[5.M0NSTER]

Hey guys, I have my first 2 track days this weekend, and I got the PFC 08 pads installed, but I was not able to get my brake fluid changed. I have a bottle of Castrol SRF ready to go, but the shop which was supposed to do it blew me off. Typical German customer service I suppose.

So I missed my chance, and now I have to complete my first 2 days on stock fluid. Spa this Friday, and the temps will be low. Low 40F is the high for the day. Then Hockenheimring on Monday, and the temps will be in low 60F.

I know this sucks, and I will change it before the next set of track days later this summer.

But for now I'm stuck. How hard have you guys been able to push on stock fluid, and how did it hold up? I know I need to keep it under 8/10 to avoid vapor lock, maybe even 7/10.

Last time I ran with stock fluid was 5 years ago when I first started doing track days, and it was fine. But I've gotten quicker and far more aggressive in brake zones over the years.

With track pads i like to brake really late and hard, but is that the best way to keep fluid temp in check, or should I brake earlier and not as hard? What do you guys think?

[Proctor750]

Feel it out. Start early on the brakes and feel it out as you go a bit later each time. Back off as soon as it feels 'weird' and stay there until it feels 'weird' again. Also depends on the corner and speed you are carrying of course.

[ZM2]

Stock blue brakes with previous track experience? Not long.

I’m guessing you’ll start to get a longer pedal after 10-15min, once you’re used to the car and track, and are pushing.

Nothing you can do but back off a lap at that point.

[5.M0NSTER]

Originally Posted by Proctor750

Feel it out. Start early on the brakes and feel it out as you go a bit later each time. Back off as soon as it feels 'weird' and stay there until it feels 'weird' again. Also depends on the corner and speed you are carrying of course.

Thanks, good call to feel it out and ramp up the aggressiveness of braking. It will be one of the coldest track days I've done, with temps just a few degrees above freezing it looks like. This should make traction an issue but should help brake temps.

Originally Posted by ZM2

Stock blue brakes with previous track experience? Not long.

I’m guessing you’ll start to get a longer pedal after 10-15min, once you’re used to the car and track, and are pushing.

Nothing you can do but back off a lap at that point.

Thanks, good point about cool off laps. The format for this HPDE is open pit lane, so I can go out as often and for as long as I want. I will start with 20min sessions and see how that goes. Then start throwing in cool down laps and stay out longer perhaps.

Good advice gentlemen, thank you.

[dcgolfdr]

Take the SRF with you and maybe there will be a shop at the track that can help you change it.

[backmotor]

Someone at the track should be able to help you bleed the brakes.
Also, you might need a little more that one litre for a full fluid change, so maybe keep that in mind.
Good luck!

[GasBurnlife(landapanda)]

Originally Posted by backmotor

Someone at the track should be able to help you bleed the brakes.
Also, you might need a little more that one litre for a full fluid change, so maybe keep that in mind.
Good luck!

1L is enough to do a full flush. Keep in mind that you should also flush the ABS unit and will need a computer to open the valves.

[5.M0NSTER]

Had a great day yesterday at Spa. My first time there so I got an instructor to help me find the line, and by the afternoon I felt I was running pretty well. Lots of great cars on the track too. No problem with brake fade, but the temps were in high 30F range, so that helped. Here is a lap. PB is 3:02.1

[GasBurnlife(landapanda)]

Originally Posted by 5.M0NSTER

Had a great day yesterday at Spa. My first time there so I got an instructor to help me find the line, and by the afternoon I felt I was running pretty well. Lots of great cars on the track too. No problem with brake fade, but the temps were in high 30F range, so that helped. Here is a lap. PB is 3:02.1

Thanks for sharing. Just curious how expensive is it to visit a track such a Spa for the weekend, and does the cost cover insurance? Have you seen any cars for rent and if so, how much do they cost for the weekend?

[5.M0NSTER]

One day at Spa is ~700 Euro if you bring your own car. I did Hockenheimring today, and that was 610 for non members, and 460 Euro or so for members.

At Spa you can rent a Focus ST, a Renault Megane RS, for another ~700 or so. M2 will cost you extra 1300 Euro. If you want a 911 you're talking over 2500 Euto extra.

Not sure about insurance for a rented vehicle, but from what I hear if you drive your own your insurance covers HPDE events in Europe.

P.S. Found the limits of stock fluid on Hockenheimring today. About 10-12 minutes is all it took for the pedal to get longer. At 15 min it was quite noticeable, and at 18 minutes it was time to cool down an pit in because it was getting scary.

Working on some video from today. Will post it later in my Track Day planning thread.

[CosmosMpower]

I love Spa, got to drive one session when I did ED in 2016. Happy to hear that you didn't boil the fluid, I'm sure the freezing temps helped. Good call on upgrading the pads.

[dcmac]

Any further feedback on how you found the PFC 08 pads? I've got a set ready to go... decided to hold off this past weekend though as I already had a new tire and suspension setup, and didn't want to introduce a third variable.

Pumped to throw them on for next event though. I'm running stock pads and Motul currently and for a stock setup they've been pretty decent... just have to back off towards the end of sessions as the heat overcomes them. If there's one major miss by the M2's engineers... it's the lack of ANY brake venting/cooling!

[5.M0NSTER]

Originally Posted by dcmac

Any further feedback on how you found the PFC 08 pads? I've got a set ready to go... decided to hold off this past weekend though as I already had a new tire and suspension setup, and didn't want to introduce a third variable.

Pumped to throw them on for next event though. I'm running stock pads and Motul currently and for a stock setup they've been pretty decent... just have to back off towards the end of sessions as the heat overcomes them. If there's one major miss by the M2's engineers... it's the lack of ANY brake venting/cooling!

Not just M2, many other modern sport cars suffer the same fate.

08s thave been great at both my events. At Hockenheim I did boil the fluid, or nearly away, but that's not the pads fault. The grip from 08s is nearly 2x a street pad. So you can brake late, and with confidence. I like them a lot. They sound awful on the street which is to be expected, but worth every cent on the track. No fade, no give, just solid, strong deceleration.

I also have to give credit to ZM2. He recommended these pads, and he was right. He also called out 10-15min limit with stock brake fluid and once again he was right. R E S P E C T

Give them a try, they offer great stopping power and resilience to temp. They will help you shave lap times. You'll be amazed how much later you can brake and how fast they shed speed.

[5.M0NSTER]

Oh, forgot to mention: after 2 full days of not taking it easy on them in any way they only wore 10% or so. 90% of the pad still remains. Very impressive in my book!

[ZM2]

Appreciate the mention and glad you’re using your M2 the way it was meant to be enjoyed in Europe!

08s have great life for a track pad. My fav all time pad is the PFC 11. It doesn’t last as long as the 08, but the bite, control, and fade resistance is incredible. While it doesn’t last as long, it’s nicer to the rotor, so you’ll recoup a little of the extra cost by not having to replace rotors as quickly.

[CosmosMpower]

Originally Posted by 5.M0NSTER

Oh, forgot to mention: after 2 full days of not taking it easy on them in any way they only wore 10% or so. 90% of the pad still remains. Very impressive in my book!

Don't use that metric as you go, they will wear at a faster rate as they get thinner and you may get brake fade faster as it wears down. I toss my pads with about 3mm of pad material left.

[5.M0NSTER]

Originally Posted by ZM2

Appreciate the mention and glad you’re using your M2 the way it was meant to be enjoyed in Europe!

08s have great life for a track pad. My fav all time pad is the PFC 11. It doesn’t last as long as the 08, but the bite, control, and fade resistance is incredible. While it doesn’t last as long, it’s nicer to the rotor, so you’ll recoup a little of the extra cost by not having to replace rotors as quickly.

Originally Posted by CosmosMpower

Don't use that metric as you go, they will wear at a faster rate as they get thinner and you may get brake fade faster as it wears down. I toss my pads with about 3mm of pad material left.

Thanks guys! It's been a fun ride so far with the M2.

For sure pads wear faster the closer they are to the backing plate. After all that's where the bounding compounds reside.

The PFC 08 has been comparable in terms of grip and wear to Carbotech XP10 to be honest. Strong and wears long, so far. The XP10 left a lot of deposits which caused a shake at midium brake applies. The PFC has not so far.
Also I've made a mistake with Carbotechs to let it wear past 20% and had to charge pads on the side of the road on my way home before. So 30% rule is definitely a good idea.

Thanks for the wisdom guys. The knowledge shared by the community is super valuable. Why make mistakes when other have already learned, and you can learn form others.

[dcmac]

Originally Posted by 5.M0NSTER

Thanks guys! It's been a fun ride so far with the M2.

For sure pads wear faster the closer they are to the backing plate. After all that's where the bounding compounds reside.

The PFC 08 has been comparable in terms of grip and wear to Carbotech XP10 to be honest. Strong and wears long, so far. The XP10 left a lot of deposits which caused a shake at midium brake applies. The PFC has not so far.
Also I've made a mistake with Carbotechs to let it wear past 20% and had to charge pads on the side of the road on my way home before. So 30% rule is definitely a good idea.

Thanks for the wisdom guys. The knowledge shared by the community is super valuable. Why make mistakes when other have already learned, and you can learn form others.

Agreed, love this forum.

Any special tips to share when changing pads? i'm about to do it for the first time and have read just about everything there is to read... but you can never be too prepared Did you zip tie the sensors?

[GasBurnlife(landapanda)]

Originally Posted by dcmac

Agreed, love this forum.

Any special tips to share when changing pads? i'm about to do it for the first time and have read just about everything there is to read... but you can never be too prepared Did you zip tie the sensors?

Yes, zip tie the sensors and you can reuse them when you put your stock pads back for the winter.

[5.M0NSTER]

Agreed! I also zip tied them out of the way. I already put the stock pads back in too. Couldn’t take the noise for more than a few days.

I didn’t re-attach the wear sensors. They are still out of the way. It’s easy to see how much pads you have left with the brembo calipers. I’ll attach them again when I’m ready to sell the car.

Other than that just remember to put the retaining spring clips in the right way. Flat part out towards the wheel. It will be a bit of a pain to keep pressure on it and fish the pin through the pads, the clip and into the caliper but that part gets easier with practice. Good luck!