BMW Garage BMW Meets Register Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read
BMW M2 Forum > BMW M2 CS Model > Car and Driver Comparison Test: M2 CS vs. 2021 Cayman GTS 4.0

Post Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
      07-06-2021, 09:31 AM   #1
Ilikemike
Lieutenant
Ilikemike's Avatar
Canada
251
Rep
549
Posts

Drives: E92: F82: M2C: M2 CS (Now)
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Port Moody B.C

iTrader: (0)

Comparison Test: 2020 BMW M2 CS vs. 2021 Porsche 718 Cayman GTS 4.0

BIMMERPOST
     Featured on BIMMERPOST.com
Comparison Test: 2020 BMW M2 CS vs. 2021 Porsche 718 Cayman GTS 4.0

BMW used every tool at its disposal to transform the M2 CS into a sports car. But is it as good as Porsche's six-cylinder Cayman GTS?
By Tony Quiroga
Jul 6, 2021
View Photos
2020 bmw m2 cs dct and 2021 porsche 718 cayman gts 40
To create a car that can hang with the Cayman GTS 4.0, BMW put the M2 on a diet rich in carbon fiber and bolted in the 444-hp twin-turbocharged inline-six from the old M4 Competition. James LipmanCar and Driver

From the July/August 2021 issue of Car and Driver.

If you've ever used a wrench in place of a hammer, you'll understand what the BMW M2 is about. Engineers took an aging upright compact coupe that normally rides on run-flat all-season tires and transformed it into a great-driving car. Not content with the new tool, BMW has continued to adapt this wrench into the M2 CS. The 3533-pound result nails corners. From its acceleration to the sounds coming from the CS's 444-hp engine, it has all the sports-car traits that make us warm and tingly. It is the product of clever improvisation and adaptation. But as strong as the M2 CS is, we wondered, can it do just as good a job as a hammer?

Porsche's 718 Cayman GTS 4.0—our hammer—starts out with the right stuff. It's a two-seat, mid-engine, 3231-pound smile machine. A sports car at its core, the GTS 4.0 version gets a 394-hp 4.0-liter flat-six that sings to a 7800-rpm redline. Think of it as a poor man's GT4, if the poor man had $88,150 or, should he want our sparsely optioned, dual-clutch-automatic-equipped test car, $94,200. The Porsche's base price surpasses the Bimmer's by $3555, but as for the test cars, our M2 CS, loaded with carbon-ceramic brakes and a dual-clutch transmission, has the higher outlay, at $96,545. No doubt you're wondering why this tête-à-tête isn't between the less expensive manual versions. We wanted it to be, but BMW had just shipped its three-pedal M2 CS out east, leaving us with only the automatic to deal with L.A. traffic.

The test numbers say these cars deliver similar experiences, but the differences are real on roads like this. The BMW is scrappy and playful; the Porsche is precise and poised.

View Photos
2020 bmw m2 cs dct and 2021 porsche 718 cayman gts 40
James LipmanCar and Driver

2nd Place:
BMW M2 CS

Highs: Power surges, real steering, delightful imperfection.
Lows: Harsher ride than the Porsche, tire roar, squirms under duress.
1st Place:
Porsche 718 Cayman GTS 4.0

Highs: A big flat-six where Newton would want it, capability to handle what you throw at it, a fully dialed-in experience.
Lows: Engine lacks the turbo punch of the BMW, just two seats.
View Photos
2020 bmw m2 cs dct and 2021 porsche 718 cayman gts 40
James LipmanCar and Driver

Shifting for yourself is more engaging than letting the car swap gears, even if it is slower. But these aren't your father's auto-tragic transmissions. Porsche's and BMW's dual-clutch gearboxes shift faster than you can and have software astute enough to call up the same gears you would. For a closer connection, grab the steering-wheel paddles. Both models come with launch control, which makes lining up next to a challenger a little less stressful. Porsche's system revs the naturally aspirated six to 6600 rpm before perfectly slipping the fluid-bathed clutch to make the most of the traction from the Pirelli P Zero PZ4s. Do it as much as your inner 17-year-old desires. The GTS dutifully returns 3.4-second runs to 60; the manual version adds 0.4 to that.

BMW's max-acceleration programming isn't as effective. Try to launch at the default 3000 rpm and the twin-turbo 3.0-liter's low-end surge will light up the Michelin Pilot Sport Cup 2 tires as soon as the clutch plates make contact. BMW allows the driver to adjust the launch rpm by tapping the cruise-control toggle. The best practice on regular asphalt is to set it to the 1900-rpm minimum so the tires hook up before the boost arrives. We measured a 3.6-second run to 60—the six-speed does it in 3.9.
View Photos
2020 bmw m2 cs dct and 2021 porsche 718 cayman gts 40
James LipmanCar and Driver

To see how well each of these cars can pound curves into submission, we headed north out of L.A. and onto Frazier Park's empty canyon roads. Jump from the Cayman to the M2 and the BMW seems like a small SUV. But once you adjust to the upright windshield and high seating position, the M2's handling dazzles. Though the steering-wheel diameter is about an inch and a half too large, actual feel comes through the thick rim. The Cup 2s send barely attenuated jolts, jabs, and noise into the cabin, but the upside is steering feedback and precision and 1.05 g's of skidpad grip. Caught between the sticky track-spec rubber and the brawny 444-hp engine, the BMW's rear end squirms in distress under hard acceleration out of corners. That motion doesn't amount to much, but it moves through the seat and into your body. You get the impression that this little hellion is working hard for you. From the M2's logbook: "Playful, alive, and devilishly imperfect."
View Photos
2021 porsche 718 cayman gts 40
James LipmanCar and Driver

Inside the Cayman, a small thin-rimmed steering wheel and a butt-on-the-road seating position await. The Porsche's mise-en-scène—with the raked windshield, low roof, and front-and-center tachometer—reads sports car, and its dynamics live up to the look. The GTS has a better relationship with the laws of physics than the 302-pound-heavier CS. It changes direction with ease and boasts steering that responds to every fing of your fingers. Plus, the GTS nearly matches the M2 in skidpad grip despite wearing milder rubber.

Without turbochargers force-feeding its six cylinders, the Cayman doesn't overwhelm its rear end on corner exit quite as much as the M2 does, especially when the road rises over 5000 feet. While the Porsche lacks the BMW's turbo surge, the finely tuned throttle makes it seem possible to mete out each individual horse. That ability to precisely dial in the engine allows the driver to approach and ride the limit without fear of overburdening the chassis or the handling. Keep adding speed; no component appears unduly burdened.
View Photos
2020 bmw m2 cs dct
James LipmanCar and Driver

Both cars feature adaptive dampers and steel springs that provide firm but livable ride quality, with a small comfort advantage going to the Cayman. Either will stop hard enough to dislodge any french fries hiding under the seats, yet the Porsche prevails with its 149-foot stop and the firmness and grab of its brakes. The intake chortles and screams of the flat-six are also something the M2 can't match. There's a raucousness to the BMW, but the Porsche brings you closer to the machinery, which is literally just a couple of inches behind you.

The Porsche is the better car in nearly every regard, a win earned by being exactly the right tool for the job. Still, the BMW wears its flaws in a way that draws you in. More endearing, sillier, and just a bit less under control than the Cayman, the M2 CS is the one you'll remember, the one that will inspire gesture-filled stories beginning with "There I was . . ." But while it may be possible, and even fun, to pound a nail with something like a pipe wrench, a hammer is really what you need.
Specifications

2020 BMW M2 CS
Vehicle Type: front-engine, rear-wheel-drive, 4-passenger, 2-door coupe

PRICE
Base/As Tested: $84,595/$96,545

ENGINE
twin-turbocharged and intercooled DOHC 24-valve inline-6, aluminum block and head, direct fuel injection
Displacement: 182 in3, 2979 cm3
Power: 444 hp @ 6250 rpm
Torque: 406 lb-ft @ 2350 rpm

Transmission: 7-speed dual-clutch automatic

CHASSIS
Suspension, F/R: struts/multilink
Brakes, F/R: 15.7-in vented, cross-drilled, carbon-ceramic disc/15.0-in vented, cross-drilled, carbon-ceramic disc
Tires: Michelin Pilot Sport Cup 2
F: 245/35ZR19 (93Y) ★
R: 265/35ZR19 (98Y) ★

DIMENSIONS
Wheelbase: 106.0 in
Length: 175.6 in
Width: 73.7 in
Height: 55.7 in
Passenger Volume: 89 ft3
Trunk Volume: 14 ft3
Curb Weight: 3533 lb

C/D TEST RESULTS
60 mph: 3.6 sec
100 mph: 8.0 sec
1/4-Mile: 11.8 sec @ 122 mph
150 mph: 20.0 sec
Results above omit 1-ft rollout of 0.2 sec.
Rolling Start, 5–60 mph: 3.9 sec
Top Gear, 30–50 mph: 2.2 sec
Top Gear, 50–70 mph: 2.7 sec
Top Speed (mfr's claim): 174 mph
Braking, 70–0 mph: 155 ft
Roadholding, 300-ft Skidpad: 1.05 g

C/D FUEL ECONOMY
Observed: 20 mpg

EPA FUEL ECONOMY
Combined/City/Highway: 19/16/23 mpg

-

2021 Porsche Cayman GTS 4.0
Vehicle Type: mid-engine, rear-wheel-drive, 2-passenger, 2-door coupe

PRICE
Base/As Tested: $88,150/$94,200

ENGINE
DOHC 24-valve flat-6, aluminum block and heads, direct fuel injection
Displacement: 244 in3, 3996 cm3
Power: 394 hp @ 7000 rpm
Torque: 317 lb-ft @ 5500 rpm

Transmission: 7-speed dual-clutch automatic

CHASSIS
Suspension, F/R: struts/struts
Brakes, F/R: 13.8-in vented, cross-drilled disc/13.0-in vented, cross-drilled disc
Tires: Pirelli P Zero PZ4
F: 235/35ZR20 (88Y) N1
R: 265/30ZR20 (95Y) N1

DIMENSIONS
Wheelbase: 97.4 in
Length: 173.4 in
Width: 70.9 in
Height: 50.2 in
Passenger Volume: 49 ft3
Cargo Volume, F/R: 5/10 ft3
Curb Weight: 3231 lb

C/D TEST RESULTS
60 mph: 3.4 sec
100 mph: 7.9 sec
1/4-Mile: 11.6 sec @ 121 mph
150 mph: 19.8 sec
Results above omit 1-ft rollout of 0.2 sec.
Rolling Start, 5–60 mph: 4.2 sec
Top Gear, 30–50 mph: 2.5 sec
Top Gear, 50–70 mph: 2.4 sec
Top Speed (mfr's claim): 179 mph
Braking, 70–0 mph: 149 ft
Roadholding, 300-ft Skidpad: 1.04 g

C/D FUEL ECONOMY
Observed: 20 mpg

EPA FUEL ECONOMY
Combined/City/Highway: 21/19/24 mpg

C/D TESTING EXPLAINED
Appreciate 1
      07-06-2021, 09:39 AM   #2
LuvMyE92
Occasionally frequent poster
LuvMyE92's Avatar
2994
Rep
2,742
Posts

Drives: CT5V-Blackwing
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: RTP NC, USA

iTrader: (0)

For you M2 owners who may feel a bit crushed from that review, keep in mind that the Cayman is a spectacular car that has set the bar very, very high.
__________________
Current inventory:
F22 & G05
Cadillac CT5-V Blackwing w/3 pedals
Past: E24,E28(3),E34,E36,E37,E38(2),E39(4),E46,E89,E92 (obviously),F01,F06,F10,F30,F87,G12,G30(2),G82(2)
Appreciate 2
      07-06-2021, 10:11 AM   #3
M2CS
First Lieutenant
M2CS's Avatar
1025
Rep
306
Posts

Drives: M2 CS
Join Date: Jul 2020
Location: Germany

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by LuvMyE92 View Post
For you M2 owners who may feel a bit crushed from that review, keep in mind that the Cayman is a spectacular car that has set the bar very, very high.
Which is why it's extremely high praise that the M2 keeps getting compared to it. The Cayman was engineered more for track/performance than the M2, yet the M2 is right on its heels while having back seats and way more practicality. The margin between the Cayman and M2 should be much bigger, but BMW created an outstanding car that doesn't give up much to the more purpose built Cayman.
Appreciate 2
      07-06-2021, 10:54 AM   #4
NYNick
First Lieutenant
685
Rep
380
Posts

Drives: 74 tii 78 SC 20 M2CS
Join Date: Feb 2021
Location: NY

iTrader: (0)

Anybody who has owned a Porsche would never compare the two. Maybe not apples to oranges but...

no, wait, it IS apples to oranges.

Why people insist on making these comparisons is beyond me, other than they're approximately the same price. Other than that, they are two totally different cars serving two totally different purposes. Hell, the seating capacity alone is a dead giveaway.

They used to do this with the 2002, the tii and the 911/912 back in the day too. A waste of time then and a waste of time now.
__________________
2020 M2 CS
1978 911 SC
1988 Landcruiser
Appreciate 1
      07-06-2021, 10:56 AM   #5
buckybadger
BMW forever!
buckybadger's Avatar
United_States
1374
Rep
2,417
Posts

Drives: BMW
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: San Diego, CA

iTrader: (0)

Track focused vs. daily focused
__________________
2020 BMW X5
2019 BMW M2C
2014 BMW 335i
2009 BMW 328i
Appreciate 1
flybigjet6617.50
      07-06-2021, 11:16 AM   #6
mfarrzhp
Captain
mfarrzhp's Avatar
1484
Rep
898
Posts

Drives: 2018 M3 Competition
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: FL

iTrader: (0)

Garage List
Quote:
Originally Posted by buckybadger View Post
Track focused vs. daily focused
Not a bad result against arguably the best sports car under $100K, C8 also would be in the running. The CS is a more hardcore GT car than a sports car.

If I never needed 4 seats and a real trunk, I would have given the Cayman a better look, but since I like to get the top of the line, I would have gone GT4.

I also am a self declared BMW fanboy and I think the CS will be a more special car in 10-20 years, while Porsche will continue to make better Caymans for several generations.
Appreciate 1
      07-06-2021, 11:34 AM   #7
buckybadger
BMW forever!
buckybadger's Avatar
United_States
1374
Rep
2,417
Posts

Drives: BMW
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: San Diego, CA

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by mfarrzhp View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by buckybadger View Post
Track focused vs. daily focused
Not a bad result against arguably the best sports car under $100K, C8 also would be in the running. The CS is a more hardcore GT car than a sports car.

If I never needed 4 seats and a real trunk, I would have given the Cayman a better look, but since I like to get the top of the line, I would have gone GT4.

I also am a self declared BMW fanboy and I think the CS will be a more special car in 10-20 years, while Porsche will continue to make better Caymans for several generations.
Depends on your needs.
C&D is only looking at one or two metrics to say which is a better car. But BMW owners are smarter, they look at many metrics, both quantitative and qualitative, plus also practicality.
__________________
2020 BMW X5
2019 BMW M2C
2014 BMW 335i
2009 BMW 328i
Appreciate 2
mfarrzhp1483.50
      07-06-2021, 12:07 PM   #8
mfarrzhp
Captain
mfarrzhp's Avatar
1484
Rep
898
Posts

Drives: 2018 M3 Competition
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: FL

iTrader: (0)

Garage List
Quote:
Originally Posted by NYNick View Post
Anybody who has owned a Porsche would never compare the two. Maybe not apples to oranges but...

no, wait, it IS apples to oranges.

Why people insist on making these comparisons is beyond me, other than they're approximately the same price. Other than that, they are two totally different cars serving two totally different purposes. Hell, the seating capacity alone is a dead giveaway.

They used to do this with the 2002, the tii and the 911/912 back in the day too. A waste of time then and a waste of time now.
I agree, but I think it's they simply need to compare great performing cars at a similar price range, even though the differences are vast.

In case you didn't see Lieberman's IG story over the weekend…
Attached Images
 
Appreciate 1
      07-06-2021, 12:29 PM   #9
CarJunkie
Colonel
CarJunkie's Avatar
United_States
2616
Rep
2,819
Posts

Drives: e82 1M, f87 M2cs
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Tri-Cities, Washington

iTrader: (1)

Garage List
2020 M2cs  [0.00]
2011 BMW 1M  [0.00]
Quote:
Originally Posted by M2CS View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by LuvMyE92 View Post
For you M2 owners who may feel a bit crushed from that review, keep in mind that the Cayman is a spectacular car that has set the bar very, very high.
The margin between the Cayman and M2 should be much bigger, but BMW created an outstanding car that doesn't give up much to the more purpose built Cayman.
This
__________________
1M track toy mods: BMS chargepipe, BMS OCC, ADE FMIC, ADE motor mounts, MadDad/Lightweight Ti exhaust, ADE custom oil thermostat/cooler, custom MHD tune, F10 550i clutch, Ohlins R+T, Vorschlag camber plates, M3 'vert FSB with Turner endlinks, Stoptech Trophy BBK.
Appreciate 0
      07-06-2021, 12:49 PM   #10
6CylindersEveryDay
Private First Class
340
Rep
184
Posts

Drives: BMW M2 CS, VW Golf R
Join Date: Feb 2021
Location: USA

iTrader: (0)

I was originally looking to get a Cayman GTS 4.0 in Python Green, but I wanted a manual transmission and based on reviews it seems that on public roads staying at least near the legal speed limit the CS is just way more fun due to the gearing and turbo power. I've never driven the Cayman so I don't know, but I'm certainly having fun on public roads with the CS. If I were rich I would have a Python Green GTS 4.0 as well sitting next to the CS.
Appreciate 0
      07-06-2021, 12:56 PM   #11
Ilikemike
Lieutenant
Ilikemike's Avatar
Canada
251
Rep
549
Posts

Drives: E92: F82: M2C: M2 CS (Now)
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Port Moody B.C

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by 6CylindersEveryDay View Post
I was originally looking to get a Cayman GTS 4.0 in Python Green, but I wanted a manual transmission and based on reviews it seems that on public roads staying at least near the legal speed limit the CS is just way more fun due to the gearing and turbo power. I've never driven the Cayman so I don't know, but I'm certainly having fun on public roads with the CS. If I were rich I would have a Python Green GTS 4.0 as well sitting next to the CS.
The article says, BMW fans just want BMW to keep making E46's, like Porsche makes 911's and VW does GTI golfs, we'll, guess what, I think the CS is the evolved E46!
Appreciate 3
      07-06-2021, 02:22 PM   #12
medphysdave
Brigadier General
medphysdave's Avatar
United_States
4527
Rep
4,644
Posts

Drives: M2 CS | 85 of 592
Join Date: Apr 2015
Location: Charlotte, NC

iTrader: (3)

This review is how I would expect these two to stack against one another. I'd honestly be concerned if a sport coupe beat out a sports car that's been refined for quite a few years from one of the best in the business.
__________________
Appreciate 0
      07-06-2021, 03:59 PM   #13
chris719
Major General
7273
Rep
7,252
Posts

Drives: '08 M Roadster
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: NJ

iTrader: (0)

I am shocked at how fast the GTS 4.0 is still having the NA 9A1 engine. I was certain that it would be slower than the CS tuned S55.

In reality, these cars aren't that comparable since the M2 has rear seats and is a small GT car. Most people can't live with a Cayman as their only car.
Appreciate 0
      07-06-2021, 04:03 PM   #14
chris719
Major General
7273
Rep
7,252
Posts

Drives: '08 M Roadster
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: NJ

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by 6CylindersEveryDay View Post
I was originally looking to get a Cayman GTS 4.0 in Python Green, but I wanted a manual transmission and based on reviews it seems that on public roads staying at least near the legal speed limit the CS is just way more fun due to the gearing and turbo power. I've never driven the Cayman so I don't know, but I'm certainly having fun on public roads with the CS. If I were rich I would have a Python Green GTS 4.0 as well sitting next to the CS.
The Cayman does have tall gearing in all variants. I've never driven a manual so I can't comment on how bad that is. My guess is that it's fine with the 718 turbo, but it was the main complaint with the smaller NA engines in the 987 and 981.
Appreciate 0
      07-06-2021, 05:34 PM   #15
HeelToeShift
Captain
2001
Rep
993
Posts

Drives: Mine
Join Date: Aug 2020
Location: Here

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by M2CS View Post
Which is why it's extremely high praise that the M2 keeps getting compared to it. The Cayman was engineered more for track/performance than the M2, yet the M2 is right on its heels while having back seats and way more practicality. The margin between the Cayman and M2 should be much bigger, but BMW created an outstanding car that doesn't give up much to the more purpose built Cayman.
I don't agree with the former of your response. The BMW was literally made to be a track car and that is how BMW markets it too. The fact that the M2CS has a much harsher suspension and it less compliant as a street car says all you need to know about how focused it is. And then theres the power - it makes a material amount more power than the Cayman. Even if you only go by factory numbers its got 55 hp over the Cayman and gobs of torque - and we all know it makes far closer to 500 hp than it does 450 hp.

As far as practicality and speed go, a Panamera turbo is faster on the N'Ring than both cars (and a slew of super and hypercars to boot) yet it is a refined, full size luxury car - should we be taking anything away from the Cayman GTS or M2CS since they can't keep up with it? Absolutely not! Suspension and tires are so good this day in age combined with power can make even SUV's lap as fast a many sports cars (ie Cayenne turbo GT which is also faster than both of these cars on the N'Ring).

Ultimately, these are two of the better cars being produced today - though as a biased owned I went with the 718 GT4.
Appreciate 0
      07-06-2021, 05:35 PM   #16
ScullyD
Senior 1Addict
ScullyD's Avatar
No_Country
5159
Rep
2,426
Posts

Drives: BMW iX, Porsche GT4 RS
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: NJ

iTrader: (0)

Garage List
2022 M5 CS  [0.00]
2022 BMW iX  [0.00]
I'll fully admit to having a Boxster 25 Years on order right now, which i'm really looking forward to driving for a summer or two and then moving on from it (unless its really incredible). I never fully understood the purpose of the Cayman outside of the GT4, because if I have a coupe, I want space for people and things. The GT4 makes sense to me as primarily a track car.

The Cayman GTS to me is the most pointless of all the variants. If I'm getting the softer car that is a 2 seater, give me the convertible too. If i'm having the coupe, give me the harder edged track variant.

I am looking forward to trying that 4.0L engine and manual gearbox in the Boxster 25 Years though, and will see how it feels on the street compared to the M2 CS from at least a power delivery standpoint. If it feels much slower, it probably won't be around for more than a few months.

Last edited by ScullyD; 07-06-2021 at 05:40 PM..
Appreciate 0
      07-06-2021, 06:52 PM   #17
6CylindersEveryDay
Private First Class
340
Rep
184
Posts

Drives: BMW M2 CS, VW Golf R
Join Date: Feb 2021
Location: USA

iTrader: (0)

I personally just don't love convertibles, so I would only ever buy the Cayman and not the Boxter.
Appreciate 0
      07-07-2021, 06:31 AM   #18
Davil
Brigadier General
Davil's Avatar
Australia
6334
Rep
3,027
Posts

Drives: M2 CS, 18 Vantage AMR, 00 WRX
Join Date: Jul 2018
Location: Australia

iTrader: (0)

Garage List
It's all so subjective.

This review is probably better for people that love driving fun cars.

https://www.motortrend.com/reviews/2...arison-review/
Appreciate 0
      07-07-2021, 06:40 AM   #19
ND40oz
Major
ND40oz's Avatar
397
Rep
1,342
Posts

Drives: M2 CS
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Denver/Frankfurt

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by HeelToeShift View Post
I don't agree with the former of your response. The BMW was literally made to be a track car and that is how BMW markets it too. The fact that the M2CS has a much harsher suspension and it less compliant as a street car says all you need to know about how focused it is.
I guess I need to go drive the Cayman GTS 4.0 because the M2 CS is one of the most compliant street vehicles I've driven short of something with air. Certainly rides a lot better than my Mini and the M2 Competition.
__________________
21 BMW X5 xDrive40i
20 BMW M2 CS
19 Mini Cooper S Countryman ALL4 6MT
Appreciate 0
      07-07-2021, 06:44 AM   #20
Davil
Brigadier General
Davil's Avatar
Australia
6334
Rep
3,027
Posts

Drives: M2 CS, 18 Vantage AMR, 00 WRX
Join Date: Jul 2018
Location: Australia

iTrader: (0)

Garage List
Quote:
Originally Posted by ND40oz View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by HeelToeShift View Post
I don't agree with the former of your response. The BMW was literally made to be a track car and that is how BMW markets it too. The fact that the M2CS has a much harsher suspension and it less compliant as a street car says all you need to know about how focused it is.
I guess I need to go drive the Cayman GTS 4.0 because the M2 CS is one of the most compliant street vehicles I've driven short of something with air. Certainly rides a lot better than my Mini and the M2 Competition.
Agree. It's not a track car ar all. Fantastic road car that is quite capable on a track. The Cayman is a track car not so much fun on the road.

"Feel And Fun Matter, Big Time

The delivery is the defining difference. The Cayman's strength is also its (relative) Achilles' heel: It belongs on a racetrack, and it just doesn't find its magic on the street until you're on the bleeding edge. Problem is, that's really asking for trouble considering how fast it is. You just can't get into a cosmic groove with this car until you're driving right to the absolute limit of the road; it feels like a dance on the very edge of sanity with no margin left before catastrophe. You just wish you could enjoy the GT4 more before you extend yourself to such a hair-raising level.
We're not saying whatsoever the car isn't enjoyable before the last tenth. Rather, this 718 is so good and so precise and so isolating that it doesn't feel like you're really challenging it until the last bit, and that makes it less exciting to drive in most realistic circumstances than it should be. A lower-spec Cayman isn't as quick, but it tends to feel more emotional, more engaging, and more fun on the road. Again, though: If track work is your bag, the 2021 Porsche 718 Cayman GT4 is your lunch.

The ABS issue Pobst reported is part of the problem. American roads are even bumpier than the Streets of Willow, and often in braking zones. It's one thing to feel the pedal momentarily go wooden and the braking g-forces drop when you're staring down a wide-open runoff area on a track; it's another entirely on a mountain road. The thing is, the Porsche will stop. The feeling only lasts a split second, but it shakes your confidence. It takes at least a half dozen of these "oh crap" moments before your brain accepts the car will stop regardless of what the pedal tells you in the moment.
Rear damping is also an issue Pobst reported during our last Best Driver's Car competition. Although the Streets of Willow's small, high-frequency bumps didn't trigger it, WeatherTech Raceway Laguna Seca's few big bumps better approximate real-world mountain roads. Driving on California's famed Angeles Crest Highway, it felt as if the front and rear ends weren't working in sync. Just as Pobst said, the rear is underdamped, leaping off of bumps after using up all of its short suspension travel on the compression stroke. It just never feels fully settled, even if it hangs on like a rusted vice grip."
Appreciate 0
      07-07-2021, 10:46 AM   #21
HeelToeShift
Captain
2001
Rep
993
Posts

Drives: Mine
Join Date: Aug 2020
Location: Here

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Davil View Post
Agree. It's not a track car ar all. Fantastic road car that is quite capable on a track. The Cayman is a track car not so much fun on the road.

"Feel And Fun Matter, Big Time

The delivery is the defining difference. The Cayman's strength is also its (relative) Achilles' heel: It belongs on a racetrack, and it just doesn't find its magic on the street until you're on the bleeding edge. Problem is, that's really asking for trouble considering how fast it is. You just can't get into a cosmic groove with this car until you're driving right to the absolute limit of the road; it feels like a dance on the very edge of sanity with no margin left before catastrophe. You just wish you could enjoy the GT4 more before you extend yourself to such a hair-raising level.
We're not saying whatsoever the car isn't enjoyable before the last tenth. Rather, this 718 is so good and so precise and so isolating that it doesn't feel like you're really challenging it until the last bit, and that makes it less exciting to drive in most realistic circumstances than it should be. A lower-spec Cayman isn't as quick, but it tends to feel more emotional, more engaging, and more fun on the road. Again, though: If track work is your bag, the 2021 Porsche 718 Cayman GT4 is your lunch.

The ABS issue Pobst reported is part of the problem. American roads are even bumpier than the Streets of Willow, and often in braking zones. It's one thing to feel the pedal momentarily go wooden and the braking g-forces drop when you're staring down a wide-open runoff area on a track; it's another entirely on a mountain road. The thing is, the Porsche will stop. The feeling only lasts a split second, but it shakes your confidence. It takes at least a half dozen of these "oh crap" moments before your brain accepts the car will stop regardless of what the pedal tells you in the moment.
Rear damping is also an issue Pobst reported during our last Best Driver's Car competition. Although the Streets of Willow's small, high-frequency bumps didn't trigger it, WeatherTech Raceway Laguna Seca's few big bumps better approximate real-world mountain roads. Driving on California's famed Angeles Crest Highway, it felt as if the front and rear ends weren't working in sync. Just as Pobst said, the rear is underdamped, leaping off of bumps after using up all of its short suspension travel on the compression stroke. It just never feels fully settled, even if it hangs on like a rusted vice grip."
Pobst also flat out said the GT4 was all around the better car.
Again, don't agree here. The GT4 is surely aimed at the track primarily, but as an owner can tell you its as compliant if not more so on the street than the CS. The GTS is aimed at the street which is why it is more comfortable.
I don't particularly care for turbo engines, so an NA engine will also put much more emotion and charm in a car than a boring and awful sounding turbo. The GT4 is as much fun at 20 mph as it is 120 mph. Unlike most here, I have actually driven both...

From Dan Prosser

"Even with its adaptive dampers set to their softest setting, the M2 CS rides firmly. It's always busy and taut, but never crashy. Even so and given the money you'd be spending, I would hope for the kind of sophisticated, absorbent damping you find only in the very best performance cars and only from time to time. You get it in GT Porsches, in certain Lamborghinis and, unexpectedly, in the 2012 Mercedes-AMG C63 Black Series as well. Those cars glide across a bumpy road as though on a pocket of compressed air, soaking up intrusions and levelling out compressions, but while keeping their bodies under firm control. I had anticipated something similar from the M2 CS, but instead found toughness and a lack of composure over bumps."
Like the BMW it (GT4) rides with a certain firmness that never quite turns uncomfortable, but its suspension does a better job of smothering poor surfaces while keeping the mass of the body in check."

Right there, the GT4 even is more compliant which is what I experienced driving them back to back. Porsche is the best in the business when it comes to suspension set up with rebound and dampening and has been this way since the 991 was introduced and they continue to evolve it and lead the pack, same as the do with PDK, their manual gearbox, the list goes on and on...

Last edited by HeelToeShift; 07-07-2021 at 11:01 AM..
Appreciate 0
      07-07-2021, 03:02 PM   #22
kart driver
Captain
567
Rep
658
Posts

Drives: M & GT
Join Date: Jul 2018
Location: Europe

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by ND40oz View Post
I guess I need to go drive the Cayman GTS 4.0 because the M2 CS is one of the most compliant street vehicles I've driven short of something with air. Certainly rides a lot better than my Mini and the M2 Competition.
Try the Cayman GTS. You will be amazed of how compliant its suspension is.
Probably the best among sports cars up to $200K.
Appreciate 0
Post Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 08:41 AM.




m2
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
1Addicts.com, BIMMERPOST.com, E90Post.com, F30Post.com, M3Post.com, ZPost.com, 5Post.com, 6Post.com, 7Post.com, XBimmers.com logo and trademark are properties of BIMMERPOST