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      10-29-2018, 11:23 AM   #309
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Uncledanny6 View Post
Does EVERYONE really like the Mirrors, or is there merely an envy/fury that the OG M2 didn't come with them ? To me they look Lexus/Acura/Batman Japanese . JMO
I think the mirrors were a thorny issue for a couple of reasons...first, the 1M got them (I think they were directly from the E92 M3), and are one of the visual styling cues of the more recent M cars.

Secondly, there were early marketing materials that referenced what the M2 was going to "get" and the M mirror were referenced. So the fact that they came with the "regular" 2er mirrors is another example of how BMW's literature doesn't always reflect reality.

Personally, I like the style of the M mirrors, but it would never factor into a purchasing decision (we have an OG M2 LCI in the stable).
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      10-29-2018, 01:18 PM   #310
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gatte View Post
Try harder. I have 2 deposits at #6 and #14 at 2 out of state dealerships. Both should honor MSRP. It's not hard to get these cars at MSRP and without prior history if you really tried.

And yes, the dealerships did get that many allocations on the previous GT4 so they should get at least as many this time since the production numbers will be higher.



The next GT4 will not get the 4L from the GT3. It will get the old 3.8L with X51 and an upgraded intake. Still very very good.
Hello

So today tried to get on a possible waiting list for the gt4, "no chance" and "all sold out", even having already a P car, what a nightmare experience...

Life goes on, lets see what the M2cs looks like... maybe will try a old gt4 but for the price i wish i had that new car delivery experience etc etc

Thanks for all your input and help.
Best regards
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      10-29-2018, 01:44 PM   #311
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dmboone25 View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Uncledanny6 View Post
Does EVERYONE really like the Mirrors, or is there merely an envy/fury that the OG M2 didn't come with them ? To me they look Lexus/Acura/Batman Japanese . JMO
I think the mirrors were a thorny issue for a couple of reasons...first, the 1M got them (I think they were directly from the E92 M3), and are one of the visual styling cues of the more recent M cars.

Secondly, there were early marketing materials that referenced what the M2 was going to "get" and the M mirror were referenced. So the fact that they came with the "regular" 2er mirrors is another example of how BMW's literature doesn't always reflect reality.

Personally, I like the style of the M mirrors, but it would never factor into a purchasing decision (we have an OG M2 LCI in the stable).
Agreed about that synopsis.
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      10-29-2018, 02:19 PM   #312
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Originally Posted by kepler View Post

Absolute hard no on the two highlighted in blue.
It's too bad a detuned version of the new 4.0L F6 isn't going to be considered. The protection of the 911 is always at the forefront of Porsche's mind and strategy, but can you imagine how good that car would be?

Maybe their best product ever...
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      10-29-2018, 02:21 PM   #313
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gatte View Post
The 991.1 GT3 was an evolution of the old 3.8L. It got better internals, an improved intake, lubrication system etc. to handle the extra RPM.The GT4 does not need the fancy internals and hence will not have them.

I exchanged a few messages with a local race team owner who drives the old GT4 Clubsport and has seen the new GT4 clubsport. He was very happy with what Porsche have done with it. The new car should continue to produce more power right till the redline where the older car stopped a few hundred RPM short of the redline. The improved intake should be similar to the new GT3 as well.

The difference in the engine internals between the GT3 and GT4 is purely due to necessity. The GT4 does not need the fancy internals because it does not need to rev as much. It's a well known fact that there are not many cars that can take as much abuse on the track as the ones from Weissach.

I fully expect the new car to knock 10 seconds off the time set by the old GT4 (7:40) on the Nurburgring which brings it very close to the M4 GTS's time. Now add the fact that it does this with a manual transmission and no turbos. There's something very pure and special about it.
I don't get your premise that the GT4 doesn't need fancy internals. It's supposed to be a track ready car. Porsche simply cheaped out if they reuse the 991 3.8 instead of detuning the 4.0.
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      10-30-2018, 03:30 PM   #314
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CosmosMpower View Post
I don't get your premise that the GT4 doesn't need fancy internals. It's supposed to be a track ready car. Porsche simply cheaped out if they reuse the 991 3.8 instead of detuning the 4.0.
How would you propose they de-tune the 4.0 with all the same internals and the dry sump ??

If it is just a tune, there will be tuners who will quickly find a way to get it back to GT3 power levels. Even if Porsche limited the redline on the 4.0L GT3 engine to about 8000 RPM, it would still be making a lot more power than 420 HP. If they limited the intake, again it would be a very easy aftermarket fix. Even with just the rumored 420 HP to 430 HP, the car should be able to keep up with cars that make significantly more power and cost quite a bit more as well. It should also be quite a bit faster than the 981 GT4 so I am not sure why you want the 4.0L if the 3.8L is able to get you what you need. If it is just so you can feel good knowing that the engine is the same as in the GT3, that's definitely not a valid reason.

Now, think about it from an economical/marketing point of view. Why would Porsche spend a lot more money on fancy internals, dry sump and artificially limit it's performance. That extra cost would indirectly or directly transfer over to the customer. Instead of the car being priced under 100K $, it would now be close to 115K-120K $. At that price point, a new/young customer who wants to sample the best that the GT division has to offer will look elsewhere (Me included). Basically, what porsche is saying is that if you want the 4.0L GT3 motor, well.... Go get a GT3.

Now from a GT4 racing point of view, engine overhauls on a GT3 car and cost to run it are significantly higher than the GT4 series. Porsche wants to keep these costs lower so more and more race teams opt for Porsche over it's competitors. Based on what I've read, the current GT4 Clubsport is significantly more reliable and consistent on track days than the competing ferraris and mclarens. Porsche has always been known for this. People rarely complain about heating issues and the resulting performance dip after a few laps on the circuit. It is a very capable track day car.

The fact that it does not get the 4.0L engine from the GT3 does not mean that it is not a car that you can take to the track. As a matter of fact, porsche GT car owners track their car more than anybody else.

Quote:
Originally Posted by dmboone25 View Post
It's too bad a detuned version of the new 4.0L F6 isn't going to be considered. The protection of the 911 is always at the forefront of Porsche's mind and strategy, but can you imagine how good that car would be?

Maybe their best product ever...
Now based on someone who was invited to Weissach to try the new GT4, there is another prototype that does have a 4.0L but that car apparently is not going to be made. For all intents and purposes that car is supposed to just be a figment of imagination.
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      10-30-2018, 04:07 PM   #315
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gatte View Post
How would you propose they de-tune the 4.0 with all the same internals and the dry sump ??

If it is just a tune, there will be tuners who will quickly find a way to get it back to GT3 power levels. Even if Porsche limited the redline on the 4.0L GT3 engine to about 8000 RPM, it would still be making a lot more power than 420 HP. If they limited the intake, again it would be a very easy aftermarket fix. Even with just the rumored 420 HP to 430 HP, the car should be able to keep up with cars that make significantly more power and cost quite a bit more as well. It should also be quite a bit faster than the 981 GT4 so I am not sure why you want the 4.0L if the 3.8L is able to get you what you need. If it is just so you can feel good knowing that the engine is the same as in the GT3, that's definitely not a valid reason.

Now, think about it from an economical/marketing point of view. Why would Porsche spend a lot more money on fancy internals, dry sump and artificially limit it's performance. That extra cost would indirectly or directly transfer over to the customer. Instead of the car being priced under 100K $, it would now be close to 115K-120K $. At that price point, a new/young customer who wants to sample the best that the GT division has to offer will look elsewhere (Me included). Basically, what porsche is saying is that if you want the 4.0L GT3 motor, well.... Go get a GT3.

Now from a GT4 racing point of view, engine overhauls on a GT3 car and cost to run it are significantly higher than the GT4 series. Porsche wants to keep these costs lower so more and more race teams opt for Porsche over it's competitors. Based on what I've read, the current GT4 Clubsport is significantly more reliable and consistent on track days than the competing ferraris and mclarens. Porsche has always been known for this. People rarely complain about heating issues and the resulting performance dip after a few laps on the circuit. It is a very capable track day car.

The fact that it does not get the 4.0L engine from the GT3 does not mean that it is not a car that you can take to the track. As a matter of fact, porsche GT car owners track their car more than anybody else.


Now based on someone who was invited to Weissach to try the new GT4, there is another prototype that does have a 4.0L but that car apparently is not going to be made. For all intents and purposes that car is supposed to just be a figment of imagination.

Well it's the last NA one right? So it either gets a the great NA engine they have this time, or never. So probably never.
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      10-31-2018, 02:16 PM   #316
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^Beauty is in the eye of the beholder
I do like the Cayman more, the 911 (wat ever series of them) have grown too big IMHO
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      10-31-2018, 02:20 PM   #317
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Artemis View Post
Is Porsche gonna keep the long gearing ratios ?

Sounds can deceive, but doesn't that (fast) *chuck* sound during shifting rather suggest PDK than manual transmission for trained ears (Monza circuit - October 2018 testing) ? (fixed side windows = Clubsport).

This is the Club version, not the street version. Hence the PDK, I do hope the street version can be both, MT and PDK.

Look how the rear wing is fixed

The sound is far too aggressive for street standards I`m afraid
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      11-05-2018, 05:42 AM   #318
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I have notice photos of the M2C testing new exhaust. I'm sure I have seen similar muffler, but cannot remember where exactly.

Name:  bmw-m2-coupe-f87-2018-c226625102018170902_6.jpg
Views: 1496
Size:  416.1 KB

Name:  bmw-m2-coupe-f87-2018-c226625102018170902_5.jpg
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From here:
https://www.autogespot.com/bmw-m2-f8...ion/2018/10/25
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      11-05-2018, 09:49 AM   #319
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Quote:
Originally Posted by macphin View Post
.....I'm sure I have seen similar muffler, but cannot remember where exactly......
New G80 M3

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      11-05-2018, 11:29 AM   #320
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Quote:
Originally Posted by macphin View Post
I have notice photos of the M2C testing new exhaust. I'm sure I have seen similar muffler, but cannot remember where exactly.

Attachment 1930683

Attachment 1930684

From here:
https://www.autogespot.com/bmw-m2-f8...ion/2018/10/25
Yes, this muffler is almost identical to the one on G80 M3. Couple other interesting details on the car I noticed:

- No aero (spoiler, diffuser, front splitter etc)
- No CF roof (it has a sunroof)
- No M3/M4 seats (it has OG M2 seats)
- No CCB (it has 2NH brakes but in blue)
- No 763M wheels (437Ms instead)



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      11-05-2018, 11:57 AM   #321
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cntzl View Post
Yes, this muffler is almost identical to the one on G80 M3. Couple other interesting details on the car I noticed:

- No aero (spoiler, diffuser, front splitter etc)
- No CF roof (it has a sunroof)
- No M3/M4 seats (it has OG M2 seats)
- No CCB (it has 2NH brakes but in blue)
- No 763M wheels (437Ms instead)
Testing the S58 in M2C??
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      11-05-2018, 12:25 PM   #322
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Originally Posted by F87_LCI View Post
Testing the S58 in M2C??
Possibly
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      11-05-2018, 12:33 PM   #323
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The fact that it's being tested on a new muffler leads to me believe that it might very well be a S58 motor..

Now if only they could confirm it's going to have manual option (doubtful) and it's my new favorite BMW
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      11-05-2018, 03:26 PM   #324
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Poochie View Post
The fact that it's being tested on a new muffler leads to me believe that it might very well be a S58 motor..

Now if only they could confirm it's going to have manual option (doubtful) and it's my new favorite BMW
Are you saying that the new S58 engine is going to be in the M2 CS? That would be awesome if true, but not sure how accurate that is since the M3/M4 CS both currently use the S55.
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      11-05-2018, 03:33 PM   #325
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RPM33 View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Poochie View Post
The fact that it's being tested on a new muffler leads to me believe that it might very well be a S58 motor..

Now if only they could confirm it's going to have manual option (doubtful) and it's my new favorite BMW
Are you saying that the new S58 engine is going to be in the M2 CS? That would be awesome if true, but not sure how accurate that is since the M3/M4 CS both currently use the S55.
It was just an assumption based on fact they are using a different exhaust from the current S55 M2C but same one as the upcoming G82 M4, which will be fixed with a new S58 motor..

Based on that, I say it's possibly a detune version of the S58 in the M2 CS.

But don't quote me..
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      11-05-2018, 03:34 PM   #326
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Quote:
Originally Posted by macphin View Post
I have notice photos of the M2C testing new exhaust. I'm sure I have seen similar muffler, but cannot remember where exactly.

Attachment 1930683

Attachment 1930684

From here:
https://www.autogespot.com/bmw-m2-f8...ion/2018/10/25
I TOLD YOU GUYS TO WAIT FOR THE S58 ENGINE FURTHER PROGRESS! Let's go baby!


https://f87.bimmerpost.com/forums/sh...37&postcount=4

https://f87.bimmerpost.com/forums/sh...&postcount=395

Last edited by akkando; 11-05-2018 at 03:49 PM..
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      11-05-2018, 03:35 PM   #327
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It's better to use an M2 as mule than to use an actual G80 which hasn't been developed yet and any development needs to be covered up completely.

That car easily passes as a regular M2, but may be testing M3 equipment
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      11-05-2018, 03:49 PM   #328
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Quote:
Originally Posted by akkando View Post

I TOLD YOU GUYS TO WAIT FOR THE S58 ENGINE FURTHER PROGRESS!





So here we go again; the M2C vs M2 CS pissing match begins..

#LowEndTorque
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      11-05-2018, 04:04 PM   #329
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I still don't think we'll see S58 being available on the F87 chassis but even if it does show up it'll be in a rare, limited edition model. Either way it's goods news for many of us. I'll enjoy my M2C for next 3 years or so and then upgrade to S58 as long as it comes with a *manual*
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      11-05-2018, 04:40 PM   #330
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cntzl View Post
I still don't think we'll see S58 being available on the F87 chassis but even if it does show up it'll be in a rare, limited edition model. Either way it's goods news for many of us. I'll enjoy my M2C for next 3 years or so and then upgrade to S58 as long as it comes with a *manual*
Since the [COLOR="Blue"]S58[/COLOR] is built on the [COLOR="Green"]B58[/COLOR] platform and the [COLOR="Green"]B58[/COLOR] is already stuffed into the 2 series chassis(240i), I don't think it's too far-fetched that would be able fit the [COLOR="Blue"]S58[/COLOR] in the new M2 CS' body..

Of course this is just conjecture until the official reveal of the motor..
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