In this case, the gain from the CS map is inline with the advertised power difference between M2C and M3/M4 CS.
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      02-20-2019, 09:12 AM   #50
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cntzl View Post
Every dyno is set up differently. Peak HP/tq on dyno runs doesn't mean much. What's important is how much you gain from a tune or other mods, aka the delta between baseline vs tuned/ modified state (area under the curve). In this case, the gain from the CS map is inline with the advertised power difference between M2C and M3/M4 CS.
True by Dynojet's usually don't have that much variance. The numbers reported look like something from a Mustang dyno.
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      02-21-2019, 08:01 AM   #51
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OP, your numbers are legit.

I know dynojet and I put many enough F series M cars on dynojet. I'm positive the F80/82 stock numbers this forum are seeing are stupidly inflated. Also, sorry guys S55 is not going to make a true 500whp from dynojet with a tune only, any tune, not even close.

One thing that is true though is when you don't have very good octane, you won't be gaining much going more aggressive. It's the Octane that allows for the aggressiveness. Without hardware upgrade (there is hardly any outside of meth/ethanol for S55 tbh, again octane), factory tune yields the most consistent results.

Let me tell you in your case CS is the best choice, not even the CS+. You log you'll know how much more boost STG1 have over the CS up top, only to gain 10+whp in your case. And imagine for yourself how much is there left for the CS+. One step further, you dyno STG2 you'll probably have less power than STG1. These boost are a waste without octane and makes just heat.

If you have the log I can tell you more. I know these stuffs.

Always remember S55 is not as tunable as vendor wants you to believe, no mention of those innocent fanboys. They just buy vendor published numbers and are too smart to believe independent results.
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      02-21-2019, 01:27 PM   #52
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SeanWRT View Post
OP, your numbers are legit.

I know dynojet and I put many enough F series M cars on dynojet. I'm positive the F80/82 stock numbers this forum are seeing are stupidly inflated. Also, sorry guys S55 is not going to make a true 500whp from dynojet with a tune only, any tune, not even close.

One thing that is true though is when you don't have very good octane, you won't be gaining much going more aggressive. It's the Octane that allows for the aggressiveness. Without hardware upgrade (there is hardly any outside of meth/ethanol for S55 tbh, again octane), factory tune yields the most consistent results.

Let me tell you in your case CS is the best choice, not even the CS+. You log you'll know how much more boost STG1 have over the CS up top, only to gain 10+whp in your case. And imagine for yourself how much is there left for the CS+. One step further, you dyno STG2 you'll probably have less power than STG1. These boost are a waste without octane and makes just heat.

If you have the log I can tell you more. I know these stuffs.

Always remember S55 is not as tunable as vendor wants you to believe, no mention of those innocent fanboys. They just buy vendor published numbers and are too smart to believe independent results.
So all the dynos with stock hardware S55's making 530-570 RWHP on E85 tunes are incorrect?
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      02-21-2019, 03:08 PM   #53
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SeanWRT View Post
OP, your numbers are legit.

I know dynojet and I put many enough F series M cars on dynojet. I'm positive the F80/82 stock numbers this forum are seeing are stupidly inflated. Also, sorry guys S55 is not going to make a true 500whp from dynojet with a tune only, any tune, not even close.

One thing that is true though is when you don't have very good octane, you won't be gaining much going more aggressive. It's the Octane that allows for the aggressiveness. Without hardware upgrade (there is hardly any outside of meth/ethanol for S55 tbh, again octane), factory tune yields the most consistent results.

Let me tell you in your case CS is the best choice, not even the CS+. You log you'll know how much more boost STG1 have over the CS up top, only to gain 10+whp in your case. And imagine for yourself how much is there left for the CS+. One step further, you dyno STG2 you'll probably have less power than STG1. These boost are a waste without octane and makes just heat.

If you have the log I can tell you more. I know these stuffs.

Always remember S55 is not as tunable as vendor wants you to believe, no mention of those innocent fanboys. They just buy vendor published numbers and are too smart to believe independent results.
What are your thoughts on whether or not you can use the CS map on a 6MT?
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      02-21-2019, 07:50 PM   #54
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CosmosMpower View Post
So all the dynos with stock hardware S55's making 530-570 RWHP on E85 tunes are incorrect?
Seems I didn't repeat it enough, it's the octane that allows for pushing the turbo. And of course, some dynojets read extremely happy and they happen to get reported often.

Quote:
Originally Posted by nomoracin View Post
What are your thoughts on whether or not you can use the CS map on a 6MT?
Truth be told, MT is not an option with any BMW in my market. I can't tell anything with first hand. Compared to ZCP, CS has some extra 2 pound of boost at middle range and a lot of more timing at top end and slightly different post and pre throttle boost control. I'm not 100% positive if or not these changes have issues with MT, but I tend to believe they do not.
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      02-22-2019, 09:08 PM   #55
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SeanWRT View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by CosmosMpower View Post
So all the dynos with stock hardware S55's making 530-570 RWHP on E85 tunes are incorrect?
Seems I didn't repeat it enough, it's the octane that allows for pushing the turbo. And of course, some dynojets read extremely happy and they happen to get reported often.

Quote:
Originally Posted by nomoracin View Post
What are your thoughts on whether or not you can use the CS map on a 6MT?
Truth be told, MT is not an option with any BMW in my market. I can't tell anything with first hand. Compared to ZCP, CS has some extra 2 pound of boost at middle range and a lot of more timing at top end and slightly different post and pre throttle boost control. I'm not 100% positive if or not these changes have issues with MT, but I tend to believe they do not.
I am trying to schedule another dyno session at a different shop so I can do some comparisons and further testing.

I may also test the CS+ and the GTS maps to complete the stock hardware map comparisons.
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      02-22-2019, 10:21 PM   #56
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kelvin1000 View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by SeanWRT View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by CosmosMpower View Post
So all the dynos with stock hardware S55's making 530-570 RWHP on E85 tunes are incorrect?
Seems I didn't repeat it enough, it's the octane that allows for pushing the turbo. And of course, some dynojets read extremely happy and they happen to get reported often.

Quote:
Originally Posted by nomoracin View Post
What are your thoughts on whether or not you can use the CS map on a 6MT?
Truth be told, MT is not an option with any BMW in my market. I can't tell anything with first hand. Compared to ZCP, CS has some extra 2 pound of boost at middle range and a lot of more timing at top end and slightly different post and pre throttle boost control. I'm not 100% positive if or not these changes have issues with MT, but I tend to believe they do not.
I am trying to schedule another dyno session at a different shop so I can do some comparisons and further testing.

I may also test the CS+ and the GTS maps as well.
Ballin! I know those sessions aren't cheap!
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      02-23-2019, 02:36 PM   #57
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02-23-2019: Stage 0+ CS and Stage 1 Dyno Results:
100% stock hardware with no physical mods
93 Octane
Three medium fans with one directly in front of the intercooler
Closed hood

I tested the car in a different shop that has a better Dyno facility. Still suboptimal testing conditions of 88+ degrees and high humidity but better cooling fans this time.

CS Map (full adaptation):
428.54 WHP
436.05 WTQ

Stage 1 Map (only two pulls of adaptation):
464.63 WHP
498.59 WTQ

Hope this helps some of you!
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Last edited by Kelvin1000; 02-23-2019 at 02:58 PM..
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      02-23-2019, 07:48 PM   #58
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Way better, good on you for getting a second result!
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      02-23-2019, 10:34 PM   #59
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kelvin1000 View Post
02-23-2019: Stage 0+ CS and Stage 1 Dyno Results:
100% stock hardware with no physical mods
93 Octane
Three medium fans with one directly in front of the intercooler
Closed hood

I tested the car in a different shop that has a better Dyno facility. Still suboptimal testing conditions of 88+ degrees and high humidity but better cooling fans this time.

CS Map (full adaptation):
428.54 WHP
436.05 WTQ

Stage 1 Map (only two pulls of adaptation):
464.63 WHP
498.59 WTQ

Hope this helps some of you!
Quick question for a noob, what is stage 1??
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      02-23-2019, 10:45 PM   #60
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RyanBMW View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kelvin1000 View Post
02-23-2019: Stage 0+ CS and Stage 1 Dyno Results:
100% stock hardware with no physical mods
93 Octane
Three medium fans with one directly in front of the intercooler
Closed hood

I tested the car in a different shop that has a better Dyno facility. Still suboptimal testing conditions of 88+ degrees and high humidity but better cooling fans this time.

CS Map (full adaptation):
428.54 WHP
436.05 WTQ

Stage 1 Map (only two pulls of adaptation):
464.63 WHP
498.59 WTQ

Hope this helps some of you!
Quick question for a noob, what is stage 1??
Typically just a software tune map that does not require physical hardware modifications.
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      02-24-2019, 02:07 PM   #61
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Commanderwiggin View Post
Way better, good on you for getting a second result!
Thanks!
This little car is a beast for sure.
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      02-24-2019, 06:39 PM   #62
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Which map are you sticking with?
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      02-24-2019, 09:23 PM   #63
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Inuyasha View Post
Which map are you sticking with?
That's a tough one...

I have been driving with the Stage 1 Map for the last couple of days and I think it may be the best of both worlds. It maintains the smooth power delivery of the stock and the CS tunes but it also provides more usable power for daily driving throughout the entire power band.

While I absolutely love the CS Map, I think that I would probably miss the power from Stage 1.

I will have to do some more testing of both maps before I decide.

Any other opinions out there?
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      02-25-2019, 09:31 AM   #64
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kelvin1000 View Post
That's a tough one...

I have been driving with the Stage 1 Map for the last couple of days and I think it may be the best of both worlds. It maintains the smooth power delivery of the stock and the CS tunes but it also provides more usable power for daily driving throughout the entire power band.

While I absolutely love the CS Map, I think that I would probably miss the power from Stage 1.

I will have to do some more testing of both maps before I decide.

Any other opinions out there?
First, Thank you for the efforts here.

Have you considered the CS+ map. Based on the description of having a little less in the mid range than Stage 1 but near the same top end power levels I can't help but think that will be the map that I likely run in my car.
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      02-25-2019, 09:37 AM   #65
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AudiOn19s View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kelvin1000 View Post
That's a tough one...

I have been driving with the Stage 1 Map for the last couple of days and I think it may be the best of both worlds. It maintains the smooth power delivery of the stock and the CS tunes but it also provides more usable power for daily driving throughout the entire power band.

While I absolutely love the CS Map, I think that I would probably miss the power from Stage 1.

I will have to do some more testing of both maps before I decide.

Any other opinions out there?
First, Thank you for the efforts here.

Have you considered the CS+ map. Based on the description of having a little less in the mid range than Stage 1 but near the same top end power levels I can't help but think that will be the map that I likely run in my car.
I have but I see that this map is still in "Beta" so maybe they are still perfecting it..?
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      03-01-2019, 07:42 PM   #66
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Does anyone know why the CS+ Map is still in beta? I would like to dyno the finalized version.
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