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      10-22-2018, 03:21 PM   #243
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Originally Posted by Zombie_Head View Post
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Originally Posted by Brake_Late View Post
Not in every instance.
Take the 1995 M3 LTW for example.
Well if you want to go further back, AC was an option in 1986 for my Porsche 944 turbo ^^

Lets stick with modern cars Specifically a "base" 911.
That's wayyyyy back. AC and or Radio weren't even an option for the LTW in US Market to my understanding.
Or at least all of the ones I've handled and seen didn't have them installed.

Grandfather to the M2C and others of today's modern roads.

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      10-22-2018, 03:24 PM   #244
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Brake_Late View Post
That's wayyyyy back. AC and or Radio weren't even an option for the LTW.
Great grandfather to the M2.
Yes, the radio was a DM 125 option on my car ^^ yes i have that car still with the original spec list and options ^^. AC was optional DM1,270.ish, leather was ironically standard...weird 80s.
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      10-22-2018, 03:27 PM   #245
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Originally Posted by eDrive View Post
Not before the new M3/4.
I thought these come out before the CS? CS slated for mid 2020? Won't G8x be out prior to that?
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      10-22-2018, 03:31 PM   #246
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zombie_Head View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Brake_Late View Post
That's wayyyyy back. AC and or Radio weren't even an option for the LTW.
Great grandfather to the M2.
Yes, the radio was a DM 125 option on my car ^^ yes i have that car still with the original spec list and options ^^. AC was optional DM1,270.ish, leather was ironically standard...weird 80s.
LUCKY. AC isn't as common in cars in Germany as it is here to my understanding.
In SoCal it's almost a requirement as were technically in a desert.

Pics please -
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      10-22-2018, 03:39 PM   #247
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zombie_Head View Post
Yes, the radio was a DM 125 option on my car ^^ yes i have that car still with the original spec list and options ^^. AC was optional DM1,270.ish, leather was ironically standard...weird 80s.
Must have been "rich Corinthian leather" (go to 0m16s)

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      10-22-2018, 03:54 PM   #248
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Quote:
Originally Posted by F87_LCI View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by eDrive View Post
Not before the new M3/4.
I thought these come out before the CS? CS slated for mid 2020? Won't G8x be out prior to that?


You have a point I wasn't clear the car was that far out.

So why not unless they have a stockpile of S55's to get rid of.
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      10-22-2018, 04:28 PM   #249
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eDrive View Post


You have a point I wasn't clear the car was that far out.

So why not unless they have a stockpile of S55's to get rid of.
My guess is that it's because the F80/82 had the S55 throughout the life cycle, and that's the typical approach.

Changing engines midstream for a specific generation M car is not without precedent (F87 M2, obviously and one of the earlier M3s, can't remember which), but it is not the typical BMW approach. I am not sure if this is the case, but I am unaware of any single generation M car getting three different engines over the span of the life cycle (which would have to be the case with the F87, were it to get the S58 in CS/CSL guise). That would be pretty remarkable.

I also think, based on pecking order, that you won't see the M3/4 come after the M2, but we shall see.
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      10-22-2018, 04:48 PM   #250
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Take my money BMW, now
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      10-22-2018, 04:58 PM   #251
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eDrive View Post
Supply and demand dude.

Nice story though.

Exactly, well done. Now that you've made it this far, let's see how bright you are.

I bet you know your BMW historical production numbers, so you've got the supply side of the equation down. But that's the easy part - a chimp with a computer can look that up with a 5 second Google search.

Now tell us what is creating the demand side for the last 20 years. I'm not talking about desire - anyone can "want" a 1M or a 993 Turbo - I'm talking about what's required to convert that desire to a purchase, what's required to turn a car that retailed for $99,000 in 1996 into a $185,000 "investment" car today.

It's not a trick question, but take some time, mull it over, then come back and impress us.
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      10-22-2018, 05:16 PM   #252
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Quote:
Originally Posted by F87_LCI View Post
I thought these come out before the CS? CS slated for mid 2020? Won't G8x be out prior to that?
First X3M and X4M get the S58, as MY2020 models. Then G80 M3 and G82 M4 as MY2021. M3 and M4 could be staggered release, due to the next M4 beginning further differentiated from M3. G83(vert) after that. Only then will another model get the S58, most likely next gen M2(G87).
Quote:
Originally Posted by eDrive View Post


You have a point I wasn't clear the car was that far out.

So why not unless they have a stockpile of S55's to get rid of.
S55 will be in production at minimum until 10/2020. When F83 ends production. M2 CS will need to start production early 2020, to meet a mid year release.
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      10-22-2018, 05:24 PM   #253
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Looks like I need to start saving up, this could be the next E46 M3 CSL.
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      10-22-2018, 05:48 PM   #254
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zombie_Head View Post
FYI not all Hydraulic Steering is good, the E46 M3 CSL is an example, there is not much feel in the wheel, granted enough but not as good as you expect it to be.

Again, "not all" is the key here, some are fantastic and some are just dead.
The hydraulic rack in the E9x M3 and 1M are not considered great either.
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      10-22-2018, 06:17 PM   #255
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Brake_Late View Post
LUCKY. AC isn't as common in cars in Germany as it is here to my understanding.
In SoCal it's almost a requirement as were technically in a desert.

Pics please -
Pics...none with me at the moment, since i live now in Germany i stored that car in a warehouse in Dubai (used to live there).
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      10-22-2018, 06:29 PM   #256
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zombie_Head View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Brake_Late View Post
LUCKY. AC isn't as common in cars in Germany as it is here to my understanding.
In SoCal it's almost a requirement as were technically in a desert.

Pics please -
Pics...none with me at the moment, since i live now in Germany i stored that car in a warehouse in Dubai (used to live there).
Nice and dry. Good one
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      10-22-2018, 06:40 PM   #257
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dmboone25 View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by eDrive View Post


You have a point I wasn't clear the car was that far out.

So why not unless they have a stockpile of S55's to get rid of.
My guess is that it's because the F80/82 had the S55 throughout the life cycle, and that's the typical approach.

Changing engines midstream for a specific generation M car is not without precedent (F87 M2, obviously and one of the earlier M3s, can't remember which), but it is not the typical BMW approach. I am not sure if this is the case, but I am unaware of any single generation M car getting three different engines over the span of the life cycle (which would have to be the case with the F87, were it to get the S58 in CS/CSL guise). That would be pretty remarkable.

I also think, based on pecking order, that you won't see the M3/4 come after the M2, but we shall see.
Yeah and considering all the cost restraints with all the beginnings of these new BMW electric cars I think you're spot on.
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      10-22-2018, 07:06 PM   #258
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MParallel View Post
Looks like I need to start saving up, this could be the next E46 M3 CSL.
It's going to be a CS car.
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      10-22-2018, 07:12 PM   #259
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Can't wait to see the outcome of this one.
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      10-22-2018, 07:59 PM   #260
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All CF pieces (roof, fenders, trunk lid, hood) ==> -50lbs (if they decide to add fenders and trunk lid too)
CCBs ==> -25lbs over blue brakes or -60lbs over silver BBK on M2C
763M wheels ==> -8lbs over 437Ms or -17lbs over 788Ms on M2C
Lithium battery ==> -30lbs (or even more)

So they can save close to 160lbs over M2C without even touching the interior. If they add manual AC, manual seats, lightweight door trim etc total weight savings can be near 200lbs.
Just nitpicking here:

The CCB offer ~18lb of weight reduction over the standard iron brakes.

On the F10 M5, the CCB offered a ~42lb reduction over the iron rotors of the same size with the same callipers in front and larger callipers in the rear, I doubt the difference is any greater than this between the M2C BBK and CCB.
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      10-22-2018, 08:02 PM   #261
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dmboone25 View Post
My guess is that it's because the F80/82 had the S55 throughout the life cycle, and that's the typical approach.

Changing engines midstream for a specific generation M car is not without precedent (F87 M2, obviously and one of the earlier M3s, can't remember which), but it is not the typical BMW approach. I am not sure if this is the case, but I am unaware of any single generation M car getting three different engines over the span of the life cycle (which would have to be the case with the F87, were it to get the S58 in CS/CSL guise). That would be pretty remarkable.

I also think, based on pecking order, that you won't see the M3/4 come after the M2, but we shall see.
The E30 went from a 2.3L to 2.5L I-4 mid-cycle
The E36 went from a 3.0L to 3.2L I-6 mid-cycle
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      10-22-2018, 08:18 PM   #262
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CanAutM3 View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by cntzl View Post
All CF pieces (roof, fenders, trunk lid, hood) ==> -50lbs (if they decide to add fenders and trunk lid too)
CCBs ==> -25lbs over blue brakes or -60lbs over silver BBK on M2C
763M wheels ==> -8lbs over 437Ms or -17lbs over 788Ms on M2C
Lithium battery ==> -30lbs (or even more)

So they can save close to 160lbs over M2C without even touching the interior. If they add manual AC, manual seats, lightweight door trim etc total weight savings can be near 200lbs.
Just nitpicking here:

The CCB offer ~18lb of weight reduction over the standard iron brakes.

On the F10 M5, the CCB offered a ~42lb reduction over the iron rotors of the same size with the same callipers in front and larger callipers in the rear, I doubt the difference is any greater than this between the M2C BBK and CCB.
I came up with these numbers based on BMW ETK (by comparing the weight of each part) so not claiming they are 100% accurate.
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      10-22-2018, 08:36 PM   #263
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CanAutM3 View Post
The E30 went from a 2.3L to 2.5L I-4 mid-cycle
The E36 went from a 3.0L to 3.2L I-6 mid-cycle
Shouldn't you be driving your CS?

I thought it was the E30 or E36, didn't realize it was both.
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      10-22-2018, 08:44 PM   #264
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Quote:
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Not in every instance.
Take the 1995 M3 LTW for example.
Go back to sleep, we're talking about Porsches
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