[Mproved]

I have to chime in here. I’m an avid M enthusiast and have owned E90 M3, E92 M3, supercharged E46 M3, FBO E36 M3, S4’s, AMG, 991
turbo S and now as of last week 2017 M2 (with 99k miles I might add) yes you read that right. 99,000 Miles on a 2017 M2, granted all were highway obviously (30k/yr) I can compare directly the 991.1 Turbo S and M2. While yes the 991 Turbo S is insanely fast and handles well for a 2014, the value of car that you get from a M2 is almost unmatched for ANY car under $65,000 (let alone I’m comparing to a 190k sticker Turbo S)

The factory widebody of the M2, power to weight and torque of the N55 is amazing in comparison to the raved S55. While
Yes the S55 can make power, SO can the N55 with bolt ons and a PS2 turbo for $2400 if needed. However, it’s not needed. The car is so perfectly balanced that it’s the grown up E36 M3, which was the most understated M3 ever made, which may seem biaSed. While yes the 911 is a great platform, the value of the M2 with its upgraded I drive is WAY better than that of the 991. And I’m a Porsche fan, so don’t get it twisted. I LOVE a 911 and especially a Turbo S. But if I’m spending my hard earned money. I choose an M2 OG N55. Reliable engine, forged crankshaft, forged rods, oil pump redesign, factory widebody, sick I drive. Yes, the M2 is the best sports car that has useable power for under $65,000. F80’s can’t put the power down and sound terrible, also aren’t even close to as nimble as the M2 around corners.

[Fined]

Originally Posted by Moflow

I don't want to hear this man. Ever since i was a little kid, i've been rolling my eyes at the Porsche 911. It's the uncreative, boring choice that makes you look like all the worst 'rich guy' stereotypes.

The problem is that the older I get the more i understand why Porsche sticks to the same formula. And also how good that formula is. By my early thirties i had realized that at some point in my life, I am inevitably going to be "that old guy in the 911." This realization makes my inner child kick and scream and throw a temper tantrum. Meanwhile the adult part of my brain chimes in with "YEAH AND ALSO THEY'RE EXPENSIVE!" before finishing the thought with ".....but man they sure do seem nice.."

So i don't need your glowing review damnit! Old age will come for me eventually at which point i'll buy a 911 and think "Why the hell didn't i do this sooner?" but until then, i'm going to continue living my lie about 911s being boring, thank you very much.

You could always ease yourself into old age by going ahead and getting a 911. You'll likely thank yourself for doing it sooner rather than later.

[bmwdrive]

But... the 911 is more than 2x the price of the M2C. Sure it's better, but the M2C is already so good, how can you justify the colossal price difference?

That said, I will also eventually need my old guy 911.

[akkando]

Originally Posted by danf72

But... the 911 is more than 2x the price of the M2C. Sure it's better, but the M2C is already so good, how can you justify the colossal price difference?

That said, I will also eventually need my old guy 911.

Generally nothing for 2x the price is 2x better. You pay double if it's worth it to you to have something better.

[BimmerMan33]

Very interesting perspectives in this thread...

I've had 2 E9x M3s over the past 6 yrs (DD & track use), driven an F80 M3 & a 997.1 C2S extensively on canyon roads and a 997.2 turbo & 991.1 GT3 on a race track, here are my thoughts...

Porsche 911s are definitely better than M cars on a race track, thanks to the unique layout & a chassis designed to be race first then modified for streetability compared to M cars which are designed to be street cars modified by M division to be track capable.. this clearly shows when you push these cars on the track!
On the street, you'd really have to push a 911 to feel it's uniqueness whereas not so much an M car, and that's where cars are mostly driven... therefore the value of a 911 that's driven mostly on the street is diminished & makes it feel expensive... That's where the M2 feels such a good value while still being very good on the track.

In my opinion, people buy a 911 in large part due to its heritage!
If I had regular access to canyon roads, good weather all year round and frequent track visits, I'd buy a 911 for its track ability as well as the heritage.
Otherwise, the M2 is awesome!

[3t3p]

Thanks for this. I'm pretty much keeping my M2 forever, with only coilovers left as a mod.

The more I drive it the more it still teaches Mez being exciting yet kind to f-ups and so well balanced on the MPSS star tyres.

I'm almost ps4s will ruin this balance! If it does flash to stage 1 MHD tune but no more. Need/want her to last many miles.

[bmwdrive]

I had a longer than usual test drive of the 992 base and a M4 CS. As a disclaimer for my impressions, I don't track or anything like that but I enjoy driving. I took the cars out on the same roads. A bit of expressway and a bit of twisty roads.

The M4CS was first. It felt like a beast. At times on the expressway, the tire noise was deafening. The engine was roaring and in turns it did not feel settled. On the twisty roads, I didn't think I was going fast but the car in front of me pulled over to let me go by. I took a sharp corner fast and the back broke loose really easy. From my memory of M2C test drives, the M2C seemed playful and tossable. The M4CS was trying to kill me. Or maybe I just need to learn how to drive it.

Next up the 992. After driving it 50 feet I could feel it was way more refined. Nowhere near as loud unless I pushed it. The tire noise was way, way better. Even though I was sitting lower than the M4CS, the ride was much smoother and more composed. On the twisty roads it inspired so much more confidence. The back wasn't going to break loose on me. It just felt so much easier to drive fast.

With an M2C on order, I hope it strikes a balance between the two. I don't think I would buy the M4CS. That's just me. No disrespect to the car because it's a total beast. I would definitely buy the 992, if it wasn't for the six figure price tag. I wish there was an M2C around to compare with, but they're hard to find.

[Sphygmomanometer]

This has evolved into an interesting discussion. First though, nice Carrera. I'm sure the 991.1 will give you this bit more 911-ness because of its nat-asp engine.

I find myself being able to make a comparison since last summer when I went for a 991.2 GT3 with the Touring Package. I can say it made me appreciate my BMWs more. The GT3 is not three times better. It is better in nuances: you sit lower, the buckets are fantastic, yet comfortable, the steering is electric, but you feel more connected to the road (although I really like the M5s), the gearshift is weighty and mechanical, there is absolutely no give in the suspension, yet it is more comfortable than the M2. Driving the GT3 is definitely an occasion for me and don't get me wrong, it is fantastic and I love it. Maybe it's the ultimate modern yet analogue experience.

The GT3 is ultimately the more capable car but neither do I have the talent nor the space to summon all of it and in the end the only 'metric' that counts is how much fun you have with it and in that regard I am not sure how much less fun the M2 is.

I'd say if possible go for a 911, have that experience and enjoy it. It's just that the guy in the M2 behind you is probably having an equally good time.

[Davil]

Originally Posted by Sphygmomanometer

I'd say if possible go for a 911, have that experience and enjoy it. It's just that the guy in the M2 behind you is probably having an equally good time.

Good post. Yes, it's a capable, beautifully built car but I found there was just something missing. No idea how to explain it either. Some sort of coldness. I think the 993 was the last one that had "the fizz" as May would say.

[richard in NC]

Originally Posted by danf72

I had a longer than usual test drive of the 992 base and a M4 CS. As a disclaimer for my impressions, I don't track or anything like that but I enjoy driving. I took the cars out on the same roads. A bit of expressway and a bit of twisty roads.

The M4CS was first. It felt like a beast. At times on the expressway, the tire noise was deafening. The engine was roaring and in turns it did not feel settled. On the twisty roads, I didn't think I was going fast but the car in front of me pulled over to let me go by. I took a sharp corner fast and the back broke loose really easy. From my memory of M2C test drives, the M2C seemed playful and tossable. The M4CS was trying to kill me. Or maybe I just need to learn how to drive it.

Next up the 992. After driving it 50 feet I could feel it was way more refined. Nowhere near as loud unless I pushed it. The tire noise was way, way better. Even though I was sitting lower than the M4CS, the ride was much smoother and more composed. On the twisty roads it inspired so much more confidence. The back wasn't going to break loose on me. It just felt so much easier to drive fast.

With an M2C on order, I hope it strikes a balance between the two. I don't think I would buy the M4CS. That's just me. No disrespect to the car because it's a total beast. I would definitely buy the 992, if it wasn't for the six figure price tag. I wish there was an M2C around to compare with, but they're hard to find.

A guess that the standard M4 with Competition package is more refined driving than the M4CS. I just compared the M4 Comp to the M2 Comp on track. The M2C is the more raw, tossible, and playful of the 2, so its probably in between the M4C and M4CS . With the M4C a bit more top end performance. Look into 1 day M Schools to get more comfortable pushing the cars. Yes the M2C is tail happy in its sportiest settings but its absolutely controllable and usable to help rotate the car.
Its been 10 years since I've driven any 911 so I can't compare there...

[natmad]

Here’s a bit I posted a while back when someone was shouting all about the M4.

Originally Posted by xxxxx View Post
“It's a placebo effect, the M2 shares basically the same chassis as the F80/82!

The numbers show the F80/82being the better performer, Feels amazing is subjective!”

I responded with examples...

It is silly to think numbers make the sports car!!!


Practical Motoring AU

"All the while the M2 Competition is telling you what it’s up to, and reacting to your inputs ultra-faithfully. It’s an utter gem. For comparison, within a couple of hours of driving the M2 Competition on the road I took an M4 CS, a stripped out but still roadgoing M4, down the same route. The more expensive car felt unpredictable at the back end and short of feel at the front, so I drove it more slowly."

Very high praise.

Quote:
Nonsense, I thought, but after opening the link I saw that the text is written by Paul Horrell.

Interesting...
From Top Gear website:

Paul Horrell:
Been around a long time. If you drive a new car, he tested its predecessor’s predecessor’s predecessor. If you work in the car industry, he knows your boss’s boss’s boss.

AutoExpress -
"The engine transplant has helped give the newcomer true M car character, while the subtle chassis tweaks have added a welcome dose of control to the BMW’s already agile handling. Not only is the M2 Competition a fast and fun driver-focused coupe, it’s arguably the pick of the whole M car line-up.

Top Gear -
"This is a brilliant car, one of the best four-seat drives you can lay your hands on. One of the best drivers’ cars full stop."

"Praise be, BMW's given us a proper M driver's car. The M2 Competition is simply outstanding."

Car Advice (AU)

“We also had pretty much the full spread of recent M-Cars to go and play with, yet I can report without fear of contradiction that the Competition was the pick of the bunch, taking everything in its stride – carrying huge speed when asked to do so, but also finding better traction on the dusty surfaces than the old M2 would have.”

Goodwood Motorsport

“It might be understated in looks, but dynamically this extraordinary coupé is one of the most entertaining cars on sale, anywhere... ...So the M2 Competition is likely to remain the best sports coupé you've never heard of; buy it now before they're all gone... ”

AutoCar

Should I buy one?

“That limit playfulness – the rear differential’s willingness to lock, let you ride out a slide on neutral steer or with everything crossed up – remains the M2’s ultimate party trick. But this time it has more dimensions than that. It has more keenness, incisiveness and engagement all the time. It's a sports car, not a muscly coupé.

When Porsche moved to a four-cylinder engine, I wondered if its rivals would sense a weakness, an opportunity. BMW is the first to really take it. I give you one of the best driver’s cars of the year.”

I could go on and on... but I’m tired now.

These opinions carry so much more weight!

[baege]

Originally Posted by Sphygmomanometer

This has evolved into an interesting discussion. First though, nice Carrera. I'm sure the 991.1 will give you this bit more 911-ness because of its nat-asp engine.

I find myself being able to make a comparison since last summer when I went for a 991.2 GT3 with the Touring Package. I can say it made me appreciate my BMWs more. The GT3 is not three times better. It is better in nuances: you sit lower, the buckets are fantastic, yet comfortable, the steering is electric, but you feel more connected to the road (although I really like the M5s), the gearshift is weighty and mechanical, there is absolutely no give in the suspension, yet it is more comfortable than the M2. Driving the GT3 is definitely an occasion for me and don't get me wrong, it is fantastic and I love it. Maybe it's the ultimate modern yet analogue experience.

The GT3 is ultimately the more capable car but neither do I have the talent nor the space to summon all of it and in the end the only 'metric' that counts is how much fun you have with it and in that regard I am not sure how much less fun the M2 is.

I'd say if possible go for a 911, have that experience and enjoy it. It's just that the guy in the M2 behind you is probably having an equally good time.

very interesting perspective, I've had 2 981 Cayman S models and I have also found my M2C is be in the same spectrum of fun,
if I get clinical about it, I prefer the NA engine of the porsche, the better manual and the overall greater connection with the drive
I was probably more in love with the cayman when I first got it, then I was with the M2C, but it doesn't lag that far behind...

[psmalley92]

Originally Posted by admranger

Have you felt the lack of storage space since moving to the 991?

How is the NVH between the two. I haven't driven a 991 but I felt the M2 was quite a bit louder inside than I'd like for highway cruising. Curious if the 991 is more refined for my elderly sensitivities...

Sorry the late reply.

I haven't really felt the lack of storage space in the 911. The back seats fold down and become a shelf which is nice. It does "feel" smaller than the M2 but when it comes to everyday living, It doesn't really seem to be much smaller.

It is quieter on the highway than the M2 but its marginal IMO. The ride quality is better too, but I actually don't think it rides as good as I thought it was going to. Most people would say I'm crazy but thats just how I feel.

[psmalley92]

Originally Posted by BimmerMan33

Very interesting perspectives in this thread...

I've had 2 E9x M3s over the past 6 yrs (DD & track use), driven an F80 M3 & a 997.1 C2S extensively on canyon roads and a 997.2 turbo & 991.1 GT3 on a race track, here are my thoughts...

Porsche 911s are definitely better than M cars on a race track, thanks to the unique layout & a chassis designed to be race first then modified for streetability compared to M cars which are designed to be street cars modified by M division to be track capable.. this clearly shows when you push these cars on the track!
On the street, you'd really have to push a 911 to feel it's uniqueness whereas not so much an M car, and that's where cars are mostly driven... therefore the value of a 911 that's driven mostly on the street is diminished & makes it feel expensive... That's where the M2 feels such a good value while still being very good on the track.

In my opinion, people buy a 911 in large part due to its heritage!
If I had regular access to canyon roads, good weather all year round and frequent track visits, I'd buy a 911 for its track ability as well as the heritage.
Otherwise, the M2 is awesome!

This is a good perspective. Thank you.

For me the M2, although the handling is sharp, the car feels numb. The motor makes a lot of power but it doesn't have the character I want. I will own a E90 M3 again some day because I just can't get enough of the S65 and the character that car has. The 911 to me, has that character I've been looking for since I sold my E90 M3. The M2 is a great car, especially at its price point but it didn't make me want to drive the same way the E90 M3 did or this 911 does.

[psmalley92]

Thanks for all the replies. Some great points and thoughts. For me, the M2 is a great car but its not a car I feel like I need to own again. For me, the E90 M3 is though. I'm going to miss N/A engines when they are gone for good.

Cheers everyone, happy driving! We're "arguing" over two/three of the best driving cars built in the last 10 years, so I think w're all doing pretty good. Ha

[Rob495]

I've had some seat time behind my brothers 911.1 GT3. What an incredible car. It's better than the M2C in every way. Steering, handling, and the braking is so ..... direct. And the stratospheric redline sends shivers up my spine. PDK is lightning quick and it shifts HARD! Looks are killer! IMHO, the M2C can not compete with a 991.1 GT3 in any way, including fun factor. I love my M2C but eventually I will own a 991.1 or 991.2 GT3.

[MVBUILT]

Absolutely love both!

[TargaM2]

After owning the usual AMG & Audi offerings, muscle cars, awd JDM stuff & a string of hot hatches, i can confidently say the only foreseeable option that will get me out of my M2 is a Porsche, in particular a Cayman GT4 RS.
I had seriously considered the move to a new Exige or Alpine but I am convinced the GT4 RS will be 'the car' for me. Unfortunately pricing dictates that is going to mean a 2-3 year wait but life with an M2 makes the wait that much more bearable.
Great thread btw.

[Montaver]

Originally Posted by psmalley92

Thanks for all the replies. Some great points and thoughts. For me, the M2 is a great car but its not a car I feel like I need to own again. For me, the E90 M3 is though. I'm going to miss N/A engines when they are gone for good.

Cheers everyone, happy driving! We're "arguing" over two/three of the best driving cars built in the last 10 years, so I think w're all doing pretty good. Ha

Agree. The M2C is a good car, but the second it left my driveway I didn't miss it. I would quite happily own another E90 M3. The M2 had a layer of numbness not present in the e90, the s55 is not an evocative engine by comparison to the S65. The M2 felt cheap and tinny, the M3 interior, sound system etc. was a class above. Given the option to go back I would of kept my E90 M3 and never bought the M2C.

The e9x M3 competes for the best M car ever made imo, I don't think the M2 in any variant would even make the top 5.

[psmalley92]

Originally Posted by Montaver

Agree. The M2C is a good car, but the second it left my driveway I didn't miss it. I would quite happily own another E90 M3. The M2 had a layer of numbness not present in the e90, the s55 is not an evocative engine by comparison to the S65. The M2 felt cheap and tinny, the M3 interior, sound system etc. was a class above. Given the option to go back I would of kept my E90 M3 and never bought the M2C.

The e9x M3 competes for the best M car ever made imo, I don't think the M2 in any variant would even make the top 5.

I 100% agree with this and find myself searching for E90 M3's just about every evening. What a great car.

[Montaver]

Originally Posted by psmalley92

I 100% agree with this and find myself searching for E90 M3's just about every evening. What a great car.

You alluded to it in your earlier posts, a lot of it comes down to NA vs Turbo. Turbos are great for fuel economy, low RPM torque and making huge power numbers out of smaller displacement. However none of those things make a modern car engaging as an enthusiast to me. Induction sound plays such a huge role in the character and connection of a car, and forced induction completely mutes it.

The M2C you cant hear the engine unless your above 5000 RPM, and even then it sounds like its under a blanket. BMW compound the issue by removing all the sound deadening underneath the car so its competing with tire roar, then layer fake engine noise through the speakers over the top. Whoever is responsible for sound design should be fired, and it looks like they are making the same mistake on the g8x M3. Combine that with the numb steering and the front of the car feels completely inert.

Glad you like the 911, the MA1 is a peach of an engine. Imagine BMW weren't hamstrung by emissions regs and could still produce naturally aspirated screamers like the S65 with hydraulic steering. They still do drive trains to rank with the best, but the emotion has gone.

[M-Pilot]

Not to hijack OP's thread but couldn't resist when I saw the turbo vs NA discussion (congrats on your 911 btw OP) I owned several turbocharged cars in the past 10 years and must admit I quickly became a huge fan especially after owning an M4 Comp. I loved the S55 so much and ended up replacing my M4C with an M2C. It was another love story for me and enjoyed it very much on both street and track. Last year I sold my M2C with the initial plan to get something with a 4-door this time. Out of nowhere, I had an opportunity to test drive a 981 Cayman GTS but I had zero intentions to moving to a P-car. Well, at least until the test drive. That 20min test drive changed my whole perspective on these cars. I knew I had to get one and I did 6months later (took me awhile to find the exact spec I wanted). My 2016 CGTS isn't anywhere near as powerful as my tuned M2C, doesn't have nearly as much torque especially at low rpm but the way it drives, handles and sounds is something I have never experienced to this day in my previous cars. This is not to take anything away from M2/M2C and I would own another one in a heartbeat in the future (as long as I can keep my GTS ). However, as much as I hate to say it, I don't miss my days with a turbocharged car at all. Maybe it's because I'm not in my 20s anymore but I'm having more fun with less powerful, lighter cars than I did with 400-500+ HP cars and I much prefer NA engines over their turbocharged counterparts these days.