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      11-28-2018, 04:44 PM   #67
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The Alpine is probably, despite the DCT, the best drivers car out there at the moment.

If I didn’t need back seats I’d definitively choose it over the M2C.
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      11-28-2018, 05:49 PM   #68
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Quote:
Originally Posted by goj View Post
My opinion has plenty of basis. Don't be upset.

It's not available in my country.
Irrelevant i.e. not bringing anything pertinent to the discussion. Don't take it personally
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      11-28-2018, 06:06 PM   #69
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Originally Posted by oshalygin View Post
250 hp ugly Miata is what I saw in the vid. Please no. If anything the Porsche > M2C but this fugly beast ? Jeeeeeeeebus!
At 1100kg 250hp are more than enough for the intended use. What kind of enthusiast judges a book by its cover?

Debatable aesthetics aside, all those who snicker at the lack of a 6MT have missed the main point which is that this car's handling abilities and the overall driving enjoyment it brings, combined with the outstanding comfort allowed by the supple chassis settings (both aspects being made possible by the very low weight), have blown away a vast majority of reviewers from all around the world, who quite unanimously agree that it has struck an even better overall balance than the Cayman.

Developing a 6MT on top of the more popular DCT would only have jacked up the development costs and the subsequent final price to a level where the newly reborn brand still can't afford to be, whichever the intrinsic qualities may be (which is visible from all the negative comments dismissing the brand per se without even having watched the reviews). As a new contender Alpine had everything to prove within a tight budget, and they succeeded by sacrificing the 6MT option for the greater good of investing most of the R&D in chassis development and weight reduction. Didn't see any reviewer consider the lack of a 6MT as a discriminating factor.

Good luck finding another sports car that has received this kind of acclaim at this price point.

Last edited by advantage20; 12-02-2018 at 04:16 AM..
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      11-28-2018, 07:12 PM   #70
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Quirky looking car but I'm sure there are many enthusiasts who have a soft spot for it. I'm personally a big fan of the WRX although it's as ugly as sin. I don't think many will cross shop these two cars but it was somewhat entertaining to see the review. Cool car no doubt. If I was looking for something in that segment, I'll probably go with the Alfa 4C.
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      11-29-2018, 12:55 AM   #71
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Alpina seems to be a very nice and playful car, but al least in my country it crazily overpriced, if you are looking for a 2 seats fun car you could buy a Lotus Elise or a Cayman for less money with a manual gearbox, and c'mon they're a Lotus/Porsche not a Renault
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      11-29-2018, 05:23 AM   #72
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Quote:
Originally Posted by _RS4_ View Post
Alpina seems to be a very nice and playful car, but al least in my country it crazily overpriced, if you are looking for a 2 seats fun car you could buy a Lotus Elise or a Cayman for less money with a manual gearbox, and c'mon they're a Lotus/Porsche not a Renault
It's $67,000 in its home market. Renault is not known to Americans under the age of about 50, so nor is its distinct lack of competitiveness even in the European and Asian markets that it concentrates on. Renaults are not particularly reliable or dynamic, and aside from a handful of highly tuned versions of the Megane - no A/C, no radio, one airbag, no rear seats and plexiglass windows - are not bought by anyone other than a couple of hundred hard core enthusiasts.

So you'll have to forgive people on one entire side of the pond for being a little more circumspect about the fundamentals of this one!
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      11-29-2018, 05:28 AM   #73
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Quote:
Originally Posted by advantage20 View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by goj View Post
Alpine is irrelevant to me
No one cares about your baseless opinion = it's completely irrelevant.
The ignorance is astounding sometimes on "enthusiast" forums. Alpine is a legendary marque that has made one hell of a comeback. As an Alpine historian who used to publish about the brand; their new A110 is totally in line with their history.
__________________
don't read this. too late...
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      11-29-2018, 02:22 PM   #74
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And for comparison

Alpine really needs better tyres and stiffer suspensions, not a good package from factory for that price tag...
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      11-29-2018, 03:20 PM   #75
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Quote:
Originally Posted by _RS4_ View Post

And for comparison

Alpine really needs better tyres and stiffer suspensions, not a good package from factory for that price tag...
Had it been designed as a track focused lap time chasing weapon, yes, but it actually was specifically designed with playful light-hearted handling in mind, namely a very low weight allowing for a very direct reaction to inputs and a propension to easily (and safely) go sideways while maintaining a surprisingly high level of comfort, hence why they purposefully installed relatively thin tires and gave it supple suspension settings.

The all-aluminum structure, the small engine, pretty small tires, passive dampers, all help bring the weight down and are sufficient precisely because the total weight is so ridiculously low. A virtuous circle of 'light is right', at the opposite of what the typical car maker is doing (high weight requiring a larger and heavier engine, which in turn requires heavier tires and brakes, heavier reinforcements, etc.).

A more hardcore version however is in the works, which should get a horsepower bump, grippier tires and a stiffer chassis, allowing for improved lap times and all in all a different type of fun.

Last edited by advantage20; 11-30-2018 at 07:58 AM..
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      11-29-2018, 03:33 PM   #76
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I agree, I really hope that in the future we will have a more track oriented version, possibly with a reasonable price...
I appreciate that someone is still focused on driving pleasure in this electric and self driving world, but please leave us the manual transmission!
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      11-29-2018, 04:11 PM   #77
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Quote:
Originally Posted by _RS4_ View Post
I agree, I really hope that in the future we will have a more track oriented version, possibly with a reasonable price...
I appreciate that someone is still focused on driving pleasure in this electric and self driving world, but please leave us the manual transmission!
As explained, the R&D budget was too tight to allow developing the DCT and the manual, so they had to ditch the manual in order to focus all efforts on weight reduction and chassis calibration. Once the brand's image is reestablished (shouldn't be too hard after such a remarkable comeback) and they can start making scale economies or simply afford charging a higher price, they might be able to offer a manual as well, but that likely wouldn't happen until the next generation and who knows if manuals will survive until then or even combustion engines for that matter
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      11-29-2018, 06:05 PM   #78
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SUB-ZERO View Post
Quirky looking car but I'm sure there are many enthusiasts who have a soft spot for it. I'm personally a big fan of the WRX although it's as ugly as sin. I don't think many will cross shop these two cars but it was somewhat entertaining to see the review. Cool car no doubt. If I was looking for something in that segment, I'll probably go with the Alfa 4C.
Wrx, understeer for days, followed by snap-oversteer. Not going to lie, I have a soft spot for it, being a previous owner, but it has a lot of weaknesses and the engine in front of the axle is one.
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      11-30-2018, 06:16 AM   #79
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Quote:
Originally Posted by advantage20 View Post
Had it been designed as a track focused lap time chasing weapon, yes, but it actually was specifically designed with playful light-hearted handling in mind, namely a very low weight allowing for a very direct reaction to inputs and a propension to easily (and safely) go sideways while maintaining a surprisingly high level of comfort, hence why they purposefully installed relatively thin tires and gave it supple suspension settings.

The all-aluminum structure, the small engine, pretty small tires, passive dampers, all help bring the weight down and are sufficient precisely because the total weight is so ridiculously low. A virtuous circle of 'light is right', at the opposite of what the typical car maker is doing (high weight requiring a larger and heavier engine, which in turn requires heavier tires and brakes, heavier reinforcemens, etc.).

A more hardcore version however is in the works, which should get a horsepower bump, grippier tires and a stiffer chassis, allowing for improved lap times and all in all a different type of fun.
This exactly! +1

Fun factor/driving pleasure first, laptimes second....

Cheers
Robin
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      11-30-2018, 07:16 AM   #80
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Robin_NL View Post
This exactly! +1

Fun factor/driving pleasure first, laptimes second....
Fightin' talk around these here parts!

It really does read as if the majority of owners here couldn't give a full diaper about driving enjoyment. They chase G-force, 0-60, lap times, electronic equipment, YouTube videos, hi-res pictures, price points, leasing.

This absolutely wasn't the case 20 years ago, when usenet and mailing list members were predominantly motoring enthusiasts, rather than product evaluators.
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      11-30-2018, 07:57 AM   #81
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There's only one way for this to be settled...what's the Alpine's Nurburgring time? I can't find that answer. All I see for the Alpine are BTG sort-of vids. Anyone have this info?
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      11-30-2018, 08:03 AM   #82
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Quote:
Originally Posted by E46M54325Ci View Post
There's only one way for this to be settled...what's the Alpine's Nurburgring time? I can't find that answer. All I see for the Alpine are BTG sort-of vids. Anyone have this info?
I don't have info yet but I guess it's not as fast as M2/M2C. Alfa 4C did it in 8:05

If you want fast(er) cars than M2C, albeit sometimes secretly 'factory-tuned':

Civic Type R (I will get a ban for this!)
Golf GTI Clubsport (no rear seats)
TT RS (just 2s faster than M2C)

Those three are also way and waymore fun to drive as a daily, trust me!

Cheers
Robin
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      11-30-2018, 12:36 PM   #83
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Robin_NL View Post
I don't have info yet but I guess it's not as fast as M2/M2C. Alfa 4C did it in 8:05

If you want fast(er) cars than M2C, albeit sometimes secretly 'factory-tuned':

Civic Type R (I will get a ban for this!)
Golf GTI Clubsport (no rear seats)
TT RS (just 2s faster than M2C)

Those three are also way and waymore fun to drive as a daily, trust me!

Cheers
Robin
My guess as well. But if a small-power car can beat a big-power car on a big-power track (with technical infusions, of course), all the more props to it...why the Civic R is so impressive. Given the new Z4/Supra is running 7:50s, I'm doubting the Alpine would be quicker...but weight matters. Will be fun to see how it does!
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      11-30-2018, 12:55 PM   #84
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Quote:
Originally Posted by advantage20 View Post
As explained, the R&D budget was too tight to allow developing the DCT and the manual, so they had to ditch the manual in order to focus all efforts on weight reduction and chassis calibration. Once the brand's image is reestablished (shouldn't be too hard after such a remarkable comeback) and they can start making scale economies or simply afford charging a higher price, they might be able to offer a manual as well, but that likely wouldn't happen until the next generation and who knows if manuals will survive until then or even combustion engines for that matter
No money available to develop a manual...but insane money available for Mr Ghosn salary
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      11-30-2018, 01:35 PM   #85
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Quote:
Originally Posted by E46M54325Ci View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Robin_NL View Post
I don't have info yet but I guess it's not as fast as M2/M2C. Alfa 4C did it in 8:05

If you want fast(er) cars than M2C, albeit sometimes secretly 'factory-tuned':

Civic Type R (I will get a ban for this!)
Golf GTI Clubsport (no rear seats)
TT RS (just 2s faster than M2C)

Those three are also way and waymore fun to drive as a daily, trust me!

Cheers
Robin
My guess as well. But if a small-power car can beat a big-power car on a big-power track (with technical infusions, of course), all the more props to it...why the Civic R is so impressive. Given the new Z4/Supra is running 7:50s, I'm doubting the Alpine would be quicker...but weight matters. Will be fun to see how it does!
The Civic Type R only did 8:05 ( sport auto carmag) @ Nordschleife:-)

Cheers
Robin
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      11-30-2018, 03:02 PM   #86
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Robin_NL View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by E46M54325Ci View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Robin_NL View Post
I don't have info yet but I guess it's not as fast as M2/M2C. Alfa 4C did it in 8:05

If you want fast(er) cars than M2C, albeit sometimes secretly 'factory-tuned':

Civic Type R (I will get a ban for this!)
Golf GTI Clubsport (no rear seats)
TT RS (just 2s faster than M2C)

Those three are also way and waymore fun to drive as a daily, trust me!

Cheers
Robin
My guess as well. But if a small-power car can beat a big-power car on a big-power track (with technical infusions, of course), all the more props to it...why the Civic R is so impressive. Given the new Z4/Supra is running 7:50s, I'm doubting the Alpine would be quicker...but weight matters. Will be fun to see how it does!
The Civic Type R only did 8:05 ( sport auto carmag) @ Nordschleife:-)

Cheers
Robin
Right, more the general idea of just how quick it is for what it is.
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      12-01-2018, 10:20 AM   #87
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Funnily enough, i went to see an A110 a couple of months back (i already had my M2C and wasn't entertaining getting one - it was with a friend who was after one) and i must say i was impressed with the overall package of the Alpine. I got took out for a passenger ride in it after my mates test drive and wow, you can't half feel how light it is vs the M2C. Very sweet chassis set up. Nice exhaust note for a four banger. I have no regrets and much prefer the M2C which wins for me in many more areas, but if i could have one in addition, it certainly would be something to consider.






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      12-02-2018, 12:09 AM   #88
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Extraordinary levels of ignorance from car enthusiasts about the original Alpine A110...
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