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      04-11-2019, 11:21 PM   #45
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Originally Posted by mikeahso View Post
My thoughts on the matter...

I also liked the 90s RX-7 more than the Supra but as you said, that rotary engine reliability...ugh
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      05-03-2019, 07:54 AM   #46
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Quote:
Originally Posted by heavyD^2 View Post
I know the ZF has come a long way and is close to DCT performance but you still see lots of reviews with the ZF where the transmission gets confused and is slow to respond at times.
I don't get your comparison. If you are comparing the ZF8 to a DCT, wouldn't you be using the ZF8 in manual mode? No confusion there...
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      05-03-2019, 08:18 AM   #47
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Originally Posted by MassNerd View Post
I don't get your comparison. If you are comparing the ZF8 to a DCT, wouldn't you be using the ZF8 in manual mode? No confusion there...
It's not like everyone uses the paddles all the time especially on the street.
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      05-03-2019, 12:15 PM   #48
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Quote:
Originally Posted by heavyD^2 View Post
It's not like everyone uses the paddles all the time especially on the street.


My point is, this thread is mostly about how people love a manual 6 speed. You want to compare using the DCT in auto mode vs the ZF8 in auto mode.

I think most enthusiasts, if they care about being in control of the car, are driving in manual mode, not pondering which auto mode program is better.
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      05-03-2019, 01:34 PM   #49
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MassNerd View Post


My point is, this thread is mostly about how people love a manual 6 speed. You want to compare using the DCT in auto mode vs the ZF8 in auto mode.

I think most enthusiasts, if they care about being in control of the car, are driving in manual mode, not pondering which auto mode program is better.
Sigh. I'm not even sure what's the point of your point, as this thread is all about the M2C vs the new Toyota Supra not a transmission argument. I think that the majority of auto owners still end up driving in auto mode a lot. I know this because in my VW Golf R years I was involved in several discussions of owners criticizing the DSG programming for their normal and sport modes being set up for extremes. Are there owners that use the paddles almost exclusively? Sure there probably are but they aren't the majority in the big picture. Let's not pretend we all spend every weekend at the track because the truth is that few of these cars ever end up there and even at that most drivers will get quicker times in sport mode at the track compared to shifting themselves as take a look at videos for pro drivers getting top times in cars like the GT2 RS around the ring and you won't see them using the paddles much at all as they let the PDK do a lot of the shifting to get the best times.

Can we move past sidetracking this thread to a place that's just not fitting of the intent of the thread?
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      05-03-2019, 02:34 PM   #50
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Quote:
Originally Posted by heavyD^2 View Post
I agree. I would much rather the DCT in this car than the ZF8. I know the ZF has come a long way and is close to DCT performance but you still see lots of reviews with the ZF where the transmission gets confused and is slow to respond at times. I think it's a bad move because I would take a DCT over a manual any day of the week but if it's between a manual and a ZF I'm not so sure as it's just not a sports car transmission.
I don't know if you've driven a DCT, but I can assure you the DCT gets confused in automatic mode as well. I'd actually be shocked if the DCT is any better than the ZF8 in auto mode.
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      05-03-2019, 10:39 PM   #51
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chris719 View Post
I don't know if you've driven a DCT, but I can assure you the DCT gets confused in automatic mode as well. I'd actually be shocked if the DCT is any better than the ZF8 in auto mode.
Yes. The DCT auto mode is good for heavy stop start traffic and when you have massive brain fuzz. Other than that, just no.

I am 90%+ in manual mode. I think it’s a faster manual gear box that also has a convenience auto mode (that you would never use for spirited driving if so, you bought the wrong car). Whereas the ZF8 is an auto that has a pretty good manual mode that I believe locks up the torque converter.
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      05-04-2019, 08:20 AM   #52
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Depending on world market, the Supra is stupidly priced.

Its gestation period was a joke (and 370Z is the last remaining Japanese dinosaur), and so are all its FAKE vents and an automatic box, with no manual or DCT. It isn't a true Supra successor either, not being a 2+2.

A GR version may one day show up, but the above points will still apply. And BMW has stated there are no plans for a Z4M.
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      05-04-2019, 12:32 PM   #53
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chris719 View Post
I don't know if you've driven a DCT, but I can assure you the DCT gets confused in automatic mode as well. I'd actually be shocked if the DCT is any better than the ZF8 in auto mode.
Owned several.
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      05-14-2019, 05:01 PM   #54
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      05-14-2019, 07:01 PM   #55
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How the heck does it accelerate that fast with only 335 HP? It's only 100 lbs lighter than an OG M2.
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      05-14-2019, 08:01 PM   #56
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Supra looks like a matchbox car too boy racer for my 54 year old ass. I was smitten with the new Z4 roadster as I would’ve taken it over the Supra any day of the week but after test driving the new Z4 the car was very nice but I knew the auto tranny would get boring after awhile. This and no back seat kinda left me feeling very tight in the car. I am 5’10” and weigh 215 lbs. I may not use the back seat often to justify it on my 2020 M2C 6 speed manual but it gives the interior a roomier feel and the car feels not only more substantial and refined but has good visibility and it gives me the feeling that I am in a Man’s sports coupe that wears two hats, refined daily driver and track beast. I have gotten nice compliments with this car as it commands respect and makes a statement about my mindset to those who look in envy and admire it. This car has been my most fun to drive car and it is not my daily driver but my go to toy and helps me unwind and it is actually therapeutic to own and drive. One last note, the new Supra has poor visibility and probably a PIA to get in and out of.

Last edited by NYMMan; 05-14-2019 at 08:04 PM.. Reason: Spelling
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      05-14-2019, 08:43 PM   #57
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Quote:
Originally Posted by heavyD^2 View Post
How the heck does it accelerate that fast with only 335 HP? It's only 100 lbs lighter than an OG M2.
Sounds seriously underrated. Curious what the dyno says.
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      05-15-2019, 12:26 AM   #58
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Quote:
Originally Posted by heavyD^2 View Post
How the heck does it accelerate that fast with only 335 HP? It's only 100 lbs lighter than an OG M2.
“It's less a question of whether or not the Supra's 335-hp inline-six is underrated, and more about how much.”

“Our best runs involved a light dollop of brake torquing to get engine revs off idle and then carefully applying the gas pedal to avoid excessive wheelspin. The launch-control program, which was inconsistent in its engagement, was considerably slower.”

“By 100 mph, the Supra falls behind the Camaro SS 1LE and the M2, and, by 150 mph, the Supra is trailing those two by 1.5 and 3.2 seconds, respectively.”

https://www.caranddriver.com/news/a2...on-zero-to-60/

Nice car.
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      05-16-2019, 10:46 PM   #59
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pz619 View Post
Sounds seriously underrated. Curious what the dyno says.
Besides being underrated in terms of power and around 100lbs lighter, it’s also a lower car and maybe the Cd and frontal area are better than the M2.

I’ve been set on going with the m2c but I love that the Supra is a dedicated sports car chassis and the styling is exciting. I can’t get over the 8at though. If I’m buying a fun car I want 6MT so it’s still the m2c for me unless toyota adds the 6MT

As for whether it’s really a Supra or not, I don’t really care. All I’m looking for is something the looks great and is fun to drive. The name on the trunk lid doesn’t matter to me. I just see it as a better looking z4 hardtop rather than a Toyota. To me the z4 is a bit bland and soft. The m2c and the i8 are the only bmws in the current lineup that I love. I do think the Supra has a nicer interior the. The M2 though, but I’d still take m2c with 6MT,
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      05-17-2019, 06:15 PM   #60
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Davil View Post
“It's less a question of whether or not the Supra's 335-hp inline-six is underrated, and more about how much.”

“Our best runs involved a light dollop of brake torquing to get engine revs off idle and then carefully applying the gas pedal to avoid excessive wheelspin. The launch-control program, which was inconsistent in its engagement, was considerably slower.”

“By 100 mph, the Supra falls behind the Camaro SS 1LE and the M2, and, by 150 mph, the Supra is trailing those two by 1.5 and 3.2 seconds, respectively.”

https://www.caranddriver.com/news/a2...on-zero-to-60/

Nice car.
Not sure where they are getting their numbers from. The Supra is slightly faster to 150 mph according to their own 2016 instrumented tests of both the 6MT and DCT M2.
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      05-18-2019, 11:52 PM   #61
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chris719 View Post
Not sure where they are getting their numbers from. The Supra is slightly faster to 150 mph according to their own 2016 instrumented tests of both the 6MT and DCT M2.
They meant M2C.
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      05-24-2019, 09:57 AM   #62
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If you can get past the looks...

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      05-24-2019, 10:10 AM   #63
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Quote:
Originally Posted by heavyD^2 View Post
How the heck does it accelerate that fast with only 335 HP? It's only 100 lbs lighter than an OG M2.
its dynoing at 339whp and 427wtq. thats a lot of tq.

https://www.caranddriver.com/news/a2...no-horsepower/
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      05-27-2019, 10:51 AM   #64
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TemjinX2 View Post
its dynoing at 339whp and 427wtq. thats a lot of tq.

https://www.caranddriver.com/news/a2...no-horsepower/
It definitely is a lot of torque. I’m betting the zf8’s torque converter wasn’t locked and they were seeing the torque multiplication from the converter, but who knows...

Although the stock zf8 programming I’ve seen typically keeps it fully locked for anything beyond 1st and the 1->2 shift
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      05-27-2019, 11:19 AM   #65
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"Supra looks like a matchbox car too boy racer for my 54 year old ass." I agree with you..and my back-end is 11 years older ;-)
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      05-28-2019, 10:24 AM   #66
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BlkSVT View Post
It definitely is a lot of torque. I’m betting the zf8’s torque converter wasn’t locked and they were seeing the torque multiplication from the converter, but who knows...

Although the stock zf8 programming I’ve seen typically keeps it fully locked for anything beyond 1st and the 1->2 shift
the hp numbers are within line with other b58 dynos. main difference is the huge tq numbers. I bet the supra uses the same high output b58 variant that the z4 does. It would cost more money for bmw and toyota to make two different variants of the b58.

its probably the same engine and BMW just had toyota pull some timing to lower the hp numbers. usually when you see that kind of difference between whp and wtq its because of higher boost and low timing or a really low reving engine like a diesel.
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