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      08-24-2017, 08:47 AM   #507
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Originally Posted by JTO24 View Post
Right?? Cheapest one on Rennlist is like $96k and I doubt they'll drop much in value once the 718 GT4 is released down the road.
Unless the 718 GT4 gets some detuned version of the GT3's 4.0L engine.

Besides the gearing, the one thing that you could (sort of ) knock the 981 GT4 for was the lack of a true GT-spec engine. It was the 991.1 CS engine...which is obviously good, but not the 8800+ revving monster we have seen in the various forms of the GT3 lately.

Although Porsche might keep that in their back pocket for the GT4-RS. That's going to be a lot of fun to watch.

EDIT - I look at the 981 GT4 as a very similar exercise as the 1M was for BMW. I think they wanted to test the market, and so while the 981 GT4 has tons of upgrades over a 981 GTS, Porsche didn't go to the level of giving it a GT-spec engine. Now that they know people really will buy a GT-level Cayman, we might see them sprinkle more magic into the 718 version.
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      08-24-2017, 08:52 AM   #508
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Yeah If I were a buyer in this 80K+ price range then I'd consider other options too. "Civic" M2 at msrp offers a tremendous value, but CS and GTS models- not so much. I'd probably look into other cars at this price point. For not much more, you can get a base 911, which was built as a sports car from the beginning.
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      08-24-2017, 09:16 AM   #509
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Well in Europe at least in the last 6 months the GT4 price came down by 10k EUR from 105-115k to 95-105k and you can get one for 90k that has 10-15k kms done. There are ~150 of them on mobile.de itself and some sitting for a long time there.
With the 12 year warranty that Porsche offers it's one of the best deals you can make on the used market. When more info comes on the 718 GT4 they should go even lower to 85-95k next year.
I want one just waiting for them to announce the next version so I can grab one as 3rd car for as low as possible.
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      08-24-2017, 09:21 AM   #510
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dmboone25 View Post
Unless the 718 GT4 gets some detuned version of the GT3's 4.0L engine.

Besides the gearing, the one thing that you could (sort of ) knock the 981 GT4 for was the lack of a true GT-spec engine. It was the 991.1 CS engine...which is obviously good, but not the 8800+ revving monster we have seen in the various forms of the GT3 lately.

Although Porsche might keep that in their back pocket for the GT4-RS. That's going to be a lot of fun to watch.

EDIT - I look at the 981 GT4 as a very similar exercise as the 1M was for BMW. I think they wanted to test the market, and so while the 981 GT4 has tons of upgrades over a 981 GTS, Porsche didn't go to the level of giving it a GT-spec engine. Now that they know people really will buy a GT-level Cayman, we might see them sprinkle more magic into the 718 version.
Agreed! Other than the lack of brute power, I'm still blown away by my lowly 2.7L flat 6 lol it has so much character and sounds mega at WOT (even without PSE) but this is also my first Porsche and I haven't driven any GT cars so YMMV. So a 981 GT4 with *just* the 3.8 C2S motor is a huge step up for me. I couldn't imagine this platform with a GT-spec engine in there but that hypothetical GT4 would most certainly be $115K+ base MSRP before any options. I think Porsche tested the waters and saw the price people were/are willing to pay for this car. So base price will almost certainly be 6 figures, IMO.

I really like the analogy to the 1M
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      08-24-2017, 09:39 AM   #511
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dmboone25 View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by JTO24 View Post
Right?? Cheapest one on Rennlist is like $96k and I doubt they'll drop much in value once the 718 GT4 is released down the road.
Unless the 718 GT4 gets some detuned version of the GT3's 4.0L engine.

Besides the gearing, the one thing that you could (sort of ) knock the 981 GT4 for was the lack of a true GT-spec engine. It was the 991.1 CS engine...which is obviously good, but not the 8800+ revving monster we have seen in the various forms of the GT3 lately.

Although Porsche might keep that in their back pocket for the GT4-RS. That's going to be a lot of fun to watch.

EDIT - I look at the 981 GT4 as a very similar exercise as the 1M was for BMW. I think they wanted to test the market, and so while the 981 GT4 has tons of upgrades over a 981 GTS, Porsche didn't go to the level of giving it a GT-spec engine. Now that they know people really will buy a GT-level Cayman, we might see them sprinkle more magic into the 718 version.
I prefer my 1M to the GT4. Odd as I'm sure 95% of people would take the GT4. Both are fantastic cars the 1M is just a bit less predictable and I think more fun!
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      08-24-2017, 09:41 AM   #512
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cc3 View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by dmboone25 View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by JTO24 View Post
Right?? Cheapest one on Rennlist is like $96k and I doubt they'll drop much in value once the 718 GT4 is released down the road.
Unless the 718 GT4 gets some detuned version of the GT3's 4.0L engine.

Besides the gearing, the one thing that you could (sort of ) knock the 981 GT4 for was the lack of a true GT-spec engine. It was the 991.1 CS engine...which is obviously good, but not the 8800+ revving monster we have seen in the various forms of the GT3 lately.

Although Porsche might keep that in their back pocket for the GT4-RS. That's going to be a lot of fun to watch.

EDIT - I look at the 981 GT4 as a very similar exercise as the 1M was for BMW. I think they wanted to test the market, and so while the 981 GT4 has tons of upgrades over a 981 GTS, Porsche didn't go to the level of giving it a GT-spec engine. Now that they know people really will buy a GT-level Cayman, we might see them sprinkle more magic into the 718 version.
I prefer my 1M to the GT4. Odd as I'm sure 95% of people would take the GT4. Both are fantastic cars the 1M is just a bit less predictable and I think more fun!
Wow. Interesting. I passed on an opportunity to drive a friend's GT4 on track at Texas World Speedway .. he was in break in and said to keep it under 5k. I said .. thanks but no thanks... I will probably NOT be able to do that.

They are definitely fantastic cars and the only car I would potentially trade the 1M for is a GT4... definitely not a stock M2...

I might offer a dealer to trade me a CS even up... :

Actually .. as a 1M owner .. im sitting at the table holding my cards until the M2 CS or GTS is announced with a manual ... If they don't have 6MT I will fold my hand.

An M2 GTS with a 6 MT .. I would be all in.

Your move BMW
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      08-24-2017, 09:50 AM   #513
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cc3 View Post
I prefer my 1M to the GT4. Odd as I'm sure 95% of people would take the GT4. Both are fantastic cars the 1M is just a bit less predictable and I think more fun!
That percentage is probably a bit conservative.

The true percentage is more likely:

%= (Population of the world - Yourself)/ Population of the world.
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      08-24-2017, 09:55 AM   #514
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Is it going to be as track oriented as the M4 CS (canvas strap door handles, manual seats, etc) or just an improved M2 version a la M4 ZCP?
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      08-24-2017, 10:31 AM   #515
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Robopilingui View Post
Is it going to be as track oriented as the M4 CS (canvas strap door handles, manual seats, etc) or just an improved M2 version a la M4 ZCP?
Good point. It could come with light weight options like manual 2 series seats instead of the motorized ones. That's going to cost us an extra $10k right there.
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      08-24-2017, 10:47 AM   #516
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RBNetEngr View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by kiysersosae View Post
I'm running 410/420hp at the minute and il be honest, unless they sort the suspension out its not worth having the extra power. On the country roads in the UK the car fights the suspension at full tilt (tune on) and all your left with is the feeling that the suspension and chassis cannot cope with the power, tourque and surface. Even with traction off (dsc still on) you find it coming on for a second and that can also be enough to unsettle the car. On smooth roads it's great, but any bumps and it just doesn't work as one until. Switch back to stock, albeit with dp and intercooler, it's much more compliant. Basically, it's great for the track but not as great on b roads.. Just my opinion
This post is very relevant. One of the repeated praises for the M2 is, as shipped from BMW, it has the right combination of suspension and power to make it a well-balanced car. If you've increased the power by 40-50hp, did you make any changes to the suspension to compensate? If not, why blame BMW?

And besides, the track is really the only place that you can reliably and safely use everything that the M2 comes with from BMW. I'm still at a loss to understand how many people line up power, brake, suspension mods, etc., as soon as they buy something like an M2. It's a car that comes from BMW way more capable than virtually any purchaser is (regardless of what you really believe about your driving capabilities). So, rather than spend thousands on a tune to gain some moderate HP, why not spend it on track time, so you can learn to drive it closer to the cars' capabilities?

-rb
Probably the realest post I've seen on this forum
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      08-24-2017, 11:02 AM   #517
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Umm, how many people here that have driven serious cars before the M2 are impressws w the M2? I drove a tuned 135 w suspension mods and walked extremely disappointed from a base M2... the M3 was another level.
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      08-24-2017, 11:21 AM   #518
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dmboone25 View Post
Unless the 718 GT4 gets some detuned version of the GT3's 4.0L engine.

Besides the gearing, the one thing that you could (sort of ) knock the 981 GT4 for was the lack of a true GT-spec engine. It was the 991.1 CS engine...which is obviously good, but not the 8800+ revving monster we have seen in the various forms of the GT3 lately.

Although Porsche might keep that in their back pocket for the GT4-RS. That's going to be a lot of fun to watch. .
Yeah...if the 718 GT4 has a detuned 4.0L, then it won't be a GT4. It will be a GT4 RS, like the rumors have been hinting at. In that case it will have a base price easily passed $100k.
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      08-24-2017, 11:30 AM   #519
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Wow, this thread has been a great read and I really can't wait to see the M2 CS / GTS!
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      08-24-2017, 11:43 AM   #520
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Will you be able to order the M2 CS in an Individual color? Anybody know?
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      08-24-2017, 11:58 AM   #521
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Thumbs up

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Originally Posted by technik330 View Post
Wow, this thread has been a great read and I really can't wait to see the M2 CS / GTS!


I'm getting goosebumps........again.

Deja vu.
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      08-24-2017, 12:15 PM   #522
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Quote:
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mtoosexy View Post
supply and demand my friend. If everyone is paying attention to the CS, or trading in their 16/17's...you never know. a few prople on here have bought for less than msrp. i have quotes of msrp in writing for both LCI and CS. not paying over!!
I think a number of people who got below MSRP are just using the USAA discount or whatever where the dealer still gets paid, they just get the difference from BMW, it wasn't a negotiation or a price reduction. Now some people have actually negotiated below MSRP but again I think most people saying they got 1500 off or whatever are just using some kind of incentive where the dealer doesn't take a hit on the price at all. Many many people when asked about their discounted price said they used a BMW incentive to get their lower price.

Now the most common reason for actually getting below MSRP where dealer takes the his is 17s stitting on the lot when 18s are weeks away or UK M2s. Supply and demand comes into play here for a limited time where buyers are willing to wait a weeks or a month for a face lifted 18 rather than take a 17 so demand dries up and dealers want to get rid of 17s on the lot. The UK lives in the magical land of 5 new m2s and 8 used m2s on the lot, I don't know what that's about, your guess is as good as mine.

As far as the CS I think it's just going to eat into regular M2 production, so it's not going to be increasing the amount of M2s BMW makes. Every CS is one less base M2. What about demand for the CS? Well a ton of people on this forum claim if it's not in manual, they rather drive a van than a DCT M2 CS, so there goes some demand. Also price is obviously going to be a factor. Some can't afford the CS but they can the base. Others who can afford the CS may decide they rather spend that money on a porsche if they are going to open their wallet that wide.

Also what happens if the CS is pretty limited in production? Everyone wants it, but not everyone can have it? Those who can't get it because they didn't ALREADY get on their dealers list are they going to just pass on the M2 altogether now and take their ball and go home? I think if all the CS cars that will be made are already spoken for by the early birds, then interest in the base m2 will remain strong.

I only see the base M2 sitting on lots if M2 base production remains the same ,but CS production is in significant quantity and an addition to the base production, AND the CS is priced within the budget of base M2 buyers. Seems unlikely. But hey if I am wrong then maybe I will be trading mine in for one.

If none of this made any sense, I wrote it at 2am so....
I will confess I didn't read all that

But if it's of use to some the UK dealers do indeed have quite a bit of 17 stock they are discounting. My local for example (after the set of cars from which I bought a month ago) had another 5 cars come in, 4 still available. All this has me optimistic they might get quite some CS and GTS allocations come the day

https://www.halliwelljones.co.uk/bmw...cbpf=.m-models
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      08-24-2017, 12:21 PM   #523
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Will you be able to order the M2 CS in an Individual color? Anybody know?
No
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      08-24-2017, 12:28 PM   #524
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Quote:
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Yeah...if the 718 GT4 has a detuned 4.0L, then it won't be a GT4. It will be a GT4 RS, like the rumors have been hinting at. In that case it will have a base price easily passed $100k.
You are probably right...but let's consider the options:

If the 718 GT4 doesn't get a detuned 4.0L...what does it get? The whole point, according to Porsche, of going to a F4 in the 718/718S was because the 991.2 CS engine with turbos would not physically fit in the 718 body. So what engine would go in there, especially if the GT cars are really going to remain NA like one of the Porsche bosses said last year?

I know from my time on Planet 9 that many people put turbos on their NA 981 engines...so the "not fitting" has always been a bullshit excuse to me. They went F4 to keep the 911 a safe distance ahead, from a performance standpoint. Again with the neutering of the Cayman, because it would most likely outshine a rear-engined 911 if the power happened to be the same...You want a F6 in your Porsche now? You gotta spend 100K+...

So...do they make some crazy powerful F4 to use the in the 718 GT4? That flies in contradiction to what the Porsche bosses said...

Maybe the civic GT4 () gets a detuned 3.8L from the 991.1 GT3 and the GT4-RS gets the 4.0...or they don't make both cars...
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      08-24-2017, 12:34 PM   #525
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ASAP View Post
Umm, how many people here that have driven serious cars before the M2 are impressws w the M2? I drove a tuned 135 w suspension mods and walked extremely disappointed from a base M2... the M3 was another level.
What was it exactly that disappointed you the most? I had a tuned F80 so that will be my baseline for comparison but it was DCT so I got bored pretty quickly. I have a deposit down for a base M2 6mt so I'm curious to know your thoughts.. I've not driven a 2 series of any kind including the M2.. never a 1 series either but I did have a e92 335i back in the day lol
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      08-24-2017, 01:06 PM   #526
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DarkstarZero View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Robopilingui View Post
Is it going to be as track oriented as the M4 CS (canvas strap door handles, manual seats, etc) or just an improved M2 version a la M4 ZCP?
Good point. It could come with light weight options like manual 2 series seats instead of the motorized ones. That's going to cost us an extra $10k right there.
My performance edition came with the manual seats and is excellent for weight savings.

However, they're boring and basic bmw seats (blue stitching is like adding stickers to a car, it provides zero performance value). It makes sense due to the price of the "base/ordinary" M2. But to roll out with an M2 that is in the M3/4 price point, it better have bespoke bucketed seats, the carbon fiber engine bay brace, and those M buttons on the steering wheel in addition to the s55. It would seem to be plug n play parts off the M4.

Otherwise, wouldn't it make more sense to get an M3/4? (preference in chassis aside)
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      08-24-2017, 02:07 PM   #527
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This is going to be nice!
Hopefully X3M/X4M gets 450hp S55 Revised haha
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      08-24-2017, 02:25 PM   #528
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i see a lot of people running with the 80k price...do people think this is reasonable? Sounds like a huge markup over a base M2..if accurate i cannot afford that in my budget. got other things i need to buy lol, can't live in my M2 CS
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