[mchart]

Originally Posted by mfarrzhp

I think this is a common theme for people that have not driven both cars. It's a lot more than carbon bits that separate the M2C and the CS. It all comes together for a much different driving experience than the M2C; the youtube reviewers aren't making it up.

Much better Wheels/Tires - $5-6K
Structural carbon roof and carbon hood
M4 seats - way nicer than the M2C
Alcantara and carbon tunnel - $$$ and makes the interior look much better
Remapped tune/power by BMW M division
Adaptive suspension
Yes, more CF with the front splitter and rear diffuser
Of course, exclusivity
M Drivers Pkg standard - Normally $2500

Could you make a CS clone out of an M2C for $25K? It would be a tight budget unless you perform your own labor. At the end of the day, you'd have a $60K CS wannabe with no warranty.

Yes, the CS is marketed as the halo BMW track car, but outside a couple dozen people on this forum, BMW knows most of our cars won't see 2 days on a racetrack.

Disclaimer: I'm not hating on the M2C, it's a lot of car for the money. My only issue is the constant comparison with the CS and people not realizing the extent of the driving and aesthetic difference inside and out. Looks like the M5 CS is getting killer reviews and you see the same argument against the M5C.

To expand on these figures, the hood alone, unpainted, is $8500. The roof alone, without how much time/money it takes to install it on a M2C (If you even could since the M2C doesn't have the cutouts), is at least $3000+. You simply can't retrofit the adaptive suspension on the M2C unless you spent hundreds of man-hours and thousands extra hacking the computer to allow it. So you'll be going with a set of coil-overs here. Again, the engine tune isn't an option since a year ago, so figure another $8-$12k for a stand alone ECU for the engine, and you'll loose a lot of daily-driver friendly experience doing this.

You will quickly eclipse the $25k differential, and all you have now is a heavily modified M2C that no one will pay a dime over normal M2C prices for.

[ScullyD]

Originally Posted by TheStanman

Also, CS cars are clearly far more than the sum of their parts.

Anyone else feel like that's what M used to offer? It sucks that they've reserved that for more expensive, limited productions models.

I think this is a misperception also, although maybe the base M models were more focused then the base M models are now.

But there was an e30 M3 Evo, an e36 M3 Lightweight and e36 M3 GT. Then E46 Comp/CS and CSL, e92 M3 GTS and e90 M3 CRT.

BMW M has always asked you to pay a larger sum of money for their best experience of each car. In some ways, the new CS in the F80/F82, F87, and F90 has given you a middle ground to a full CSL experience at a reduced cost. You could argue they are good value for money, though the majority of BMW owners on bimmerpost seem to argue the opposite.

[MadBimmeRad]

Originally Posted by Mr Pete

The extra $25k+ I would spend towards the CS, I decided I'll just use that towards the purchase of my dream car, 992 GT3 Touring.

My wife thinks I'm an idiot, but that's 98% of the time anyways

.

I think your wife might be on to something here

Originally Posted by ScullyD

Can't wait for the debate on how the new M4 CSL isn't much different than an M4 Comp. Meanwhile, based on BMWs track record, my deposit is already in.

ditto on the deposit

[bogdiniciu]

Not trying to put down the CS, if I would have the money I would buy it, but I think there is a middle ground perspective that many people miss in the debate of C vs CS, and that is "I don't want to mimic a CS just improve my C" and that is why many believe the C is such a great bang-for-your-buck.

I am in that boat. I don't need CF hood or roof. All I really need is the engine tune and the wheels/tires. And that gets you very very close to the CS. So if you don't care for the status or the other minor changes, the C makes a lot of sense compared to the CS.

[S65V8]

Originally Posted by mfarrzhp

I think this is a common theme for people that have not driven both cars. It's a lot more than carbon bits that separate the M2C and the CS. It all comes together for a much different driving experience than the M2C; the youtube reviewers aren't making it up.

Much better Wheels/Tires - $5-6K
Structural carbon roof and carbon hood
M4 seats - way nicer than the M2C
Alcantara and carbon tunnel - $$$ and makes the interior look much better
Remapped tune/power by BMW M division
Adaptive suspension
Yes, more CF with the front splitter and rear diffuser
Of course, exclusivity
M Drivers Pkg standard - Normally $2500

Could you make a CS clone out of an M2C for $25K? It would be a tight budget unless you perform your own labor. At the end of the day, you'd have a $60K CS wannabe with no warranty.

Yes, the CS is marketed as the halo BMW track car, but outside a couple dozen people on this forum, BMW knows most of our cars won't see 2 days on a racetrack.

Disclaimer: I'm not hating on the M2C, it's a lot of car for the money. My only issue is the constant comparison with the CS and people not realizing the extent of the driving and aesthetic difference inside and out. Looks like the M5 CS is getting killer reviews and you see the same argument against the M5C.

All good points, and it is subjective and nuanced what one person thinks is worth it. I've driven both, just do not believe in the aesthetic carbon fiber bits that add up to thousands $$ that do not ultimately add to weight reduction. The performance tuning and suspension can all be made close or better and doesn't need to be a CS wannabe per se either.

The comparison is only made to M2C because many thought BMW should have at least dropped the weight with all that CF and did something more special to the engine and suspension for the premium (ala M4 GTS engine maybe or between a GT4 and standard Cayman etc).

Disclaimer: I am not hating on the M2CS, no question the M2CS is a fine car if you personally love the formula + exclusivity that BMW is offering, but whether one thinks it is worth the entrance fee is still subjective- just like any car.

[mfarrzhp]

Originally Posted by S65V8

All good points, and it is subjective and nuanced what one person thinks is worth it. I've driven both, just do not believe in the aesthetic carbon fiber bits that add up to thousands $$ that do not ultimately add to weight reduction. The performance tuning and suspension can all be made close or better and doesn't need to be a CS wannabe per se either.

The comparison is only made to M2C because many thought BMW should have at least dropped the weight with all that CF and did something more special to the engine and suspension for the premium (ala M4 GTS engine maybe or between a GT4 and standard Cayman etc).

Disclaimer: I am not hating on the M2CS, no question the M2CS is a fine car if you personally love the formula + exclusivity that BMW is offering, but whether one thinks it is worth the entrance fee is still subjective- just like any car.

No doubt, you can make a lighter, faster M2C for less than $85K. I have no interest in that.

I can appreciate that some people would rather have a 500HP M2C with coilovers and aftermarket wheels. I've been there, done that with other cars. My Dinan S3 135i on PSS10s, camber plates, Brembo BBK, LSD, and VMRs was a lot of fun. It was also a lot of maintenance.

Luckily, BMW gives us a wide array of choices.

[robopp]

Originally Posted by mfarrzhp

No doubt, you can make a lighter, faster M2C for less than $85K. I have no interest in that.

I can appreciate that some people would rather have a 500HP M2C with coilovers and aftermarket wheels. I've been there, done that with other cars. My Dinan S3 135i on PSS10s, camber plates, Brembo BBK, LSD, and VMRs was a lot of fun. It was also a lot of maintenance.

Luckily, BMW gives us a wide array of choices.

You'll be able to tune the M2C with the CS tune in very short time. ECU has already been cracked.

[ChiTownM]

The M2CS interior is way nicer than all other M2s and is also a factor why I finally bought an M2. Always liked the M2 since it came out but it just felt cheap inside for a 60K car. I was gaging the market to eventually get a used manual one but the CS package and MB color plus CF bits and tuned engine as well as adaptive suspension made it right at 85K …. For me personally. The weight doesn't matter to me, it pulls strong all the way to redline regardless.

Every M car has its plus and cons, and I enjoy the ones I own and still remember the fun I had with the ones I sold, starting with the e36.

I have seen some stupid aka great ($$$$) M2 builds on the track which will most likely be faster, but that's not what I wanted to own or do myself.

Enjoy the M2 since now you cannot buy them anymore anyways.

[FrozenGT]

I purchased my 2020 M2C before the CS was available. I added $7K in BMW M parts including the MPERFORMANCE Suspension. I drove on the stock suspension for a good 500miles before the MPERFORMANCE suspension was installed. My thoughts are to me the comp looks better and is cleaner looking. I don't like the 763m wheels and I don't like the vent in the Hood. I feel that these modifications look better on the M4. However I love the tune on the CS and I love the interior pieces outside of the seats that I feel are too big for the car.

I do know that the CS has come with Michelin CUP2 tires. Which are BMW tuned to work with the adaptive suspension.

The competition has a static suspension that's tune to work with the pilot super sports which are outdated.

I strongly feel that if you were to take the competition and the CS and put the exact same tires and wheels.

They would have similar grip levels-

I can tell you that the MPERFORMANCE suspension is an expensive upgrade but completely transform the way the car feels and handles.

I have yet to see a review with MPperformance M2C vs M2CS around the track. I personally feel that a track vehicle should have a three way adjustable Colover suspension and not an adaptable suspension. For what the CS cost they should've worked with KW to do a version of the ClubSport for the CS.

I get tons of compliments and everyone loves how my competition looks and how it's modified and it does everything that I needed to do. I pushed my car very hard for the first time and I could not break traction no matter how hard I tried. The only thing that was holding my car back was the tires but the guy in front of me was on the stock suspension and his backend was all over the place.

I think both the M2 competition and M2 CS are both great cars if you're going to mod get the M2 competition… if you're gonna leave the car stock meaning nothing added get the CS.

[stefan]

Originally Posted by medphysdave

Some folks by far less home than they can "afford". Do people get this much crap for buying boats?

No they do not, nor do they get it for buying F250s and Longhorn Rams.

Originally Posted by FrozenGT

I can tell you that the MPERFORMANCE suspension is an expensive upgrade but completely transform the way the car feels and handles.

Totally agree with your post but my struggle with M Perf suspension is the overall lowering required to get it into the sweet spot and the fact it doesn't integrate with central controls. That to me is the biggest draw of the CS is the cohesiveness of the package. It's definitive in that sense. FWIW I really do not like the stock suspension, I just don't want to lower the car or have dongles lying around.

[jessief29812]

Originally Posted by FrozenGT

I purchased my 2020 M2C before the CS was available. I added $7K in BMW M parts including the MPERFORMANCE Suspension. I drove on the stock suspension for a good 500miles before the MPERFORMANCE suspension was installed. My thoughts are to me the comp looks better and is cleaner looking. I don't like the 763m wheels and I don't like the vent in the Hood. I feel that these modifications look better on the M4. However I love the tune on the CS and I love the interior pieces outside of the seats that I feel are too big for the car.

I do know that the CS has come with Michelin CUP2 tires. Which are BMW tuned to work with the adaptive suspension.

The competition has a static suspension that's tune to work with the pilot super sports which are outdated.

I strongly feel that if you were to take the competition and the CS and put the exact same tires and wheels.

They would have similar grip levels-

I can tell you that the MPERFORMANCE suspension is an expensive upgrade but completely transform the way the car feels and handles.

I have yet to see a review with MPperformance M2C vs M2CS around the track. I personally feel that a track vehicle should have a three way adjustable Colover suspension and not an adaptable suspension. For what the CS cost they should've worked with KW to do a version of the ClubSport for the CS.

I get tons of compliments and everyone loves how my competition looks and how it's modified and it does everything that I needed to do. I pushed my car very hard for the first time and I could not break traction no matter how hard I tried. The only thing that was holding my car back was the tires but the guy in front of me was on the stock suspension and his backend was all over the place.

I think both the M2 competition and M2 CS are both great cars if you're going to mod get the M2 competition… if you're gonna leave the car stock meaning nothing added to the vehicle get them to CS

763 wheels are amazing…. They transform the wheels… slap some gold 763s on your m2c and you will not be disappointed and will get compliments over your current setup.

[FrozenGT]

Yes! I've seen the gold version and I just don't have that old-school classic feel that I'm looking for. I'm actually looking at a set of BBS gold LM1 wheels.

[Debtm3]

Originally Posted by Mr Pete

I think the CS is a fantastic car, better than my M2C. My opinion, I still think it's a tuned up version of the M2C, but from the factory with a warranty. Not hating on it, as I considered getting one, but moreso for the 'exclusivity' due to the limited numbers.

The extra $25k+ I would spend towards the CS, I decided I'll just use that towards the purchase of my dream car, 992 GT3 Touring. My wife thinks I'm an idiot, but that's 98% of the time anyways.

Haters keep on hating….. I own the cs and a 992 turbo s and have a gt3 coming in oct … the hardest Decision I have to make now is should I keep the turbo S or the M2
Yeah that’s how good the cs is …….

[Mr Pete]

Originally Posted by Debtm3

Haters keep on hating….. I own the cs and a 992 turbo s and have a gt3 coming in oct … the hardest Decision I have to make now is should I keep the turbo S or the M2
Yeah that’s how good the cs is …….

Do you read? I am not hating on it. Stop trying to create something out of nothing FFS

[robopp]

Originally Posted by Debtm3

Haters keep on hating….. I own the cs and a 992 turbo s and have a gt3 coming in oct … the hardest Decision I have to make now is should I keep the turbo S or the M2
Yeah that’s how good the cs is …….

Lol, only way someone is even entertaining that thought is because of finances.

[IB M]

I thought hard about buying a M2 CS when they were available briefly but I ended up deciding on a different car. Now even if I want one I think that ship has sailed as the average USED price is $100k

Congrats to all you guys who were lucky enough to get one at MSRP.

[ChiTownM]

Originally Posted by Debtm3

Haters keep on hating….. I own the cs and a 992 turbo s and have a gt3 coming in oct … the hardest Decision I have to make now is should I keep the turbo S or the M2
Yeah that's how good the cs is …….

I agree with you…… I may also be able to get a GT3 in the future post ADM and already know I will not sell the CS, but install a lift instead

[adc]

The M2CS makes a huge amount of sense as a street car. The adaptive suspension makes it far more versatile than the M2C, IMO at least.

It makes no sense as the basis for a track car. The suspension would be the first thing to be thrown out, also the wheels, BBK out front, and likely a stage 1 engine tune would come in anyway at some point. What’s more, the CF hood becomes a liability on track with all the debris thrown in and the possibility of a shunt. You’d need 2 layers of the thickest PPF to protect it.

And it still would not be any faster or more fun than any other modified M2 or M3/4.

But as a fun street car, weekend getaway, yes please. Just perfect. And far better at that role than a GT4.

[ASAP]

I think a lot of people miss the difference between "wanted" parts and what actually comes on a CS vs the C... I love the CS, I just don't love the price.

Thinking about the CS though, the only thing I want from that car is the tune and the 763m wheels... i neither want the CF roof nor hood (both which will go bad in a few years or you better always shield your car from the sun). I also don't want the interior pieces removed...

I want a Comp w an M Perform Susp, Tune and 763M wheels... maybe add a few minor aftermarket CF bits here and there. My whole package is far cheaper than a C and comes with what I need... again, people need to decide what they want. Neither car will work for everyone. I do however think that the CS for BMW was partially an exercise of high gross margin management to eek out everything from the 2 series chassis.

[MNoob]

Originally Posted by M3R1

How do we get Mr. Harris to review the M2cs? His endorsement would speak volumes for this car. His take on cars is typically on the side of driving pleasure, not lap times.

What a strange post.

[6CylindersEveryDay]

^ I really don't expect the carbon fiber parts to "go bad" in a few years. Carbon fiber wouldn't be used in the aviation industry if it wasn't resilient. Does anyone have a legitimate example of carbon fiber being damaged in the sun?

[ASAP]

Originally Posted by 6CylindersEveryDay

^ I really don't expect the carbon fiber parts to "go bad" in a few years. Carbon fiber wouldn't be used in the aviation industry if it wasn't resilient. Does anyone have a legitimate example of carbon fiber being damaged in the sun?

Literally almost every 2015-2016 M3 CF roof that I see has began to peel... a family member's already had problems.

the aviation grade CF that you are familiar with is not made to be cosmetically pleasing and has a way different stress metric

Below is an extreme example... but it happens and often-

https://f80.bimmerpost.com/forums/sh....php?t=1605798