[kthor703]

OP, what aspects about engine Temps led you to believe they were overheating? 100F is serious heat. Most I've tracked in is 90F ambient and the car felt pretty stable and consistent to me.

I don't have any data readouts yet, but I'm under the impression that temps seem to be well controlled.

Looking forward to the build!

[Megator]

Originally Posted by OG Shark

Testing in stock trim is now complete & we have good baselines to work off of. Everything on the M2C was stock and to oem specifications except for the Essex/AP brakes, Ferodo 1.11, and Castrol SRF. Tires were oem spec MP4S as well.


Circuit of the Americas
Best Lap: 2:36.38
Conditions: Sunny, 84*F
Weight:
HP:

Impressions: Going in I was cautiously optimistic of getting into the mid 30's in stock trim so was very happy to see we were on target. The car is very nimble and user friendly even despite the shortcomings of the oem suspension and alignment. Had the expected not enough front grip on entry and not enough rear on exit but could still be managed well enough. High speed dampening was ok - not great but not terrible either. Turbo lag took a bit getting used to being primarily used to tracking a S65. Heat management was a mixed bag. On one hand I was pleased that it handled the heat as well as it did - definitely an improvement vs oem cooling on E9x M3s. Typically required only one cool down lap during the middle of a session in order to get engine and DCT temps back to being happy. The DCT would noticeably start lagging and the shifts would become sloppy. On the other hand though the cooling components will need to be upgraded in order to maintain pace throughout a full session - especially as the car gets quicker. When we switched out to slicks after establishing the stock baseline I would have to run a cool down lap at least twice during a session. The ambient was pushing 100*F by that time but that is something we definitely have to contend with and factor in here in Texas. Seats - the competition seats are awful on the track. Not being able to easily run Schroth QFP is definitely a negative. The angle of the headrest makes for a pretty angry neck by the end of the day as well.


Harris Hill Raceway
Best Lap: 1:27.38
Conditions: Sunny, 92*
Weight:
HP:

Impressions: Harris Hill Raceway (San Marcos, TX) is my local track - we do a lot of testing out there. The best lap was in line with expectations here as well. The car performed pretty much the same as it did at COTA except for one major area - high speed dampening. Despite being repaved early last year HH still has some bumpy areas. The oem high speed dampening in particular was not up to task here. This track is not as hard on a car as COTA but still experienced some heat issues with the DCT.


Overall
All in all I was very pleased with the car in stock trim. I was hoping the oem cooling system would be able to keep up for a full session but not surprised it wasn't able to (especially at COTA). Such a fun car to drive even when it doesn't want to turn or give you anything close to decent grip on the exit Still it definitely punches above its weight class and should be a great platform to build off of.


Next Step: The build finally begins - Suspension & Wheels/Tires! Back to Harris Hill for testing of the new suspension - both with the oem spec MP4S and also with the new wheel/tire setup. Also going to the dyno to see where the power level is at and putting the car on the scales.

Sneak peak of the new wheels & tires...

Interesting that you had heat issues as the M2C is pretty robust in that regard. Well here at least but we rarely get days over 35C.

If you have the cash to splash BMW offer "Enduro" version of some of the cooling packs for 24h racing.

https://www.apmotorsport.co.uk/produ...ion-oil-cooler

https://www.realoem.com/bmw/enUS/sho...diagId=17_1204

[Flint Rockbone]

I'm excited to watch this build as I'm interested in building something along these same lines. Can't wait to see the progress.

[Talx]

Originally Posted by OG Shark

Proposed Build Specs

Interior
Cobra Nogaro seats
Brey Krause seat mounts
Safecraft harnesses
OG Shark Motorsport half cage
OG Shark Motorsport rear seat delete kit
M2CS Alcantara steering wheel
3D Design aluminum shift paddles
Various iND alcantara & carbon fiber bits

Exterior
M2CS carbon fiber trunk spoiler
iND HS front reflector set
Acexxon rear reflector insert
CS front lip
DTM rear diffuser
RKP carbon fiber roof

Suspension
OG Shark Motorsport / Inertia Lab spec Nitron setups
MKR bearings

Wheels & Tires
Signature Wheel SV601 - 18" x 10"/11" stagger
Signature Wheel SV603 - 18" x 10"/11" stagger
Signature Wheel SV501 - 18" x 9.5"/10.5" stagger
Yokohama Advan A052
Pirelli DH

Brakes
Essex / AP Racing Radi-cal 9668 front
Essex / AP Racing Radi-cal 9451 rear
Ferodo DS2500 (street)
Ferodo DS1.11 (track)
Castrol SRF

Engine & Cooling
Wagner intercooler
Wagner front radiator
Wagner side radiator
Mishimoto DCT cooler
Flex fuel tuned by Bend Calibration via Ecutek

Originally Posted by OG Shark

Proposed Build Specs


Suspension
OG Shark Motorsport / Inertia Lab spec Nitron setups
MKR bearings

You mention MKR bearings, you changed your bearings? Where, what, why?

Also I didn't find the cooling to be a problem in 90f temperature keeping an eye out on oil, water and DCT fo 15-20 minutes sessions, maybe the longer ones are a problem

[OG Shark]

Originally Posted by Wolfman’s Brother

Love everything about this thread. Keep going!

And thanks for the content.

Thanks! Just getting started with this car so a lot more to come!

Originally Posted by Dr.Mark

This thread is great. I can't wait to see where it goes. I have a 21 HS M2C that I took to the track for the first time last weekend. I have M performance suspension and Apex staggered wheels with Bridgestone Potenza Sport tires 265/295 to start. Vorshlag camber plates and Porterfield track pads.
The car performed well. It was only in the 60's at the track so cooling was not an issue at all during 25min sessions.

Appreciate it! One of the tire staggers I will be trying on this car is 265/295 as well (A052s). Would love more tire in the front to better manage heat but at times it really just take what you can get with this platform. 60's would be magical here - we were still pushing 90 this weekend And congrats on having excellent taste in colors

Originally Posted by Flint Rockbone

I'm excited to watch this build as I'm interested in building something along these same lines. Can't wait to see the progress.

Awesome - think this is a excellent platform for this type of build. Not only fast but also an absolute joy to drive.

[OG Shark]

Originally Posted by ihbase

"I was hoping the oem cooling system would be able to keep up for a full session but not surprised it wasn't able to (especially at COTA)."

How are you thinking about addressing the cooling? Do you think it is an airflow issue, a cooling system capacity issue, or both?

Thanks for all the information.

-Michael

Originally Posted by kthor703

OP, what aspects about engine Temps led you to believe they were overheating? 100F is serious heat. Most I've tracked in is 90F ambient and the car felt pretty stable and consistent to me.

I don't have any data readouts yet, but I'm under the impression that temps seem to be well controlled.

Looking forward to the build!

Originally Posted by Megator

Interesting that you had heat issues as the M2C is pretty robust in that regard. Well here at least but we rarely get days over 35C.

If you have the cash to splash BMW offer "Enduro" version of some of the cooling packs for 24h racing.

https://www.apmotorsport.co.uk/produ...ion-oil-cooler

https://www.realoem.com/bmw/enUS/sho...diagId=17_1204

Heat management... definitely the thing I have been asked about most so far.

First just want to make it clear that despite having to do cool down laps mid session I was still very impressed with the stock cooling on the M2C. For those that haven't tracked at COTA before - it can be very hard on cars - heat management, brakes, etc. Add the high ambient temps we had that weekend and I definitely wasn't surprised to see elevated temps. I was hoping that in my baseline runs on MP4S that a full session at full pace would be feasible - but certainly not disappointed when that wasn't the case for me. One note on the pace we were able to get that setup to as well - definitely wringing the car out to get there. Been fortunate to have run a few hundred laps out there between racing/hdpe/private days so I feel pretty comfortable running as close to 10/10ths as I am willing to do in that kind of situation. About halfway through the baseline run I got the high temp warning and the car noticeably pulled power. The DCT was also getting pretty sloppy at that point. One cool down lap & she was happy again and we were back to full pace.

I have no issue with having to do a cool down lap in this kind of situation. Its hot, we are running hard, and the tires could also definitely benefit from backing down for a bit. But with this car one of our goals is to be able to push hard for a full session without needing to back off. Track time is precious & I want the option to be able to go full bore as much as I want to without the car being a limiting factor. Also considering this will be the slowest state the car will be in moving forward I would definitely anticipate heat becoming a bigger issue. When we were on slicks during the afternoon I was having to back off at least a couple of times during the sessions. And since we are still a decent ways off from our time goal it definitely makes sense for us to address it moving forward.

So cooling - definitely a case by case scenario. Absolutely depends on track characteristics, ambient temps, setups, etc. Definitely do not want to come across as saying the oem setup is deficient. On my other home track the engine temps were kept in check on our baseline run (although the dct still got a bit warm). Definitely do not want to change it if it is still keeping up (my recommendation to my customers - definitely do not throw money at something like this until it is needed.). But in this case seeing that the car will run COTA quite a bit and we have to deal with the Texas heat pretty often we are at the point where the oem system can't quite keep up.

As far as what we are going with - Wagner for the radiators and a Mishimoto DCT cooler. As part of the last stage of the build (power) we will also be installing a Wagner intercooler as well.

[OG Shark]

Originally Posted by Talx

You mention MKR bearings, you changed your bearings? Where, what, why?

Also I didn't find the cooling to be a problem in 90f temperature keeping an eye out on oil, water and DCT fo 15-20 minutes sessions, maybe the longer ones are a problem

Going with their uniball bearings front & rear. Might be a bit much for a car that sees street time but that is a big part of what we are testing for.

[OG Shark]

Suspension!!!

We are working with Inertia Laboratory on putting the suspension setups together for the F87. Spring rates & lengths, valving, settings - get everything dialed in as best as possible for their intended application. First up is the Nitron R1 kit. Nitron has a track record of excellent performance and durability - exactly what we are looking for on our cars. The R1 kit consists of a single adjustment shock combined with Nitron's springs and camber plates.



We are going with a one-way kit first since our priority with the build is to attain our goals in the simplest way we can. With a single adjustment unit being about as user friendly as you can get we felt it definitely needed to be tested first on our build. Going to be testing spring rates as well as lengths (wider tire clearance) both on the track and the street. Figure out which setup gives us the best mix of track and street manners. Will also consider the valving throughout the process. One of the big benefits in working with Inertia Laboratory is their resources & knowledge that will be a huge help working through everything.



The setup will be installed later this week after we clear out a couple of other projects first. The MKR monoball bearings will not be installed until after we have some time with the Nitrons first so that we can gauge their individual benefits and/or drawbacks. Hoping to be able to start testing at the end of the week.

[FaRKle!]

It would be great to see the design priorities and considerations when picking your spring rates and damper curves!

[MSPORTWORLD]

Great job in on the build! I can't wait to check it out the next time I'm in Texas!

Happy Halloween!

[OG Shark]

Originally Posted by MSPORTWORLD

Great job in on the build! I can't wait to check it out the next time I'm in Texas!

Happy Halloween!

Next time your back we should be a decent ways into testing the suspension. Just took delivery of our new tube bender & miller/notcher so should also have the half cage in and interior finished out (hopefully). If you are here for a bit definitely need to try to make it out to H2R again.

Beautiful car! By far the best color Pretty sure you have two of the nicest E92 M3s out there. We got the supercharger installed on my E90 and took it out for the first test run yesterday!

[OG Shark]

We installed the Nitron R1 kit last week. Installation was very straightforward being a direct replacement, single adjustment system. Everything needed is included in the kit - including the camber plates. We set the ride height where we wanted and immediately started the most important testing - street comfort. I'm getting a bit softer as I get older and my tolerance for poor street characteristics is exponentially getting lower. After putting it through its paces on a mix of highway & some less than stellar roads it is apparent that we started out a bit too ambitious with the the spring rates. Although I think we would be happy with these rates on the track it is apparent we need to dial them back a bit to obtain our street goals. Happy with the length though - plenty of wheel/tire clearance (wanted to make sure we provided the necessary room to run the wider wheel/tire setups). When the new springs are on will recheck street compliance and once satisfied there will head back out to the track.


On a side note we had the weekend of Dec 4 & 5 open up so we are going to head to Eagles Canyon in Decatur, TX and run the M2C in NASA time trials. Going to be far from optimized for whichever class we land in being basically a mildly prepped street car - but still ought to be a lot of fun. Will be running the car pretty much as it sits right now but with a 275/295 Hoosier A7/R7 stagger. Only other change I would anticipate is the installation of the Cobra Nogaro's and our half cage - we finally took delivery of our new automated tube bender & miller style notcher last week

[Anonymoose]

Originally Posted by OG Shark

We installed the Nitron R1 kit last week. Installation was very straightforward being a direct replacement, single adjustment system. Everything needed is included in the kit - including the camber plates. We set the ride height where we wanted and immediately started the most important testing - street comfort. I'm getting a bit softer as I get older and my tolerance for poor street characteristics is exponentially getting lower. After putting it through its paces on a mix of highway & some less than stellar roads it is apparent that we started out a bit too ambitious with the the spring rates. Although I think we would be happy with these rates on the track it is apparent we need to dial them back a bit to obtain our street goals. Happy with the length though - plenty of wheel/tire clearance (wanted to make sure we provided the necessary room to run the wider wheel/tire setups). When the new springs are on will recheck street compliance and once satisfied there will head back out to the track.


On a side note we had the weekend of Dec 4 & 5 open up so we are going to head to Eagles Canyon in Decatur, TX and run the M2C in NASA time trials. Going to be far from optimized for whichever class we land in being basically a mildly prepped street car - but still ought to be a lot of fun. Will be running the car pretty much as it sits right now but with a 275/295 Hoosier A7/R7 stagger. Only other change I would anticipate is the installation of the Cobra Nogaro's and our half cage - we finally took delivery of our new automated tube bender & miller style notcher last week

I'm jelly! Took mine out this past weekend and had a blast. I thought I was done for the season but I found another hpde day in Dec.

[slicer]

Looks amazing!

[inTgr8r]

Great progress!!!
I'm curious if you ran into any of the rear strut clearance issues with Nitron that have been discussed previously with MCS installations?

[OG Shark]

Originally Posted by inTgr8r

Great progress!!!
I'm curious if you ran into any of the rear strut clearance issues with Nitron that have been discussed previously with MCS installations?

Thanks! No clearance issues of any kind with the Nitrons.

[Robbyjai]

Originally Posted by OG Shark

TOne of the tire staggers I will be trying on this car is 265/295 as well (A052s). Would love more tire in the front to better manage heat but at times it really just take what you can get with this platform.

I run this stagger and its great. heap of grip and can really fling it around corners and it holds on and clings on like poo to a blanket...

[6speed_M2]

What kind of power is it putting down with the bend calibration tune?

Ethanol mix or full tank?

[OG Shark]

Originally Posted by 6speed_M2

What kind of power is it putting down with the bend calibration tune?

Ethanol mix or full tank?

We haven't touched anything power related yet including tuning - with this car we have been focusing on suspension to this point and haven't really had time yet to get to the power. Also still waiting on the rest of the coolers to show up so that we can install everything at one time. Should be pretty soon though - likely after we get back from the time trials we are running the first week of Dec. Will post before & after numbers once everything is in. Will be able to support full E85.

[OG Shark]

Finishing up the prep for the NASA time trials at Eagles Canyon this weekend. Have to submit a dyno run for classing & needed a stock baseline anyways so went ahead and got that done today. 390 hp & between 408 - 415 tq - pretty much in line with what we have seen. With our running weight & adjusted hp/wt ratio that classes us nicely into TT3. So were pretty much going to run a stock car with upgraded brakes and dampers this weekend - ought to be a riot

And on the subject of the suspension - after deliberation with Chris at Inertia Laboratory the decision was made to first try revalving the Nitron’s since we weren’t quite satisfied with how they rode. He knocked them out quickly and we should have had them back with plenty of time to install and test before this weekend... but they have been in the FedEx black hole for over a week know. Finally got them this afternoon and going on the car in the morning. Very excited to see how these do this weekend.

[M1500Z]

Originally Posted by OG Shark

Finishing up the prep for the NASA time trials at Eagles Canyon this weekend. Have to submit a dyno run for classing & needed a stock baseline anyways so went ahead and got that done today. 390 hp & between 408 - 415 tq - pretty much in line with what we have seen. With our running weight & adjusted hp/wt ratio that classes us nicely into TT3. So were pretty much going to run a stock car with upgraded brakes and dampers this weekend - ought to be a riot

And on the subject of the suspension - after deliberation with Chris at Inertia Laboratory the decision was made to first try revalving the Nitron’s since we weren’t quite satisfied with how they rode. He knocked them out quickly and we should have had them back with plenty of time to install and test before this weekend... but they have been in the FedEx black hole for over a week know. Finally got them this afternoon and going on the car in the morning. Very excited to see how these do this weekend.

I'm not sure who all is in that class, might see if I can dig up a list to see if I know anyone who you'll be up against. Should be a lot of fun though.

I meant to post previously, but was going to say that it didn't look like the spring rates you've got there are too extreme and was wondering if a revalve might be better first, or maybe (just maybe) trying a tender spring. I have never driven a car running tender springs but have read they can make things a little vague initially as you overcome the tender rate and transition to the main rate, but maybe it would be worth it ¯\_(ツ)_/¯.* Cool stuff though and looking forward to seeing how you get the setup working.

*I am a suspension basic

[OG Shark]

Originally Posted by M1500Z

I'm not sure who all is in that class, might see if I can dig up a list to see if I know anyone who you'll be up against. Should be a lot of fun though.

I meant to post previously, but was going to say that it didn't look like the spring rates you've got there are [I]too[/] extreme and was wondering if a revalve might be better first, or maybe (just maybe) trying a tender spring. I have never driven a car running tender springs but have read they can make things a little vague initially as you overcome the tender rate and transition to the main rate, but maybe it would be worth it ¯\_(ツ)_/¯.* Cool stuff though and looking forward to seeing how you get the setup working.

*I am a suspension basic

Will be interesting to see how we fare with the M2. New track & not very far removed from oem so not really sure what to expect. But like you said should be a lot of fun.

Initially was leaning towards springs but after getting to drive the car a little bit more I started leaning towards the dampening being the biggest issue - more in rebound but bump also being a bit too stiff. Once the graphs were received it confirmed that revalving was the best way to proceed first. Did not want to go softer on the springs if we didn't have to so hopefully this gets us where we want to be