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      11-24-2019, 10:03 AM   #243
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Artemis View Post
FWIW (unconfirmed), see here:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Artemis View Post
In this video is mentioned (02:35-02:40) that the M2 CS laps the Nürburgring Nordschleife 8 seconds faster than the M2 Competition.

If officially confirmed as accurate, this means a ± 7:44 lap time for the M2 CS.

BMW M lap times (source: here)
  • 7:27.88 = F82 M4 GTS
  • 7:38 = F80 M3 CS + F82 M4 CS
  • 7:38.92 = F90 M5
  • ±7:44 = F87 M2 CS
  • 7:48 = E92 M3 GTS
  • 7:50 = E46 M3 CSL
  • 7:52 = F82 M4
  • 7:52.36 = F87 M2 Competition
  • 7:54 = F10 M5 Competition
  • 7:58 = F87 M2
  • 8:05 = E92 M3
  • 8:07 = E52 Z8
  • 8:09 = E63 M6
  • 8:12 = E86 Z4 M Coupé
  • 8:13 = E60 M5
  • 8:15 = E82 1M
  • 8:22 = E46 M3
  • 8:22 = E36/8 M3
  • 8:35 = E36 M3
  • 8:50 = E30 M3
BTW, F82 M4cs is 7:35

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      11-24-2019, 10:04 AM   #244
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bavarianboar View Post
I for one do not want a car of 2 series size for that price, I'd look for other 2 door Porsche Cayman GTS
Do you realize that the difference in size/length between the M2 CS (4-seater) and 718 Cayman GT4 (2-seater) is only 5mm (0.5cm or 0.2inch) ?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Artemis View Post
The F87 M2 (base, LCI, Competition and CS) is definitely a 4-seater. Not some 2+2 (Porsche 911, Audi TT, etc.).
I consider the M2 CS backseats and extended boot space when you fully fold these down (60/40), a practical benefit on a high performance car. Not only to share driving fun with kids, but also to transport stuff to a track or on longer trips.
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Originally Posted by Artemis View Post
And so it appears that the length of M2C + M2 CS and 718 GT4 are virtually identical (difference of only 5mm/0.5cm or 0.2in), unlike the wheelbase (difference of 20.9cm or 8.23in).

Length and wheelbase:
  • 981 GT4 = 4438mm (174.72in) | wheelbase: 2474mm (97.40in)
  • 718 GT4 = 4456mm (175.43in) | wheelbase: 2484mm (97.80in)
  • M2 Competition = 4461mm (175.63in) | wheelbase: 2693mm (106.02in)
  • M2 CS = 4461mm (175.63in) | wheelbase: 2693mm (106.02in)
  • original M2 = 4468mm (175.91in) | wheelbase: 2693mm (106.02in)
  • E46 M3 = 4492mm (176.85in) | wheelbase: 2731mm (107.52in)
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      11-24-2019, 10:18 AM   #245
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CanAutM3 View Post
BTW, F82 M4cs is 7:35
You are correct. Initially: 07:38 | Later: 07:35: see 09:49-10:19 of this video.

Nowadays BMW still quotes 07:38 on its website (see here):



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      11-24-2019, 11:08 AM   #246
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Originally Posted by chmura View Post
I'm waiting back for 6+ months after they land stateside and letting the few suckers buy at msrp (and some probably over) and then gonna snap one $10k or so off msrp.

This thing is sweet but not $28k over M2c sweet.
I'll be one of the suckers. If someone can spend $100 like you spend $20. Are they really suckers, or do they just not have to worry about it or care. I'm by no means saying I'm in the $100 camp, just saying some folks have enough disposable income that $5k or 10k is meaningless in their life scheme.

I think it's a little offensive.
Nailed it!

If you consider % to income it's a negligible amount of money for some.
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      11-24-2019, 11:24 AM   #247
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Quote:
Originally Posted by medphysdave View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by chmura View Post
I'm waiting back for 6+ months after they land stateside and letting the few suckers buy at msrp (and some probably over) and then gonna snap one $10k or so off msrp.

This thing is sweet but not $28k over M2c sweet.
I'll be one of the suckers. If someone can spend $100 like you spend $20. Are they really suckers, or do they just not have to worry about it or care. I'm by no means saying I'm in the $100 camp, just saying some folks have enough disposable income that $5k or 10k is meaningless in their life scheme.

I think it's a little offensive.
Nailed it!

If you consider % to income it's a negligible amount of money for some.
If this is the case I hope we see a good percent of CCBs ordered. Great option for a street car or light HPDE use.
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      11-24-2019, 11:33 AM   #248
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At anything over $80K, you have a choice of a slightly used M3/4CS with warranty and faster around the Nurburgring. You can also buy a brand new C8 Corvette which is even faster! I've owned the M2 and upgraded to the M2C for the engine. I do not DD my M2C, it is purely a fun/weekend/track car for me. I can afford the M2CS, but for my money a C8 Corvette with the Z51 package and the MagneRide suspension will be more fun on track. I buy my cars to drive and take them on track. I have a Corvette on order and I was offered a M2CS allocation at MSRP. I passed on the M2CS. But, I will keep my M2C.
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      11-24-2019, 11:33 AM   #249
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Originally Posted by FrozenB7 View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by bavarianboar View Post
Agree!

How much is a Porsche Panamera that I can put in sport+ mode and have the beast in it come out.

I for one do not want a car of 2 series size for that price, I'd look for other 2 door Porsche Cayman GTS
LOL. BMW has produced a lovely, exclusive car with a 450+ hp straight 6 paired with an honest-to-goodness manual and people want to play the "I can go faster for less" game. If you don't get it, you aren't the target audience. This car is already sold out.

Unlike the M3 CS and M4 GTS, the M2 CS can be paired with an actual clutch pedal. Brilliant. I can see the DCT cars taking a hit but not the 6MT. Unless you really do require maximum track performance, spec the stick.

Also, a lot of people mentioning GT4 as a better option. I don't buy that comparison: the M2 CS is "maximum BMW" in the sense that it combines BMW's best traditional ingredients in an exclusive package for enthusiasts. It could be the last "BMW BMW" (have you seen the grille on the upcoming compact M cars?). That alone makes it worth a garage space, for now. The GT4 is awesome but it lacks the legitimate motorsports engine available in the 991.2 GT3/Speedster. It isn't "maximum Porsche."

Looking forward to welcoming the CS to the family.
I totally get what you are saying. I also figure you got your hands on one of those rare ones.

And presumably this is your 4th or 11th car in the garage that can find some space.

There are reasons why they would make such cars in low numbers, it's an engineering feat. True manual tranny characteristics, I can understand the real last "bmw bmw", likely not.

And you do bring the design elements into comparison, I personally never liked the 2 series it looks like a toy car to me, those tail lights are super lazy design as if they just ran out of ideas (aren't all cars these days? Look at the confused C class a brainchild ve and Audi tail lights Lol). Grill size sanity is just holding up enough in the smaller BMW cars. I recall Chris Bangle on design of tail lights with the man himself admitting it was harder of most design problems to solve.

Saw an article comparing cayman, 911 and Audi R8 where the track times were so similar within 100th of sec that either it's track driver difference or only a handful of those lucky M2 CS owners would be able to hit that track time difference with their super license and F1 training certificate.

Enjoy in good health it's a unique collectible car that i can appreciate if I had a tonne of $
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      11-24-2019, 11:44 AM   #250
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TonyL128 View Post
At anything over $80K, you have a choice of a slightly used M3/4CS with warranty and faster around the Nurburgring. You can also buy a brand new C8 Corvette which is even faster! I've owned the M2 and upgraded to the M2C for the engine. I do not DD my M2C, it is purely a fun/weekend/track car for me. I can afford the M2CS, but for my money a C8 Corvette with the Z51 package and the MagneRide suspension will be more fun on track. I buy my cars to drive and take them on track. I have a Corvette on order and I was offered a M2CS allocation at MSRP. I passed on the M2CS. But, I will keep my M2C.
With no manual option. If you are looking for a fast car around the green hell, sure. However, what really sets this apart from the 4CS is the manual option. For car enthusiasts, this will be the deciding factor for a future collectable and desirability with 4CS performance in a shorter wheel base. I do think its priced a little too high but not terrible. Considering all of this, it will be a great buy for the future. Just my honest opinion on all of this.
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      11-24-2019, 12:14 PM   #251
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Or, hear me out on this farfetched suspicion; it was added to electronically aid in the enhancement of the vehicle's dynamics and by extension, its braking (pitch) and handling (roll)..
#MindBlown
Ah, ok. So you need to control brake pitch and roll. This is because the starting point for a dynamic suspension is a SOFTER baseline than a firm fixed M suspension. You wouldn't need so much pitch and roll control if they were just firm in the first place.

Race cars have no problem with pitch and roll because unlike street cars they run firm suspension, firm springs and firm anti-roll bars with smaller wheels and bigger sidewalls. They let the sidewall absorb imperfections and the firm suspension controls pitch and roll. This is fact. Ironically, race cars usually run on tracks where the road conditions are better than on many streets and roads we drive on.

So what happens when you have customers complain about their sports cars and sports sedans are to harsh on the street? They don't want to run smaller wheels with sidewalls because they don't look as cool. They want to run the biggest wheels with the thinnest sidewall.

Ah, brilliant you can design an intelligent strut that will change dampening on the fly by looking at speed, steering angle, pitch, roll etc. Ah, very cool. You can go slow and go over a speed bump and the active strut, coupled with a softer-to-begin-with-spring-to-allow-for-the-softer-motion goes soft and makes for a pleasant speed bump. Then when you hit the perfect race-track grade mountain road it firms up to allow a sports-car firmness. Sounds great and that is the real raison d'tetre for these street suspension. It sounds great, but people just need to understand and admit that this is what they are really for. It's for people that want to feel they have a manly sports car but don't want the harshness that can come with it.

Race cars on the other hand that run active suspensions have a single purpose...to win races but they start life firmer and with sidewalls. People are conflating the two.

What the M2 was supposed to be and the CS variant which is supposedly more hard-edged but now people want to dilute its core difference with the same electro-comfort wizardry that was the whole reason, they came out with the 1M and followed with the M2. It was supposed to be less tech, more basics. If you want an electronic suspension, get an M4. Don't ruin it for everyone else that wants something more hard-edged and pure. They already make an "executive" version of the M4.

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      11-24-2019, 12:19 PM   #252
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Any news on Canadian pricing?
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      11-24-2019, 12:35 PM   #253
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do you think it could be a daily driver ? It seems so to me ... maybe even better than the M2
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      11-24-2019, 12:53 PM   #254
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85k for a 2 series wtf....
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      11-24-2019, 12:56 PM   #255
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nachob View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Poochie View Post
Or, hear me out on this farfetched suspicion; it was added to electronically aid in the enhancement of the vehicle's dynamics and by extension, its braking (pitch) and handling (roll)..
#MindBlown
It's for people that want to feel they have a manly sports car but don't want the harshness that can come with it.
What the M2 was supposed to be and the CS variant which is supposedly more hard-edged but now people want to dilute its core difference with the same electro-comfort wizardry that was the whole reason, they came out with the 1M and followed with the M2
It's not serious bro, the M2C/M2CS weights over 3,500lbs, it's not exactly a racecar nor is it a car designed for secretaries or metrosexuals and does not it pretend or is marketed to be one, hence my sarcasm.

It operates under the guise as a 'club sport' which is a hard-core street car that is also capable of holding its own on a track.

Adaptive Suspension is a type of automotive dampers that controls the vertical movement of the wheels relative to the chassis or vehicle body with an onboard system, rather than in passive suspension where the movement is being determined entirely by the road surface.

The active system does offers a greater level of ride quality and handling of the car. It does so by keeping the tires at right angles to the road in corners which gives better traction control.

It's existence started more than two decades ago. Formula One's racing Team Lotus first employed the active suspension. Hardly a car for effeminate species.

Just like the electronic torque-vectoring LSD that makes M cars stand out about the rest, adaptive suspension adds another layer of dynamism enhancement to the vehicle.

And don't get it twisted, the only reason it was excluded in the M2/M2C is due to cost-cutting, not because M2C was made for burly, hairy-chested men, as you seem to believe.

The M2 CS just had a bigger budget to work it and BMW saw the benefits of adding electronic, variable dampers. To suggest any other reason for it's existence is just asinine.
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      11-24-2019, 01:09 PM   #256
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CanAutM3 View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by nachob View Post
Because they are targetting manly-men with this car.

Adaptive suspension is for guys or secretaries that want to run 20" wheels and for looks over performance but don't want a firm ride for their sensitive butts. I hope that helps answer your question.

Adaptive suspension isn't about comfort, it'a about improved performance. The fact that the damping is continuously adapting to the driving and road conditions multiple times per second keeps the tire better connected to the road and also improves handling response in transitions.
BMW's adaptive suspension is VERY outdated!!!

Porsche does theirs right with PASM.

Audi, Lamborghini, GM, and a few others all use MRC.
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      11-24-2019, 01:10 PM   #257
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37k vs 83k and the type r is still faster around the ring
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      11-24-2019, 01:24 PM   #258
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Originally Posted by Artemis View Post
Do you realize that the difference in size/length between the M2 CS (4-seater) and 718 Cayman GT4 (2-seater) is only 5mm (0.5cm or 0.2inch) ?
Quote:
Originally Posted by ///M2NYC15 View Post
With no manual option. If you are looking for a fast car around the green hell, sure. However, what really sets this apart from the 4CS is the manual option. For car enthusiasts, this will be the deciding factor for a future collectable and desirability with 4CS performance in a shorter wheel base. I do think its priced a little too high but not terrible. Considering all of this, it will be a great buy for the future. Just my honest opinion on all of this.
This.

I'm sure that several M2 CS buyers already have a dedicated track toy and/or supercar. This is an opportunity to purchase from new a car that combines many of the things that made BMW an enthusiast brand to begin with. I'd go as far as saying that speccing the DCT is a mistake here- there are better and faster options. With the 6MT this will be very special now and in the future.

As per my post above, the "85k for a 2 series" comments miss the point of this car. Buyers for this car (especially those choosing to spec their rare car with a clutch pedal) don't really care about the price, they just want to add an amazing car to the fleet.

I often dream about what it would have been like to order a new E46 Competition or CSL back in the day and keep it forever. I see this as the closest I can get to living out that sort of fantasy today.
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      11-24-2019, 01:35 PM   #259
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do you think it could be a daily driver ? It seems so to me ... maybe even better than the M2
Yes of course. Better , superior, I hope so...
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      11-24-2019, 02:21 PM   #260
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FrozenB7 View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Artemis View Post
Do you realize that the difference in size/length between the M2 CS (4-seater) and 718 Cayman GT4 (2-seater) is only 5mm (0.5cm or 0.2inch) ?
Quote:
Originally Posted by ///M2NYC15 View Post
With no manual option. If you are looking for a fast car around the green hell, sure. However, what really sets this apart from the 4CS is the manual option. For car enthusiasts, this will be the deciding factor for a future collectable and desirability with 4CS performance in a shorter wheel base. I do think its priced a little too high but not terrible. Considering all of this, it will be a great buy for the future. Just my honest opinion on all of this.
This.

I'm sure that several M2 CS buyers already have a dedicated track toy and/or supercar. This is an opportunity to purchase from new a car that combines many of the things that made BMW an enthusiast brand to begin with. I'd go as far as saying that speccing the DCT is a mistake here- there are better and faster options. With the 6MT this will be very special now and in the future.

As per my post above, the "85k for a 2 series" comments miss the point of this car. Buyers for this car (especially those choosing to spec their rare car with a clutch pedal) don't really care about the price, they just want to add an amazing car to the fleet.

I often dream about what it would have been like to order a new E46 Competition or CSL back in the day and keep it forever. I see this as the closest I can get to living out that sort of fantasy today.
Your comment about owning the E46 is the exact same sentiment as mine. This is about owning something that is all about the analog driving experience. Yet, with modern sensibility and safety.

I could care less about performance figures as I doubt I will use this as a track car.

Similar to why is the GT3 touring so popular, at the end of the day, it's about driver enjoyment. The M2CS is the last of its kind that somewhat harkens back to the E46 generation.
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      11-24-2019, 02:35 PM   #261
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JCZ5 View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by FrozenB7 View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Artemis View Post
Do you realize that the difference in size/length between the M2 CS (4-seater) and 718 Cayman GT4 (2-seater) is only 5mm (0.5cm or 0.2inch) ?
Quote:
Originally Posted by ///M2NYC15 View Post
With no manual option. If you are looking for a fast car around the green hell, sure. However, what really sets this apart from the 4CS is the manual option. For car enthusiasts, this will be the deciding factor for a future collectable and desirability with 4CS performance in a shorter wheel base. I do think its priced a little too high but not terrible. Considering all of this, it will be a great buy for the future. Just my honest opinion on all of this.
This.

I'm sure that several M2 CS buyers already have a dedicated track toy and/or supercar. This is an opportunity to purchase from new a car that combines many of the things that made BMW an enthusiast brand to begin with. I'd go as far as saying that speccing the DCT is a mistake here- there are better and faster options. With the 6MT this will be very special now and in the future.

As per my post above, the "85k for a 2 series" comments miss the point of this car. Buyers for this car (especially those choosing to spec their rare car with a clutch pedal) don't really care about the price, they just want to add an amazing car to the fleet.

I often dream about what it would have been like to order a new E46 Competition or CSL back in the day and keep it forever. I see this as the closest I can get to living out that sort of fantasy today.
Your comment about owning the E46 is the exact same sentiment as mine. This is about owning something that is all about the analog driving experience. Yet, with modern sensibility and safety.

I could care less about performance figures as I doubt I will use this as a track car.

Similar to why is the GT3 touring so popular, at the end of the day, it's about driver enjoyment. The M2CS is the last of its kind that somewhat harkens back to the E46 generation.
You, good sir, are talking some real sense!

I do think it's all about specific use cases. You, clearly, understand your specific use case, and respect others' preferences too.

It always blows me away when someone says, "How can you possibly buy this car over the X? You're an idiot! The X made the Kessel run in under twelve parsecs."

WTF??? I get it! Some people's use case is squeezing out every ounce of performance because they're training to win the 24 hours of Spa. Awesome. But, just because some of us want analog fun doesn't mean we're idiots for liking this car!

Enjoy in good health, sir!
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      11-24-2019, 03:00 PM   #262
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Originally Posted by TRZ06 View Post
BMW's adaptive suspension is VERY outdated!!!

Porsche does theirs right with PASM.

Audi, Lamborghini, GM, and a few others all use MRC.
As far as I know, PASM uses the same technology as BMW's EDC.

MRC has it's pros and cons. We have it on our Audi and it's not perfect.
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      11-24-2019, 03:07 PM   #263
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Do you realize that the difference in size/length between the M2 CS (4-seater) and 718 Cayman GT4 (2-seater) is only 5mm (0.5cm or 0.2inch) ?
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Originally Posted by ///M2NYC15 View Post
With no manual option. If you are looking for a fast car around the green hell, sure. However, what really sets this apart from the 4CS is the manual option. For car enthusiasts, this will be the deciding factor for a future collectable and desirability with 4CS performance in a shorter wheel base. I do think its priced a little too high but not terrible. Considering all of this, it will be a great buy for the future. Just my honest opinion on all of this.
This.

I'm sure that several M2 CS buyers already have a dedicated track toy and/or supercar. This is an opportunity to purchase from new a car that combines many of the things that made BMW an enthusiast brand to begin with. I'd go as far as saying that speccing the DCT is a mistake here- there are better and faster options. With the 6MT this will be very special now and in the future.

As per my post above, the "85k for a 2 series" comments miss the point of this car. Buyers for this car (especially those choosing to spec their rare car with a clutch pedal) don't really care about the price, they just want to add an amazing car to the fleet.

I often dream about what it would have been like to order a new E46 Competition or CSL back in the day and keep it forever. I see this as the closest I can get to living out that sort of fantasy today.
I had an '05 IB E46 ZCP M3, and while it was/is my favorite car after the F82, it wasn't earth shatteringly different than the "regular" '03 PY E46 M3 I owned prior to it. The driving experience was essentially the same, and aside from the BBS wheels, Interlagos Blue paint, brakes sourced from the CSL and the M Mode button on the steering wheel, it was the same car. There was no noticeable difference. The E46 CSL is an entirely different story however.
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      11-24-2019, 03:23 PM   #264
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Originally Posted by Sedan_Clan View Post
I had an '05 IB E46 ZCP M3, and while it was/is my favorite car after the F82, it wasn't earth shatteringly different than the "regular" '03 PY E46 M3 I owned prior to it. The driving experience was essentially the same, and aside from the BBS wheels, Interlagos Blue paint, brakes sourced from the CSL and the M Mode button on the steering wheel, it was the same car. There was no noticeable difference. The E46 CSL is an entirely different story however.
This is a very fair point. It is possible that the driving dynamics of the CS will not exceed the CP by much. However, I am buying due to exclusivity and the fact that it is the most desirable (for me) stock BMW I can buy with a manual transmission. I was disappointed to not have that option with the M4 CS/GTS.

I owned an F80 ZCP and prefer my old E60 as far as ‘big manual BMW’s’ are concerned. More of an event to drive.

The M2 is just the right size and with the manual + exclusivity it becomes a must-add for me. I can see though why someone may not want to drop the $$ to ‘upgrade’ from an M2 CP.
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