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      11-30-2021, 11:06 PM   #23
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Originally Posted by chris719 View Post
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Originally Posted by ASAP View Post
I would not swap... yes the CSL is special... the CS is a better / modern car.

That SMG is awful and by modern standards its still a slow car... it also has 0 daily qualities if you care about that.
Yes, if the OP is going to drive the car daily, or much at all, then I would keep the CS. The CSL is not a good daily at all, and if I owned one it would be garaged 98% of the time.

If we are talking as a collectible, the CS is inferior to the CSL and will never be valued similarly.
Quote:
Originally Posted by chris719;28311761

[U
If we are talking as a collectible, [\U]the CS is inferior to the CSL and will never be valued similarly.
I propose, it's both unfair, and at the same time, an honour to have these two cars compared against each other.

Is there a doubt that the E46 M3 CSL is a brilliant collector's delight, even more so in an excellent condition? certainly not.

Is the F87 M2 CS an inferior car to the E46 M3 CSL (with regards to collectables at least)? Certainly not.

E46 CSL stats suggest only 1383 were manufactured between 2002 and 2004. Close to 40% or 544 were manufactured in right-hand-drive from which 23 made it to Australia with most of the rest landing in the UK. E46 CSL never came with a manual gearbox.

F87 M2 CS was manufactured in one single year and was offered with only 4 options, the most important of which was the availability of a 6MT. Although official production stats are yet to surface, it's rumoured to number circa 2200 with less than 450 in RHD.

All indications are pointing to a fairly even breakup of DCT Vs 6MT (from what I can come up with, it's around 43 to 57 in favour of DCT).

For a scarcity analysis, not including the manual M2CSs, you have roughly the same number of DCT CSs as the E46 CSLs were made.

Now, the cars themselves:

The F87 CS wasn't made to compete with the M3 CSL; for that we have the G82 M4 CSL coming. The CS was engineered as a road-going sports-car with added track focus.

Who knows what future brings but I do recall people playing down the M3 CSL back in the day complaining about price and transmission (little later on). Yet we know what history has proven in 15+ short years after M3 CSL production came to an end.

With the EVO PCOTY 2020 under its belt and many more accolades from every corner, I wouldn't discount the M2 CS and call it inferior to anything, because it truly is (imho) in a league all to its own.

In 15 years' time, as it is today with the E46 M3 CSL, the inaugural M2CS, may equally prove to be (one of the) best cars ///M division has ever engineered. Heck, it may not, who knows, but the fact is, we've all had 15+ years to come to our conclusions regarding the CSL; let's give the CS a few more years before dismissing it as a formidable challenge to the CSL.

If OP had the chance to keep both, that would be the best outcome, otherwise it's going to be a hard decision to make. To that end, I wish the best outcome for the OP.
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      12-01-2021, 12:46 AM   #24
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I firmly believe that if they changed absolutely nothing to the M2CS, and only sold it in Europe, this thread would have a different ring to it.
I don't think so. I think there are too many kool-aid drinkers here that haven't driven Porsches or other true sports cars.
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      12-01-2021, 06:29 AM   #25
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Originally Posted by chris719 View Post
I don't think so. I think there are too many kool-aid drinkers here that haven't driven Porsches or other true sports cars.
LOL. Certainly a ring of truth to that, but from someone who has, it's a cool car to drive.
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      12-01-2021, 06:47 AM   #26
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Originally Posted by chris719 View Post
I don't think so. I think there are too many kool-aid drinkers here that haven't driven Porsches or other true sports cars.
LOL. Certainly a ring of truth to that, but from someone who has, it's a cool car to drive.
Yes, there is truth to it.

I've had full access to some great cars, the best 2 were a McLaren MP4-12C and a 997 GT3. Both were superior to the CS in terms of driving dynamics, especially the McLaren. Both were much less practical than the CS, especially the McLaren.

Both were simply not as much fun on the road (without getting arrested), besides the wow factor of onlookers. I'd still get any GT3 6MT in a heartbeat, but only as a second car (third car in the household).

For an everyday driver, it's hard to beat the M2CS for me.
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      12-01-2021, 08:21 AM   #27
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Originally Posted by mfarrzhp View Post
Yes, there is truth to it.

I've had full access to some great cars, the best 2 were a McLaren MP4-12C and a 997 GT3. Both were superior to the CS in terms of driving dynamics, especially the McLaren. Both were much less practical than the CS, especially the McLaren.

Both were simply not as much fun on the road (without getting arrested), besides the wow factor of onlookers. I'd still get any GT3 6MT in a heartbeat, but only as a second car (third car in the household).

For an everyday driver, it's hard to beat the M2CS for me.
I had a nice 997.1 GT3 and it wasn't a fun to drive as the M2 CS. Also it wasn't as fast.

Anyway to answer the question of the OP.

YES TRADE FOR THE M3 CSL, it's a numbers / time game. M2 CS will outlast the M3 CSL. Take advantage of the M3 CSL while it's still around / available.

If your M2 CS is a manual, don't do it
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      12-01-2021, 08:39 AM   #28
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Originally Posted by ptgltw View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by mfarrzhp View Post
Yes, there is truth to it.

I've had full access to some great cars, the best 2 were a McLaren MP4-12C and a 997 GT3. Both were superior to the CS in terms of driving dynamics, especially the McLaren. Both were much less practical than the CS, especially the McLaren.

Both were simply not as much fun on the road (without getting arrested), besides the wow factor of onlookers. I'd still get any GT3 6MT in a heartbeat, but only as a second car (third car in the household).

For an everyday driver, it's hard to beat the M2CS for me.
I had a nice 997.1 GT3 and it wasn't a fun to drive as the M2 CS. Also it wasn't as fast.

Anyway to answer the question of the OP.

YES TRADE FOR THE M3 CSL, it's a numbers / time game. M2 CS will outlast the M3 CSL. Take advantage of the M3 CSL while it's still around / available.

If your M2 CS is a manual, don't do it
I love the last sentence in your statement Mike, and concur with it, absolutely.
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      12-01-2021, 11:40 AM   #29
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M2 CS in manual takes the cake.
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      12-01-2021, 11:53 AM   #30
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[QUOTE=chris719;28311761]Yes, if the OP is going to drive the car daily, or much at all, then I would keep the CS. The CSL is not a good daily at all, and if I owned one it would be garaged 98% of the time.

If we are talking as a collectible, the CS is inferior to the CSL and will never be valued similarly./QUOTE]

I mean I could argue that on production numbers alone and the simple fact that it was not available in the USA.

The same applies for the 1M... if it was produced to the level the M2 was... its value would have tanked by now.
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      12-01-2021, 12:09 PM   #31
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That's why now is the time to buy a CSL if you live in a country where it's legal & available.. In only a couple more years it will be legal to import to the US, and that will without a doubt drive the prices up since the market is going to basically double on people wanting the car.
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      12-01-2021, 02:03 PM   #32
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[QUOTE=ASAP;28314574]
Quote:
Originally Posted by chris719 View Post
Yes, if the OP is going to drive the car daily, or much at all, then I would keep the CS. The CSL is not a good daily at all, and if I owned one it would be garaged 98% of the time.

If we are talking as a collectible, the CS is inferior to the CSL and will never be valued similarly./QUOTE]

I mean I could argue that on production numbers alone and the simple fact that it was not available in the USA.

The same applies for the 1M... if it was produced to the level the M2 was... its value would have tanked by now.
Are you talking about M2 or M2CS when you compare it with the 1M? Because more than 7000 1Ms were produced compared to 2200ish M2CSs
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      12-01-2021, 02:08 PM   #33
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[QUOTE=MadBimmeRad;28315051]
Quote:
Originally Posted by ASAP View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by chris719 View Post
Yes, if the OP is going to drive the car daily, or much at all, then I would keep the CS. The CSL is not a good daily at all, and if I owned one it would be garaged 98% of the time.

If we are talking as a collectible, the CS is inferior to the CSL and will never be valued similarly./QUOTE]

I mean I could argue that on production numbers alone and the simple fact that it was not available in the USA.

The same applies for the 1M... if it was produced to the level the M2 was... its value would have tanked by now.
Are you talking about M2 or M2CS when you compare it with the 1M? Because now than 7000 1Ms were produced compared to 2200ish M2CSs
Full M2 production run... there were 3 instances of a 2 series M car... only 1 of the 1 series. Plus remember only 740 1M's were brought over to the USA.
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      12-01-2021, 02:30 PM   #34
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[QUOTE=ASAP;28315072]
Quote:
Originally Posted by MadBimmeRad View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by ASAP View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by chris719 View Post
Yes, if the OP is going to drive the car daily, or much at all, then I would keep the CS. The CSL is not a good daily at all, and if I owned one it would be garaged 98% of the time.

If we are talking as a collectible, the CS is inferior to the CSL and will never be valued similarly./QUOTE]

I mean I could argue that on production numbers alone and the simple fact that it was not available in the USA.

The same applies for the 1M... if it was produced to the level the M2 was... its value would have tanked by now.
Are you talking about M2 or M2CS when you compare it with the 1M? Because now than 7000 1Ms were produced compared to 2200ish M2CSs
Full M2 production run... there were 3 instances of a 2 series M car... only 1 of the 1 series. Plus remember only 740 1M's were brought over to the USA.
OK, I got you, but the 1M was always going to be a limited edition production so I think it should be compared with the M2 CS not ALL M2s (obviously that's only an opinion on my list and maybe wrong)
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      12-01-2021, 07:15 PM   #35
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[QUOTE=ASAP;28315072]
Quote:
Originally Posted by MadBimmeRad View Post
Full M2 production run... there were 3 instances of a 2 series M car... only 1 of the 1 series. Plus remember only 740 1M's were brought over to the USA.
I think only 589 M2cs's made it to the US. Bottom line the OP has a dilemma most would love to have..
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      12-01-2021, 08:44 PM   #36
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[QUOTE=ASAP;28315072]
Quote:
Originally Posted by MadBimmeRad View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by ASAP View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by chris719 View Post
Yes, if the OP is going to drive the car daily, or much at all, then I would keep the CS. The CSL is not a good daily at all, and if I owned one it would be garaged 98% of the time.

If we are talking as a collectible, the CS is inferior to the CSL and will never be valued similarly./QUOTE]

I mean I could argue that on production numbers alone and the simple fact that it was not available in the USA.

The same applies for the 1M... if it was produced to the level the M2 was... its value would have tanked by now.
Are you talking about M2 or M2CS when you compare it with the 1M? Because now than 7000 1Ms were produced compared to 2200ish M2CSs
Full M2 production run... there were 3 instances of a 2 series M car... only 1 of the 1 series. Plus remember only 740 1M's were brought over to the USA.
OK, granted, there was only one M car in the 1-series but that doesn't detract from the fact that BMW never intended to make a 1-series in true M spirit.

They had the M135i and that was that until some bored engineers, perhaps inebriated with Rum, decided to tap into the M3 parts bin and create a monster to their own liking. We know how the rest goes.

It was a minor miracle that the 1M made it into production, which as previously mentioned, was a limited run production. In fact, oftentimes I wonder to myself, were these engineers unintentionally responsible for the M2 becoming a reality?

I mean, would BMW have considered introducing a true M to the 2-series, had the 1M not been as successful as it turned out to be?

The original M2, in many eyes, wasn't a true M-car until the Competition came about.

The success of the 1-series, is what prompted the introduction of the 2-series. The success of the M2 OG, is what prompted the true-M Competition and later on the CS to go the way they did (M2CS is basically a shorter more fun-to-drive version of the M3/4 inheriting everything from the bigger brethren).

Out of the three iterations of M2 you rightly so pointed out, I still believe only the last should be compared with the 1M as it, the M2CS, was also a limited run production.

I'm not suggesting you're wrong; merely starting how I see it. From different vantage points, we're both right.
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