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BMW M2 Forum > BMW M2 CS Model > BMW M2 CS CFRP roof weave issues: "Garching, we have a problem" ?

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      10-13-2020, 04:43 PM   #45
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Would love to know the cost of the M2CS roof as a replacement part.
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      10-13-2020, 05:47 PM   #46
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Originally Posted by 1bmwaddict View Post
Thats why you dont buy the first batch!
This should have nothing to do with first model.
BMW has been making CF roofs for over a decade....there is definitely something really bad about it. I can see that something went wrong in production, but what happened to quality assurance team? They inspect body/paint imperfections and how come they didn't catch it.
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      10-13-2020, 05:47 PM   #47
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Quote:
Originally Posted by e92ben View Post
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Originally Posted by AUSf22 View Post
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Originally Posted by e92ben View Post
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Originally Posted by medphysdave View Post
If my M2CS has any roof defects I'll certainly have a conversation with BMW USA. We don't really have the option to have another car built, or have the roof replaced. Hopefully no one is seeing this on the non press cars.
Roof replacement is so easy.
Hm, not for the M2 CS.

It is not like the other carbon roofs
I'm pretty sure IND can source them from bmw. If you have an issue with them they are easily replaced. Bmwna would forsure do it.
I believe the m2 cs roof is very different and is part of the body as a whole with no structural beams like other carbon roofs.

Replacement for it is certainly not easy.
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      10-13-2020, 07:05 PM   #48
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Won't buy if they are not perfect
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      10-13-2020, 07:42 PM   #49
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Originally Posted by medphysdave View Post
Is this something that ppf helps prevent? Is it mostly UV damage?
PPF won't help with UV issues. if it did any panel with it would look different than panels without it over time.
I'm afraid it's not precisely that.

For example, Xpel entered China in 2015 and ALL of their offering is new formula that is thicker (8mil) and UV resistant (99.9% rated).

In China market, till this point every single customer does full wrap, literally no one does partial wrap not even thinking about it. Hence no concern of color issue.

PPF does help protect car in so many ways. All of my cars are wrapped, and so will all my future rides.
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      10-13-2020, 08:12 PM   #50
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AUSf22 View Post
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Originally Posted by e92ben View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by medphysdave View Post
If my M2CS has any roof defects I'll certainly have a conversation with BMW USA. We don't really have the option to have another car built, or have the roof replaced. Hopefully no one is seeing this on the non press cars.
Roof replacement is so easy.
Hm, not for the M2 CS.

It is not like the other carbon roofs
+1

I think many are thinking this is the same CF roof bmw has been offering for years. It's not. It's structurally different. Not some cap/cover.
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      10-13-2020, 08:16 PM   #51
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wait, the mperf cf roof is 2x2??
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      10-13-2020, 09:33 PM   #52
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Turbomeister View Post
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Originally Posted by Supadice View Post
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My guess is that every M2 CS has those imperfections , but not at the same places. Of course its not a deal braker , and it would rather be perfect than now , but now its over , just take that approach , it was first tested on the M2 CS , each car/roof is unique with those small imperfections. Coming from the OG M2 , i love the CFRP roof , looks like a racing flag ! 🏁 by the way , those imperfections are so minimal in reality , and i also have to admit that the 1x1 weave on the M2 CS is much better looking than the 2x2 . I will provide more photos of the roof tomorrow.
Your roof looks pretty good
It has some imperfections but not huge deal ..
First of all, I love the CS and I'm not really that bothered by the 'defect' but let's be honest, the whole appeal of carbon fiber is its appearance and not any actual practical weight reduction.

The fact that their is a flaw in the roof's weave (whatever the reason) is big fail IMHO. Especially for a replacement part that probably retails for like over $8,000 and about 22 hours of labor to swap.

One thing I would tell you is If I owned a CS and there was a imperfection as this, I would just leave it as is.

No way I'm going to have some dealer tear apart my new vehicle, just for this but it's still upsetting nonetheless.

I guess you can say ambivalent about the subject but I wouldn't lose too much sleep over it..
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      10-13-2020, 09:44 PM   #53
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gds52 View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by 1bmwaddict View Post
Thats why you dont buy the first batch!
They inspect body/paint imperfections and how come they didn't catch it.

A very detailed explanation on why the defect came out the way it did is literally on the very first post..
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      10-13-2020, 10:25 PM   #54
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Originally Posted by gds52 View Post
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Originally Posted by 1bmwaddict View Post
Thats why you dont buy the first batch!
They inspect body/paint imperfections and how come they didn't catch it.
A very detailed explanation on why the defect came out the way it did is literally on the very first post..
Thanks for pointing out. I just read the complete post and this is even more embarrassing that BMW knowingly sold the defective product.
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      10-13-2020, 11:32 PM   #55
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Quote:
Originally Posted by msdss View Post
wait, the mperf cf roof is 2x2??
BMW CF roofs have always been (up until the M2CS) plain weave 1x1, all the M "performance" bits have always been 2x2 twill weave, something that bothered me so much ever since the E9x gens when owners fitted non matching CF mirror caps, even tho it was a BMW option.
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      10-13-2020, 11:57 PM   #56
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I didn't know F80 roofs were having issues too.

This is the problem I have with BMW wasting money on a huge gimmick like a CF roof that will cost a ton of money to replace. I don't care that it's a couple lbs from the top of the car, it's still a negligible amount of sprung weight, probably does nothing to the overall center of gravity.

Please BMW, just put the money for these trinkets into stuff like the actual suspension or drivetrain next time.
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      10-14-2020, 12:00 AM   #57
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So is this the only BMW CF roof that doesn't sit on cross beams? The only one that's strong enough to take the entire load? And they'll never make it again?
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      10-14-2020, 12:05 AM   #58
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Igor_M5 View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by msdss View Post
wait, the mperf cf roof is 2x2??
BMW CF roofs have always been (up until the M2CS) plain weave 1x1, all the M "performance" bits have always been 2x2 twill weave, something that bothered me so much ever since the E9x gens when owners fitted non matching CF mirror caps, even tho it was a BMW option.
Agreed! It always bothered me that the weaves didn't match. The only time they did it right was with the E46 CSL.
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      10-14-2020, 12:29 AM   #59
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The more this becomes an issue the more it becomes part of the story of this car. Every good car has some foibles that people point to over time and eventually look out for.
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      10-14-2020, 12:47 AM   #60
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AUSf22 View Post
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Originally Posted by e92ben View Post
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Originally Posted by AUSf22 View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by e92ben View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by medphysdave View Post
If my M2CS has any roof defects I'll certainly have a conversation with BMW USA. We don't really have the option to have another car built, or have the roof replaced. Hopefully no one is seeing this on the non press cars.
Roof replacement is so easy.
Hm, not for the M2 CS.

It is not like the other carbon roofs
I'm pretty sure IND can source them from bmw. If you have an issue with them they are easily replaced. Bmwna would forsure do it.
I believe the m2 cs roof is very different and is part of the body as a whole with no structural beams like other carbon roofs.

Replacement for it is certainly not easy.
There ZERO chances it's part of the chassis. It's literally glued on like every other carbon roof Bmw has made.
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      10-14-2020, 01:36 AM   #61
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Igor_M5 View Post
BMW CF roofs have always been (up until the M2CS) plain weave 1x1, all the M "performance" bits have always been 2x2 twill weave, something that bothered me so much ever since the E9x gens when owners fitted non matching CF mirror caps, even tho it was a BMW option.
You're correct. Thanks for pointing this out.

See for example here for an explanation of the different weave patterns ("Carbon Fiber - All Patterns Explained").

The difference between for example an F82 M4 CFRP roof and an F87 M2 CS CFRP roof is the size of the weave pattern.

To stand corrected, I updated the first post of this thread accordingly.

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Name:  TwillWeave_2.jpg
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      10-14-2020, 01:36 AM   #62
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Quote:
Originally Posted by e92ben View Post
There is ZERO chances it's part of the chassis. It's literally glued on like every other carbon roof Bmw has made.
https://www.bmwblog.com/2020/06/21/b...nical-details/

"For the M2 CS, the Germans developed their own unique roof, which is a structural part of the bodywork! This is different from the way aftermarket solutions are available in the market, or even the M Performance solution"

Lots of info on this.
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      10-14-2020, 02:02 AM   #63
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Quote:
Originally Posted by e92ben View Post
There ZERO chances it's part of the chassis. It's literally glued on like every other carbon roof Bmw has made.
As noted in the first post of this thread, the BMW M2 CS features a new type of CFRP roof:
"The new roof, with its sandwich design, makes the body more rigid and appears to have been cut from the same mould as the rest of the car; no trim strips are needed, meaning no visible join[t]s either. This has the additional effect of enhancing acoustics, both inside and outside the car. And dispensing with the customary roof bows and insulation also saves weight. Together with the lighter bonnet, this serves to lower the vehicle’s centre of gravity, resulting in even better driving dynamics."
(source: BMW press materials - see here)
Furthermore, the M2 CS roof features no roof rack anchorage points (roof drip rail with flaps).
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      10-14-2020, 02:22 AM   #64
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Igor_M5 View Post
BMW CF roofs have always been (up until the M2CS) plain weave 1x1, all the M "performance" bits have always been 2x2 twill weave, something that bothered me so much ever since the E9x gens when owners fitted non matching CF mirror caps, even tho it was a BMW option.
The M2CS does have plain weave CF on roof. Its just on the bottom side of the sandwich so you can't see it.
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      10-14-2020, 03:42 AM   #65
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Quote:
Originally Posted by e92ben View Post
There ZERO chances it's part of the chassis. It's literally glued on like every other carbon roof Bmw has made.
I'm afraid your guess or assumption does not equate to it being true.

The roof is an integral part of the M2CS and is not like "every other" carbon roof.. as we have mentioned to you throughout the thread a few times...
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      10-14-2020, 03:58 AM   #66
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Carbon fibre roofs have to be covered in ppf and then ceramic coated for optimal protection. Otherwise they will deteriorate when parked outside in harsh climates.
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