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      12-15-2020, 06:01 PM   #353
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Originally Posted by Artemis View Post
F87 EUR-spec: M2C and M2 CS end of production: already happened.

F87 USA-spec: M2 CS end of production: this month. M2C end of production: June 2021.

M2 hiatus: from July 2021 till November 2020. G80 M3 and G82 M4 become BMW M 'entry models'.

G87 M2 start of production: December 2022.

Maybe in a distant future a G87 M2 CSL may see the light. But as weight keeps on increasing, it will be a challenge to deserve the "L" of the "CSL" badge, except if it's changed from "Leichtbau" ("Lightweight") to "Luxus" ("Luxery") or "Limitiert" ("Limited").

An M version of the current 1-series: now that would be something. The E82 1M showed that there is a lot of potential. BMW M should make another pocket rocket. Success guaranteed. Look at the success of the Toyota Yaris GR: small, powerful, big fenders and financially attainable for most petrol heads.
I'm not one to hold my nose up and talk about the "purity" of the brand identity often, but a FWD M car is just absurd. That's not to demean the idea of FWD hot hatches, there are plenty of fun ones. But it's not a market that M should be a part of.
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      12-15-2020, 07:01 PM   #354
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Artemis View Post
An M version of the current 1-series: now that would be something. The E82 1M showed that there is a lot of potential. BMW M should make another pocket rocket. Success guaranteed. Look at the success of the Toyota Yaris GR: small, powerful, big fenders and financially attainable for most petrol heads.
Theres already a current version of the E82 1M...its called the M2.
Agreed an awd M version of the new 1 series hatch platform is a must & i'd bank on seeing one in the near future.
AMG have the A45/35 so no reason BMW cant do the same.
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      12-15-2020, 07:06 PM   #355
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Originally Posted by CalAcacian View Post
I'm not one to hold my nose up and talk about the "purity" of the brand identity often, but a FWD M car is just absurd. That's not to demean the idea of FWD hot hatches, there are plenty of fun ones. But it's not a market that M should be a part of.
Why does it have to be fwd, an awd version of the new 1 series platform similar to the AMG A45/35 would no doubt be a hit.
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      12-15-2020, 08:14 PM   #356
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Originally Posted by TargaM2 View Post
Why does it have to be fwd, an awd version of the new 1 series platform similar to the AMG A45/35 would no doubt be a hit.
As far as I'm aware, the 1 series platform is only currently made in a FWD configuration (it's not sold here in the US so my knowledge of the current generation is limited).

You can't just make a FWD car AWD if the chassis was not originally designed to configure it.

My family had the 2014 CLA45, and was actually queued to have the first CA delivered 2020 until it hit significant delays, so I am very familiar with that style of car and I enjoyed it a lot (except for the awful transmission programming, low speed engagement of the dual clutch was terrible and jerky).

But the 1 series platform isn't built to be AWD and BMW would never redesign the entire platform just for a performance model unless that design was at least partially incorporated into the original FWD model. The floor, rear suspension pick up points, firewall, rear "frame rails" etc. are all totally different on a modular platform compared to a FWD only one.

At that point it would be cheaper to make a 2 series chassis into a hot hatch. At least the 2 series could more easily be made into AWD.
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      12-15-2020, 11:26 PM   #357
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CalAcacian View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by TargaM2 View Post
Why does it have to be fwd, an awd version of the new 1 series platform similar to the AMG A45/35 would no doubt be a hit.
As far as I'm aware, the 1 series platform is only currently made in a FWD configuration (it's not sold here in the US so my knowledge of the current generation is limited).

You can't just make a FWD car AWD if the chassis was not originally designed to configure it.

My family had the 2014 CLA45, and was actually queued to have the first CA delivered 2020 until it hit significant delays, so I am very familiar with that style of car and I enjoyed it a lot (except for the awful transmission programming, low speed engagement of the dual clutch was terrible and jerky).

But the 1 series platform isn't built to be AWD and BMW would never redesign the entire platform just for a performance model unless that design was at least partially incorporated into the original FWD model. The floor, rear suspension pick up points, firewall, rear "frame rails" etc. are all totally different on a modular platform compared to a FWD only one.

At that point it would be cheaper to make a 2 series chassis into a hot hatch. At least the 2 series could more easily be made into AWD.
Ummm sorry but your wrong, the new 1 series IS already available with AWD. The M135i is indeed Xdrive & a new 1M would also be AWD not FWD.
BMW would not be stupid enough to develop a new modular FWD platform without the ability to incorporate AWD models.
The AWD & FWD hot hatch market is huge (at least in the real world outside of the US it is). You guys have no idea what you miss out on.
As i said i wouldn't be surprised to see a full M version sometime soon, I'm sure BMW want some of that market slice.
Btw i just sold my A45 daily & my wife has a new SQ2 daily (both pictured below) i also tarmac rally'd an STI (pictured) & Integrale amongst others over the past 20 years competing so I do understand AWD architecture somewhat, plus i develop state & national level race/rally cars so can do without the "automobiles basics 101" lecture but thanks for the effort even if it was wrong.😉
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      12-15-2020, 11:51 PM   #358
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Originally Posted by RPM33 View Post
You are correct 1000%. I have major concerns about the G87 M2 with the increased size, length, weight, and no DCT.
I currently own an F80 and an F87. If the G87 splits the difference between the two size wise, and doesn't add too much weight, and comes with a manual....I will definitely check it out. Plus, the spy shots show CF roof - and what if has adaptive suspension and better steering

I'm going to enjoy the cars I have for awhile but I can definitely see myself checking out a 2024/2025 G87 M2 comp.
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      12-16-2020, 02:30 AM   #359
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CalAcacian View Post
I'm not one to hold my nose up and talk about the "purity" of the brand identity often, but a FWD M car is just absurd. That's not to demean the idea of FWD hot hatches, there are plenty of fun ones. But it's not a market that M should be a part of.
An M version of the current 1er has a major advantage: more attainable price-point for most car enthusiasts, with the M brand allowing to command a $50K-ish MSRP for an entry level M car. BMW ain't no charity - it's a company with the goal to make money. And the 'pocket rocket cars' market is blossoming since at least a decade: look for example at the BMW 1M and recently the Toyota GR Yaris frenzy (261hp 1.6-litre 3-cylinder turbo engine capitalizing on the WRC motorsport aura).

Remember 'sacrilege' and 'fail' being screamed all over at dedicated Porsche forums when Porsche was building a SUV ? And have you seen the Porsche Cayenne sales figures ever since release ?

Also remember these BMW ads with the "That's why we don't have front wheel drives" slogan. These didn't age well.





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      02-01-2021, 11:12 AM   #360
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I currently have a 230i M sport coupe now. I'm heavily considering the new M2 for more horse power and to just have fun with it. Being assembled out of Mexico really doesn't scare me at all. I've have several Toyota Tacoma's and am a current own another one built in Mexico, never a mechanical issue at all. I do hope that BMW offers some upgrades that are available in the larger series 3 and 4. Some people including myself just enjoy the smaller versions of a car.
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      03-04-2021, 12:45 PM   #361
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CalAcacian View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by TargaM2 View Post
Why does it have to be fwd, an awd version of the new 1 series platform similar to the AMG A45/35 would no doubt be a hit.
As far as I'm aware, the 1 series platform is only currently made in a FWD configuration (it's not sold here in the US so my knowledge of the current generation is limited).

You can't just make a FWD car AWD if the chassis was not originally designed to configure it.

My family had the 2014 CLA45, and was actually queued to have the first CA delivered 2020 until it hit significant delays, so I am very familiar with that style of car and I enjoyed it a lot (except for the awful transmission programming, low speed engagement of the dual clutch was terrible and jerky).

But the 1 series platform isn't built to be AWD and BMW would never redesign the entire platform just for a performance model unless that design was at least partially incorporated into the original FWD model. The floor, rear suspension pick up points, firewall, rear "frame rails" etc. are all totally different on a modular platform compared to a FWD only one.

At that point it would be cheaper to make a 2 series chassis into a hot hatch. At least the 2 series could more easily be made into AWD.
No M135i is XDrive
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      03-04-2021, 12:48 PM   #362
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Quote:
Originally Posted by scoale View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by RPM33 View Post
You are correct 1000%. I have major concerns about the G87 M2 with the increased size, length, weight, and no DCT.
I currently own an F80 and an F87. If the G87 splits the difference between the two size wise, and doesn't add too much weight, and comes with a manual....I will definitely check it out. Plus, the spy shots show CF roof - and what if has adaptive suspension and better steering

I'm going to enjoy the cars I have for awhile but I can definitely see myself checking out a 2024/2025 G87 M2 comp.
I agree I am fully expecting the 2er and thus G87 M2 to come is right between the current 2 and 3 series sizes.

For a series that's a great size, back to the near perfect small 3 series coupe days.
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      03-04-2021, 02:16 PM   #363
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JustChris View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by scoale View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by RPM33 View Post
You are correct 1000%. I have major concerns about the G87 M2 with the increased size, length, weight, and no DCT.
I currently own an F80 and an F87. If the G87 splits the difference between the two size wise, and doesn't add too much weight, and comes with a manual....I will definitely check it out. Plus, the spy shots show CF roof - and what if has adaptive suspension and better steering

I'm going to enjoy the cars I have for awhile but I can definitely see myself checking out a 2024/2025 G87 M2 comp.
I agree I am fully expecting the 2er and thus G87 M2 to come is right between the current 2 and 3 series sizes.

For a series that's a great size, back to the near perfect small 3 series coupe days.
The current M2 is absolutely perfect

BMW might learn a little something from Porsche

It's not necessary to increase the size of each replacement
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      03-06-2021, 01:30 PM   #364
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Originally Posted by ///M TOWN View Post
The current M2 is absolutely perfect

BMW might learn a little something from Porsche

It's not necessary to increase the size of each replacement
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      03-06-2021, 04:12 PM   #365
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KevinC View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by ///M TOWN View Post
The current M2 is absolutely perfect

BMW might learn a little something from Porsche

It's not necessary to increase the size of each replacement
[img]https://photos.smugmug.com/Other/Ran...MG_0059-X2.jpg[/img]


Yes I have seen that

Pretty interesting to say the least
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      03-11-2021, 02:04 AM   #366
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Quote:
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ///M TOWN View Post
The current M2 is absolutely perfect
BMW might learn a little something from Porsche
It's not necessary to increase the size of each replacement
Who knew the 911 started life as a push bike and evolved into a sports car?!

Every day is a school day
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      03-23-2021, 05:35 PM   #367
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imagine paying $60,000 for a front wheel drive car
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      03-23-2021, 09:45 PM   #368
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KevinC View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by ///M TOWN View Post
The current M2 is absolutely perfect

BMW might learn a little something from Porsche

It's not necessary to increase the size of each replacement
Another example of how they've never changed the size.
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      03-24-2021, 07:33 PM   #369
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Just saw this rendering done. I'm really hoping they stick to the regular sized front grill.

https://www.motor1.com/news/496460/new-bmw-m2-rendered/
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      03-24-2021, 09:59 PM   #370
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^^ that's a very lazy render. Slight tweakage to the lights and wheels, not much else from the current car. I seriously doubt it will resemble that thing.
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      03-25-2021, 02:47 AM   #371
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Just saw this rendering done. I'm really hoping they stick to the regular sized front grill.

https://www.motor1.com/news/496460/new-bmw-m2-rendered/
That looks like a m240i of today with some slight changes

It's lazy as dude above me just said
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      03-25-2021, 02:38 PM   #372
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Those mirrors are terrible looking. As a whole, it looks SUV-ish.
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      03-25-2021, 03:55 PM   #373
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Render needs more width. The grill and lights are probably easy based on the M240i we've already seen.
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      03-25-2021, 10:57 PM   #374
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Render needs more width...

The grill and lights are probably easy based on the M240i we've already seen.
Yeah not quite wide enough

Looks like a quasi m car
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