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M2 Technical Topics > Suspension | Brakes | Chassis > 2NH M Sport Brakes & M Performance Parts Brakes: bigger and 16 kg / 35 lbs extra

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      05-21-2018, 09:32 AM   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by beppeM3+123d View Post
The problem is another:
they ask for money for "new" fake brakes that increase weight of 15 kg, a lot for a very similar performance and then they ask for 10000/15000 usd of carbon parts to reduce 15 kg weight.

Anyone can understand that is absolutely crazy.
If you have a budget of 10000 usd you buy ccb and reduce weight of 13,5 where part of this are not suspended parts. You have the best brake ever and you can also make track days.

That's it. all the carbon parts are no sense waste of money and ccb are not available Oem.
Crazy management
You will go broke with ccb if you do frequent track days.

A lot of Porsche GT3 guys with PCCB look for iron rotors replacement when their ceramic rotors are done.

A bigger brake system will always add weight. That's just physics. Ceramic rotors may have less weight but they also have their drawbacks. Replacement cost is a major one.
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      05-21-2018, 09:34 AM   #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MR RIZK View Post
From the threads I read a while ago they were replacing due to cost. The CCB's didn't get the life expectancies drivers were hoping for.
I recall a few years ago a thread reporting some drama about CCB's on the M4 (not properly fitting, getting damaged: replacing those rotors hurts your wallet if not replaced under warranty).
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      05-21-2018, 09:36 AM   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Karmic Man View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by beppeM3+123d View Post
The problem is another:
they ask for money for "new" fake brakes that increase weight of 15 kg, a lot for a very similar performance and then they ask for 10000/15000 usd of carbon parts to reduce 15 kg weight.

Anyone can understand that is absolutely crazy.
If you have a budget of 10000 usd you buy ccb and reduce weight of 13,5 where part of this are not suspended parts. You have the best brake ever and you can also make track days.

That's it. all the carbon parts are no sense waste of money and ccb are not available Oem.
Crazy management
You will go broke with ccb if you do frequent track days.

A lot of Porsche GT3 guys with PCCB look for iron rotor replacement when their ceramic rotors are done.

A bigger brake system will always add weight. That's just physics. Ceramic rotors may have less weight but they also have their drawbacks. Replacement cost is a major one.
This is no sense. Is exactly opposite, believe me I know well in the Monza circuit the difference between ccb and iron brake!

Nobody will do track days all the days. But just one is enough with std brake to waste it. 3 turns and you have to stop, with "new fake brake" 3,5 /4 turns no more.

My topic is the sense of install this new brake or not and my opinion is absolutely NOT!
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      05-21-2018, 09:38 AM   #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Artemis View Post
I recall a few years ago a thread reporting some drama about CCB's on the M4 (not properly fitting, getting damaged: replacing those rotors hurts your wallet if not replaced under warranty).
Sounds like the usual chatter. However note that all major mfg have added ceramics, i.e. Porsche, Ferrari, MB, etc. The bite and fade free performance are known winning features. Not to mention lack of brake dust. And yes, typical track guys do not use them because they are too expensive to replace. But for your typical high performance street car, they can't be beat.
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      05-21-2018, 09:41 AM   #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by beppeM3+123d View Post
My topic is the sense of install this new brake or not and my opinion is absolutely NOT!
The brakes will be standard on the car in most markets, although perhaps not in Italy. If you get the car without them, you are specing a lepur and your resale value will be greatly impacted, even if your car might be lighter and maybe even quicker.
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      05-21-2018, 09:58 AM   #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ryem3 View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by beppeM3+123d View Post
My topic is the sense of install this new brake or not and my opinion is absolutely NOT!
The brakes will be standard on the car in most markets, although perhaps not in Italy. If you get the car without them, you are specing a lepur and your resale value will be greatly impacted, even if your car might be lighter and maybe even quicker.
I don't buy a car thinking to sell it! I will buy an M to use it and do not waste money. In Italy is mandatory winter tires so the big brake is a big problem because you loose the 18 inch and the brake force is the same. What I mean that this optional ( that in Italy will be standard ) is a bad choice from m division.

The question is :
M as Motorsport or M as Marketing?
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      05-21-2018, 10:03 AM   #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by beppeM3+123d View Post
This is no sense. Is exactly opposite, believe me I know well in the Monza circuit the difference between ccb and iron brake!

Nobody will do track days all the days. But just one is enough with std brake to waste it. 3 turns and you have to stop, with "new fake brake" 3,5 /4 turns no more.

My topic is the sense of install this new brake or not and my opinion is absolutely NOT!
Not sure what you are saying and what value your opinion brings as you haven't even test drove the M2C with the bigger brake kit.

As I mentioned before a bigger brake system will always add weight but in terms of performance the benefit of better cooling outweigh the slight weight increases.
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      05-21-2018, 10:07 AM   #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Karmic Man View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by beppeM3+123d View Post
This is no sense. Is exactly opposite, believe me I know well in the Monza circuit the difference between ccb and iron brake!

Nobody will do track days all the days. But just one is enough with std brake to waste it. 3 turns and you have to stop, with "new fake brake" 3,5 /4 turns no more.

My topic is the sense of install this new brake or not and my opinion is absolutely NOT!
Not sure what you are saying and what value your opinion brings as you haven't even test drove the M2C with the bigger brake kit.

As I mentioned before a bigger brake system will always add weight but in terms of performance the benefit of better cooling outweigh the slight weight increases.
I drive M4 with ccb and M4 with iron brake on the Monza circuit. The difference is so big that just increase a little bit iron brake is waste of money and weight!
The ridicoulus is to not propose ccb on the m2 neither as retrofit but just propose really expensive carbon parts to reduce weight, increased for a no sense new brake set!
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      05-21-2018, 10:36 AM   #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Karmic Man View Post
You will go broke with ccb if you do frequent track days.

A lot of Porsche GT3 guys with PCCB look for iron rotors replacement when their ceramic rotors are done.

A bigger brake system will always add weight. That's just physics. Ceramic rotors may have less weight but they also have their drawbacks. Replacement cost is a major one.
Most GT3 guys pull the CCB off and put them in a box, put on iron rotors and put the CCB back on when it's time to sell the car.

I wouldn't want CCB on the M2. I personally felt the current brakes were more than adequate on my M2, the only downside is the blue paint turns green which is annoying. I would hate to not be able to use 18" track wheels.
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      05-21-2018, 10:40 AM   #32
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4 season daily driving on 19" just sounds like a bad idea. I think I'd give up some track ability for the daily driving ability.
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      05-21-2018, 10:45 AM   #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CosmosMpower View Post
Most GT3 guys pull the CCB off and put them in a box, put on iron rotors and put the CCB back on when it's time to sell the car.

I wouldn't want CCB on the M2. I personally felt the current brakes were more than adequate on my M2, the only downside is the blue paint turns green which is annoying. I would hate to not be able to use 18" track wheels.
What's the market price for a set of calipers that would work with 18"?
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      05-21-2018, 10:47 AM   #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CosmosMpower View Post
Most GT3 guys pull the CCB off and put them in a box, put on iron rotors and put the CCB back on when it's time to sell the car.

I wouldn't want CCB on the M2. I personally felt the current brakes were more than adequate on my M2, the only downside is the blue paint turns green which is annoying. I would hate to not be able to use 18" track wheels.
Personally I find the 18in track wheel debate old hat now. 19in R compounds really aren't much more than a set of 18in. There is definitely more R compounds to choose from, than back in the day...since more and more performance cars are coming from factory with larger wheels. Tire manufacturers have stepped up. Hell, the GT3 RS now has 21in rear wheels.
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      05-21-2018, 10:56 AM   #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dermator View Post
I think the big brakes looks good, but I am a bit concerned about the additional weight.

Stock brakes:
Stock front caliper 4,89 kg, disc 11,29 kg. Rear caliper 3,6 kg, disc 9,25 kg

Option front caliper 7,54 kg, disc approximately 13,8 kg. Rear caliper 4,3 kg, disc approximately 11,3 kg.
(https://f87.bimmerpost.com/forums/sh....php?t=1307736)

If my assumptions are correct, it all adds up to 15-16 kg of unsprung mass. I am considering not to add this option…
It is about 15kg or 34 lbs.

Last edited by hellrotm; 05-21-2018 at 01:08 PM..
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      05-21-2018, 11:27 AM   #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BlackJetE90 View Post
Personally I find the 18in track wheel debate old hat now. 19in R compounds really aren't much more than a set of 18in. There is definitely more R compounds to choose from, than back in the day...since more and more performance cars are coming from factory with larger wheels. Tire manufacturers have stepped up. Hell, the GT3 RS now has 21in rear wheels.
What about the reduced rubber between your rim and the pot hole?
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      05-21-2018, 11:42 AM   #37
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The forum weighsavers can simply add some CCB rotors. 15kg in weight savings, but pay up sucker.
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      05-21-2018, 12:06 PM   #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BlackJetE90 View Post
Personally I find the 18in track wheel debate old hat now. 19in R compounds really aren't much more than a set of 18in. There is definitely more R compounds to choose from, than back in the day...since more and more performance cars are coming from factory with larger wheels. Tire manufacturers have stepped up. Hell, the GT3 RS now has 21in rear wheels.
Not that many Pirelli dh scrubs in 19. 18” wheels are also lighter and have better clearance. There’s a reason f1 doesn’t use 21” wheels.
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      05-21-2018, 12:42 PM   #39
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So, for the M2 / M2 Competition we got:
  • stock brake discs & blue calipers: 58.180 kg or 128.26 lbs
  • M Sport Brake brake discs & silver/red calipers (option 2NH or M Perf. P.): 74.040 kg or 163.23 lbs
    difference: 15.86 kg or 34.97 lbs extra
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      05-21-2018, 12:51 PM   #40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Artemis View Post
So, for the M2 / M2 Competition we got:
  • stock brake discs & blue calipers: 58.180 kg or 128.26 lbs
  • M Sport Brake brake discs & silver/red calipers (option 2NH or M Perf. P.): 74.040 kg or 163.23 lbs
    difference: 15.86 kg or 34.97 lbs extra
Yes large chunk of weight gain.

If new owners want to save weight and don't mind giving up some increased braking performance. They can switch to the standard brakes. Or if in their country 2NH is not standard, opt out. Personally, 2NH is a must have option.
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      05-21-2018, 01:14 PM   #41
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Artemis View Post
So, for the M2 / M2 Competition we got:
  • stock brake discs & blue calipers: 58.180 kg or 128.26 lbs
  • M Sport Brake brake discs & silver/red calipers (option 2NH or M Perf. P.): 74.040 kg or 163.23 lbs
    difference: 15.86 kg or 34.97 lbs extra
I would think so. The estimated weight the optional discs are based on the stock front disc weight and similar 400 mm sized discs. Also assuming that the calipers are identical in weight to the CCB-kit.

BlackJetE90 mentioned 13 kg. Do you have official numbers, or just a better guestimate?

Except for the price, maybe something like the AP racing kit would be a better alternative. However, I do not know what they would be like on the street, and in the winter. Anybody with experience?

https://www.essexparts.com/essex-des...-f87m2f80m3f82
https://www.essexparts.com/essex-des...36530mm-M2M3M4
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      05-21-2018, 01:21 PM   #42
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dermator View Post
I would think so. The estimated weight the optional discs are based on the stock front disc weight and similar 400 mm sized discs. Also assuming that the calipers are identical in weight to the CCB-kit.

BlackJetE90 mentioned 13 kg. Do you have official numbers, or just a better guestimate?

Except for the price, maybe something like the AP racing kit would be a better alternative. However, I do not know what they would be like on the street, and in the winter. Anybody with experience?

https://www.essexparts.com/essex-des...-f87m2f80m3f82
https://www.essexparts.com/essex-des...36530mm-M2M3M4
Thanks for your numbers. I updated the original post with weights from your link provided. I used weights from new rotor part numbers, as I wasn't sure if the scale weights in that link were of new full thickness rotors. Used the F10 M5 400x36mm front rotor, as I believe the front is the same exact setup(caliper/rotor). Then used weight from M2 front 380x30mm rotor, which would give very close representation of weight.
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      05-21-2018, 01:29 PM   #43
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dermator View Post
I would think so. The estimated weight the optional discs are based on the stock front disc weight and similar 400 mm sized discs. Also assuming that the calipers are identical in weight to the CCB-kit.

BlackJetE90 mentioned 13 kg. Do you have official numbers, or just a better guestimate?

Except for the price, maybe something like the AP racing kit would be a better alternative. However, I do not know what they would be like on the street, and in the winter. Anybody with experience?

https://www.essexparts.com/essex-des...-f87m2f80m3f82
https://www.essexparts.com/essex-des...36530mm-M2M3M4
Quote:
Originally Posted by BlackJetE90 View Post
Thanks for your numbers. I updated the original post with weights from your link provided. I used weights from new rotor part numbers, as I wasn't sure if the scale weights in that link were of new full thickness rotors. Used the F10 M5 400x36mm front rotor, as I believe the front is the same exact setup(caliper/rotor). Then used weight from M2 front 380x30mm rotor, which would give very close representation of weight.
Well I had new full thickness rotor weights listed, but a mod edited my post. Oh well.
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      05-21-2018, 01:33 PM   #44
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Artemis View Post
So, for the M2 / M2 Competition we got:
  • stock brake discs & blue calipers: 58.180 kg or 128.26 lbs
  • M Sport Brake brake discs & silver/red calipers (option 2NH or M Perf. P.): 74.040 kg or 163.23 lbs
    difference: 15.86 kg or 34.97 lbs extra
If your are the one that edited my post. Just note the standard M2 rotors on scale are not new. Full thickness rotors are F/11.3kg and R/9.3kg. Changes the numbers, but not by a significant amount.

Note by Artemis: OK, fixed that. Thanks.
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