[dmboone25]

Originally Posted by Die ///M Rakete

If any of you are surprised at this I have one word for you:

TESLA

Elon really lit a fire under everyone's ass. The term "Game Changer" gets thrown about quite a bit but it is an understatement in Musk's case. He's doing it to the space launch industry and he's doing it to the automotive industry as well. Who's next?!

Hard not to man crush on the dude

The 0-60 is a very nice party trick, that’s for sure. But how many times can you do it, before the car needs a charge? Not as many times as an ICE car can do it before the tank is empty, I would guarantee that.

I’ve ridden in a Tesla and didn’t like it. It made no mechanical noise, which was weird from an experience standpoint. I don’t know this to be the case, but I would assume it doesn’t perform well in situations that involve corners. It’s definitely cool tech, but that’s not what I care about in a car.

[Die ///M Rakete]

Originally Posted by dmboone25

The 0-60 is a very nice party trick, that’s for sure. But how many times can you do it, before the car needs a charge? Not as many times as an ICE car can do it before the tank is empty, I would guarantee that.

I’ve ridden in a Tesla and didn’t like it. It made no mechanical noise, which was weird from an experience standpoint. I don’t know this to be the case, but I would assume it doesn’t perform well in situations that involve corners. It’s definitely cool tech, but that’s not what I care about in a car.

Agreed. I have no plans of ceasing to burn dead dinosaurs either. That said, there is definitely a paradigm shift coming to a theater near you.

[fullstack]

Originally Posted by Remonster

Here's a random data point: both people I know who bought M4 GTSs sold them within the first month. One of the guys didn't even want to bother driving the car one last time before the new owner came to pick it up. I got to drive that one and found the suspension surprisingly nicely set up (given the negative press response to the car) but ultimately I found the car hugely, hugely underwhelming compared to the GT3. Both of those guys now own Porsches, if that tells you anything.

I think this is the reason that the m2csl development is being halted/scrapped. They're trying to start with a 4 seat coupe 2 series and making it a light track weapon. They probably figured that they need to sell it for at least a 100k. If this is reasonably accurate, then, pricewise they have to compete with purpose built sports cars. For a 100k I think most people would rather purchase a base 911 than a tuned and lightened m2 or even m4 with rear seats removed.

In my opinion, they should have stayed with the 'entry m' concept and made a stripper m2 with a non-detuned s55, lightwieght buckets, rear seat delete, and carbon brakes while focusing on the 'entry' price and call it the csl.

[VCP]

I also have friends in Europe that track extensively and race(one was a Porsche factory support driver) who chose to part with a GT3 and GT4. I am not saying in any way the GTS is above or even on par with those cars as this is where it gets a bit subjective. My ONLY gripes with GTS is it needs more power and more rubber. Mine will be upwards of 570hp soon and a proper wheel/tyre track setup. The longer straights on track is the only area I get gapped by many other cars.

Originally Posted by Remonster

Here's a random data point: both people I know who bought M4 GTSs sold them within the first month. One of the guys didn't even want to bother driving the car one last time before the new owner came to pick it up. I got to drive that one and found the suspension surprisingly nicely set up (given the negative press response to the car) but ultimately I found the car hugely, hugely underwhelming compared to the GT3. Both of those guys now own Porsches, if that tells you anything.

[akkando]

Originally Posted by dmboone25

The 0-60 is a very nice party trick, that’s for sure. But how many times can you do it, before the car needs a charge? Not as many times as an ICE car can do it before the tank is empty, I would guarantee that.

I’ve ridden in a Tesla and didn’t like it. It made no mechanical noise, which was weird from an experience standpoint. I don’t know this to be the case, but I would assume it doesn’t perform well in situations that involve corners. It’s definitely cool tech, but that’s not what I care about in a car.

They are making a new roadster, which I doubt will be the best sports car or track car, but at least they're fucking trying as far as electric cars and to do something sporty. The electric cars that we would get without Tesla would an oval with the most boring of tiny wheels. In fact I think the other car manufactures were making their electric cars hideous on purpose, either because they don't want them to sell, or they feel the market for electric cars is made up of customers who hate cars so much they want one that makes a statement whenever you look at it that says "fuck cars"

[DocWeatherington]

My thought is maybe a M2 beyond the CS or CP doesn't make a business case as the 2 series as we know it is nearing the end of its life cycle( In production since 2013). If BMW wants to pump more products, versions might as well start on the next gen now. An do it properly, as the cost to benefit ratio may not be worth it with the current gen M2 beyond the CS/CP.

mkoesel

Isn't it a rumor that BMW is working on a new 4.0 V8 to replace the 4.4? A similar set up like MB makes sense as it could be used in the "standard" cars just detuned and cost spread it across the line up.

[M3 Adjuster]

Originally Posted by medphysdave

Sadness, as I was planning to pass on the CS to wait for the CSL. I picked up something over Thanksgiving that I couldn't pass up.

it's always tease, tease, tease...

[Artemis]

S55 M2 in 2018 and strongest M2 sibling in 2019.

[ryem3]

Originally Posted by dmboone25

It tells me a lot. The GTS is completely overpriced for what it is, period.

The coolest thing about that car is the water injection system, and that’s not even novel.

My position as well and I still think the likely reason they would scrap the CSL. The market speaks. GTs sell over sticker, dealers were struggling to find buyers for NEW GTSs.

[dmboone25]

Originally Posted by akkando

They are making a new roadster, which I doubt will be the best sports car or track car, but at least they're fucking trying as far as electric cars and to do something sporty. The electric cars that we would get without Tesla would an oval with the most boring of tiny wheels. In fact I think the other car manufactures were making their electric cars hideous on purpose, either because they don't want them to sell, or they feel the market for electric cars is made up of customers who hate cars so much they want one that makes a statement whenever you look at it that says "fuck cars"

I am just not sure that I agree that the trends we are seeing count as "trying", if that makes sense. Do you see innovation here? Because I really don't, and I am not being facetious.

[dmboone25]

Originally Posted by ryem3

My position as well and I still think the likely reason they would scrap the CSL. The market speaks. GTs sell over sticker, dealers were struggling to find buyers for NEW GTSs.

But if you just take out all your tools and adjust things, it will be magic, we swear!

Says the GTS owner, as the GT3s, without any adjustments whatsoever, are flying by on circuit.

[tke743]

Originally Posted by Artemis

S55 M2 in 2018 and strongest M2 sibling in 2019.

More Please!

[SickFinga]

Originally Posted by Gatte

There is still hope for the M2 CS after the M2 Competition. A subset of these parts were booked out of inventory a little over a week ago.

It is highly unlikely that M2 CS in the screenshot refers to another model. BMW most likely simply refers to the M2 Competition as M2 CS internally. Similar thing was with the M3 Lightweight where it was referred as M3 CSL internally. So, unless you got a confirmation that those parts are for a whole new model separate from the M2 Competition, you are most likely looking at the same thing.

Originally Posted by Gatte

Also, there will be an M5 hybrid. Now, who would've thought that would happen.

Are you talking about the F90 hybrid or are they building a next gen hybrid M5 using F90 chassis as a test mule? The idea of an F90 hybrid seems insane to me.

[K9GunSlinger]

Originally Posted by Artemis

S55 M2 in 2018 and strongest M2 sibling in 2019.

elaborate!! please!

[M3 Adjuster]

Originally Posted by Die ///M Rakete

If any of you are surprised at this I have one word for you:

TESLA

Elon really lit a fire under everyone's ass. The term "Game Changer" gets thrown about quite a bit but it is an understatement in Musk's case. He's doing it to the space launch industry and he's doing it to the automotive industry as well. Who's next?!

Hard not to man crush on the dude

LOL. yes.. those Tesla 3 sales are revolutionary!

[seetohey]

Originally Posted by M3 Adjuster

LOL. yes.. the Tesla 3 ponzi scheme is revolutionary!

FIFY.

[M3 Adjuster]

Originally Posted by Artemis

S55 M2 in 2018 and strongest M2 sibling in 2019.

you and Gatte seem to be in very different camps..

[Olivo]

I just want BMW to make a M2 with actual M seats. Is that too much to ask for?

[Chako]

Originally Posted by Olivo

I just want BMW to make a M2 with actual M seats. Is that too much to ask for?

It's coming:



(Screenshot by Artemis)

[chmura]

I never cared for the CSL either. 1,000 only units, DCT only. No manual no care. I think its better M division focus on the comp and mayybe CS than a 1,000 unit CSL. Seems like a waste in R&D just for 1,000 units.

Now if it were manual only CSL than sign me up!!

[Olivo]

Originally Posted by Chako

It's coming:



(Screenshot by Artemis)

After driving a demo M2, and even just sitting in the one on the showroom floor we have, that's my biggest criticism. Maybe if we're lucky, they'll straighten them out too. Those two things happen, then no CSL is okay with me.

[Gatte]

Originally Posted by SickFinga

It is highly unlikely that M2 CS in the screenshot refers to another model. BMW most likely simply refers to the M2 Competition as M2 CS internally. Similar thing was with the M3 Lightweight where it was referred as M3 CSL internally. So, unless you got a confirmation that those parts are for a whole new model separate from the M2 Competition, you are most likely looking at the same thing.

I thought so as well. A few weeks back I also said that everyone who actually worked on the M2 variant thought they were working on the CS and not the competition. That would absolutely make sense if BMW had a different internal name.

Originally Posted by Gatte

What's interesting is that, people who worked on actually building these cars still think it was the CS and not the competition. Maybe there are 2 cars which might both be released at the same time or maybe BMW just decided on waiting longer since the base M2 is doing alright against the newer competition.

What is odd is why they would still be working on the competition in Garching when pre production cars are being produced in Leipzig already. For example, no work was done on the M3 CS for months before it was unveiled.

The last M2 prototypes before this were produced in September and carried plates 1404 and 1405 I think. Why would BMW start booking parts out of inventory now. It is not even just a few random parts. Some of the things that were picked up were left and right air intakes, holders of some sort, air circulation coolers, sealing walls, oil pump wheel, oil pump control unit etc. etc. It's like they are building almost a new car and not just tweaking something. I was also told that all these parts were not available throughout 2016 which is when we first started hearing about the CS. Some of the parts have only existed since November of 2016 (After the initial spy videos of M2 variant surfaced). Some of the parts like Bumper contribution left, right, Reduction.Bumpers front (ZB VERKL. STOSSF. VORN M2 CS) sound like things you would not have on a base M2 replacement. Also, US dealerships were officially told about the 1000 production M2 version. Taking all this into consideration, I am making an assumption that the M2 CS is still on. I have no confirmation on it.... Yet.

Are you talking about the F90 hybrid or are they building a next gen hybrid M5 using F90 chassis as a test mule? The idea of an F90 hybrid seems insane to me.

I did not ask about this much and was more worried about the M2 CSL. All I know is that there is an M5 hybrid in Camo already. I am not sure exactly to what extent it is hybridized.

Originally Posted by M3 Adjuster

you and Gatte seem to be in very different camps..

How so ?. I think we are both saying that there will be one special edition limited M2. I used to hope it would be the CSL but it looks like it could be the CS. I am not sure about the timeline but think 2019 could be accurate since this also aligns with the production schedule leak.