[Holmes870]

I hope everyone is doing well and staying safe.

I am having KW V3 installed on my M2C in a few weeks time.

Currently the car is set up on its winter wheels and tires. 437M's with PA4's in 255/275. (This setup was carried over from my F80 (RIP)).

Will I require spacers? Will this set up work without rubbing? I have 10mm spacers on order, but fear they will not be here in time.

After winter passes, setup will go back to 788M's and 245/265.

Please advise! And thank you.

[x233]

>> 437M's with PA4's in 255/275

It will rub. Certainly in the front. It often rubs with 245/265 and those tires.

[Holmes870]

Originally Posted by x233

>> 437M's with PA4's in 255/275

It will rub. Certainly in the front. It often rubs with 245/265 and those tires.

Thanks for your reply!

Do you know where it will rub, and under what conditions? And do you know if spacers will eliminate this?

For what it's worth, these tires are currently on the car (obviously stock suspension), and I am experiencing no rub.

[x233]

Originally Posted by Holmes870

Thanks for your reply!

Do you know where it will rub, and under what conditions? And do you know if spacers will eliminate this?

For what it's worth, these tires are currently on the car (obviously stock suspension), and I am experiencing no rub.

Front:

Mostly front of the wheel well, low speed & close to full lock, more so on the driver's side / this will happen even on the stock suspension

Sometimes front of the wheel well inside where the bumper connects to the fender, the wheels straight or slightly turned, on compression / such as when hitting a bump or a dip in the road at moderate or high speed

Rarely back of the wheel well, 2-3 o'clock, close to full lock, minimal rub

Rear:

12 o'clock, some suspension jamming, on compression / moderate to high speed jump, a dip in the road, usually when loaded

Spacers:

No. Will push the wheel further out and only make things worse. The PA4 front tire is already almost 20 mm wider than the PS4S tire. And a bit taller when new. The rear PA4 is wider/taller, too.

Ways to deal with it:

Avoid tire that's significantly wider than the summer PSS or PS4S (Michelin PA4 is a wider/taller tire)
Raise suspension (won't help the front of the well issue)
Use harder compression settings (won't help the front of the well issue)

Use heat gun to bend the plastic where it rubs (I did):

Can clear about 10 mm in the front of the front well.
May have to remove the front plastic liner, both sides, and shave off some of the plastic frame on the back side so it can be pushed further front, closer to the radiator or intercooler which are in the bumper behind those liners/frames.
Can't do much to clear the metal protrusion where the bumper meets the fender (except maybe cut some of it off, re-paint it, etc).
There are metal pieces and bolts holding the headlight in place behind one of the plastic protrusions, on both sides. Can bend those protrusions by 3-4 mm maybe. Not much more. (imagine what will happen when you hit that hard enough on compression)
Can clear about 3-4 mm at the top of the rear well.

The pictures attached are of M2C lowered on MP coilovers (25 mm in the front an 20 mm in the rear) and Michelin PA4 245/35/19 and 265/35/19 tires.

I don't think it will work with Michelin PA4 255/35/19 and 275/35/19.

Front







Behind the plastic







Rear

[Holmes870]

Wow. Thank you for the detailed response x233.

Looks like I will be holding off on the install until after winter. Most likely for the better anyway.

Is it an anomaly that I'm not experiencing any run currently?

[x233]

Originally Posted by Holmes870

Wow. Thank you for the detailed response x233.

Looks like I will be holding off on the install until after winter. Most likely for the better anyway.

Is it an anomaly that I'm not experiencing any run currently?

There appear to be some inconsistencies from car to car with how the plastic is placed. Some folks report rubbing with PA4 tires, some don't, some only notice when going with an offset different from OEM. Could be some folks don't really mind or pay attention. With 255/35/19 PA4 in the front it seems unlikely that it wouldn't rub.

[Holmes870]

Originally Posted by x233

There appear to be some inconsistencies from car to car with how the plastic is placed. Some folks report rubbing with PA4 tires, some don't, some only notice when going with an offset different from OEM. Could be some folks don't really mind or pay attention. With 255/35/19 PA4 in the front it seems unlikely that it wouldn't rub.

I appreciate your replies and first hand knowledge.

I had a moment today to check the areas highlighted in your photos for rubbing. There is none, with roughly 1200km on this set up.

What I find more interesting, is at full lock I still have approximately 10mm of clearance from the forward-most area of the tire to the fender liner.

Could the variance in fender liners be that great?

[x233]

Originally Posted by Holmes870

approximately 10mm of clearance from the forward-most area of the tire to the fender liner

Wow. That would be a lot of variance.

Just to confirm, is it M2C or OG M2 we are talking about?

Because there are differences between how things are packed in them. They have different part numbers for those plastic liners, too. Mine is M2C and these have less clearance.

[Holmes870]

Originally Posted by x233

Wow. That would be a lot of variance.

Just to confirm, is it M2C or OG M2 we are talking about?

Because there are differences between how things are packed in them. They have different part numbers for those plastic liners, too. Mine is M2C and these have less clearance.

It's a 2020 M2C. Even more surprising, huh?

As a side note, and this may be of importance or relevance:

On Christmas I took some time to install painted reflectors. While the install instructions claimed I needed to remove three threaded bolts to access the reflector BEHIND the fender liner, this wasn't the case. I had full access to the reflector without moving, or unbolting the liner.

[detroitm2]

I have an OG M2, so this may or may not be helpful.

I'm running KW V3s. My wheels are 19x9.5 ET35 (effective offset is ET23), with 12mm spacers on the front. Tires are 265/35r19 Blizzaks. I have camber plates set to about 2.8 degrees negative camber.

Mine only rub at full lock.

You'll have to do some math to see how that works out in your situation. The OEM wheels are 19x9 instead of 9.5, and your tires are 10mm narrower. Additionally, if you're not running camber plates, there could be other issues.

Hope this helps.

[x233]

Originally Posted by Holmes870

It's a 2020 M2C. Even more surprising, huh?

As a side note, and this may be of importance or relevance:

On Christmas I took some time to install painted reflectors. While the install instructions claimed I needed to remove three threaded bolts to access the reflector BEHIND the fender liner, this wasn't the case. I had full access to the reflector without moving, or unbolting the liner.

Sounds like this may go beyond "normal" variance. I checked the part numbers for our cars, the plastic liners *seem* to be the same but I am not so sure now.

My car left the factory in early June 2019. It's not a NA market.

I wonder if perhaps they fixed the clearance issues sometime later on. Could be the part numbers for the parts remained the same but the actual parts were modified. Just guessing here.

Or, perhaps it has to do with the market the car is intended for. Cars produced for where I live do not have reflectors in the front bumper but if they did... I looked at it and I don't think I'd be able to have access to them, if the car had them, without removing the plastic liners.

One way or another, I am now inclined to think those parts are actually different in our cars.

The clearance issues were reported on this forum and elsewhere. I wonder if they tend to happen in cars produced for certain markets (although I am pretty sure they were reported for NA cars) and/or cars produced within a certain time frame.

As a side note, I recently had a chance to compare my car to one purchased in Germany, both are supposedly for the European market produced at about the same time... my car does not have an OPF filter, the German one does. The RealOEM would have one believe I had it, which is not the case.

[Holmes870]

@x233 I had my spacers show up today, and threw them on the car mostly for shits and giggles. In the back of my mind I knew I was pushing my luck.

Took it out for a spin after, with the intention of making the tires rub.

Still no rub.

[x233]

Originally Posted by Holmes870

@x233 I had my spacers show up today, and threw them on the car mostly for shits and giggles. In the back of my mind I knew I was pushing my luck.

Took it out for a spin after, with the intention of making the tires rub.

Still no rub.

OK, I envy you ))

[Holmes870]

Originally Posted by x233

OK, I envy you ))

I figured I'd give you an update. Not intended to rub any salt.

Excuse the mess of a car. The roads here have been terrible. Although, it makes for fun driving.

PA4's
255/275
10mm spacers
KW V3

VERY minimal rubbing on inner wheel liner at low speed @ 3/4 lock. I haven't experienced any rubbing otherwise.

Quite happy with this set up.

[f87.lci]

Holmes870 how much are you lowered from stock height?

[M Fifty]

Originally Posted by Holmes870

I hope everyone is doing well and staying safe.

I am having KW V3 installed on my M2C in a few weeks time.

Currently the car is set up on its winter wheels and tires. 437M's with PA4's in 255/275. (This setup was carried over from my F80 (RIP)).

Will I require spacers? Will this set up work without rubbing? I have 10mm spacers on order, but fear they will not be here in time.

After winter passes, setup will go back to 788M's and 245/265.

Please advise! And thank you.

What profile?

The KW V3s are the same as the MPS, so the only reason to get rubbing with those and 437 wheels is if the tyres are mahoosively bigger than stock.