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      01-11-2021, 07:08 AM   #111
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After 5 pages of Mustang, S2000, crashed, etc.
xxyion save the thread with his review.

M2c vs. '21 Supra
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      01-11-2021, 12:03 PM   #112
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I hadn't realized the wheelbase difference.

97.21 vs 106, that is actually a huge difference.
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      01-11-2021, 01:30 PM   #113
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FaRKle! View Post
Here's why I wish I got a Supra instead:
-Looks way sexier (subjective)
-Better wheel/tire options (can fit wider for the track)
-9" shorter wheelbase
-Lighter
-HUD (this bothers me a lot having one in my "pedestrian" F31 but not M2).
-Possibly better suspension (less punishing and M2's is obviously sandbagged IMO).
-Better fuel economy
-Cheaper
-Slimmer key fob
-More interesting colors (I really like refraction blue, and would've ordered that for the M2C if available. I don't like LBB).

With the M2C, I really feel like I just got the drivetrain (engine/trans/diff) and practicality (can haul track wheels). Nothing else about it is really that special and I'm going to change a good bit of it (springs/shocks, most of the control arms, maybe seats because they're stupid and don't support my Schroth quick fit harnesses when my F31 does...). That said, no other current BMW fits what I wanted as much as the M2C.
Honestly after buying the Supra a lot of that really came into view for me as well. Also the tire fitment just blows my mind. I just bought 295 rears and i STILL have room. A lot of people are running 305 tires with zero rubbing in the rear. And that really helps put the power down.

Refraction Blue is really sexy and for me its the best color for the Supra (unless they do a Hakone edition green, then i'm going to have to trade my car for that one). However the dumbest thing and i dont know why they did this. The A91 (the refraction blue) doesnt come with a HUD. Like...why. Why take that option away. I really wanted a HUD, but i wanted the A91 more as i like the seats better (alcantara with leather vs all leather) and the blue stitching looks better than the white. But like cmon, wheres my HUD lol.

Also there are so many choices with suspension. I'm going with the HKS HAS kit where i can keep my adaptive suspension but go lower and stiffer. Thats such a benefit. But i can also go full coilover if i wanted too. Exhausts are also cheaper because everyone is making one for the Supra.
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      01-12-2021, 10:49 AM   #114
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Interesting to read your opinions on this. For me a Supra is out of the question until it comes with a manual gearbox. But when it does, hmmm..
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      01-12-2021, 03:45 PM   #115
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 5.M0NSTER View Post
Interesting to read your opinions on this. For me a Supra is out of the question until it comes with a manual gearbox. But when it does, hmmm..
I definitely think they would have sold more if they had come with a MT option. However its also very possible that they are reserving it for a later release. Toyota wants every release to have big changes to keep the car going for the next 5 years, and we already know that a MT option was tested with the car before production.
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      01-16-2021, 04:29 AM   #116
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I was cross shopping the Supra as well. Test drove several different Supras and spent tons of time in them. Several factors swayed me towards the M2C: 1) I hated the way I had to duck my head everytime I entered the car, 2) No manual option, 3) Reduced visibility compared to the M2C, 4) Seats weren’t as good as the Bimmer, and finally and MOST importantly 5) No space for my son and daughter. Id love to have the Supra and I agree with most of the points brought up in this thread. However the M2C is a do all car which fits my lifestyle and my current stage of life. if I were single or had disposable income it def would be our 3rd car.
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      01-16-2021, 12:10 PM   #117
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rob495 View Post
I was cross shopping the Supra as well. Test drove several different Supras and spent tons of time in them. Several factors swayed me towards the M2C: 1) I hated the way I had to duck my head everytime I entered the car, 2) No manual option, 3) Reduced visibility compared to the M2C, 4) Seats weren’t as good as the Bimmer, and finally and MOST importantly 5) No space for my son and daughter. Id love to have the Supra and I agree with most of the points brought up in this thread. However the M2C is a do all car which fits my lifestyle and my current stage of life. if I were single or had disposable income it def would be our 3rd car.
Yeah every single one of those reasons is what pushed me to the M2C initially as well. Exception being the seats. However i do realize that i have the A91 which come with Alcantara/Leather seats compared to the 3.0 which are all leather. I find the seats in the A91 to be far superior in both comfort and grip.

I do miss having the potential back seats or even the option to hold more if i fold them down, but as my girlfriend said "we have my GTI for that". So that helped convince me.
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      01-16-2021, 05:58 PM   #118
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Originally Posted by M3ILANA View Post
2020 Supra already beat M2C by Randy Probst
Numbers don’t tell the whole story. Randy may have gone faster in the Stupra (SIC), but out of 12 cars in the Best Drivers Car test, he ranked the Supra 9th and the M2 Competition 4th, behind only the GT350, Senna, and the winning Carrera S.

https://www.motortrend.com/news/rand...vers-car-2019/
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      01-16-2021, 10:54 PM   #119
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Makes sense. The Supra first and foremost is more of a GT car while the M2 Competition is the drivers track weapon. The Supra does exceptionally well for being more of a cruiser, however as much as i love the Supra and prefer it, i would also rate the M2 Competition higher as far as a pure drivers car.
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      01-17-2021, 12:14 AM   #120
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Quote:
Originally Posted by xxyion View Post
Yeah every single one of those reasons is what pushed me to the M2C initially as well. Exception being the seats. However i do realize that i have the A91 which come with Alcantara/Leather seats compared to the 3.0 which are all leather. I find the seats in the A91 to be far superior in both comfort and grip.

I do miss having the potential back seats or even the option to hold more if i fold them down, but as my girlfriend said "we have my GTI for that". So that helped convince me.
It’s interesting to see our difference in opinion on seat comfort and support. May be a difference in body build? The Supra is an incredible car, I love the low Center of Gravity and killer looks. Toyota and BMW knocked it out of the park. Post a pic of your ride.
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      01-18-2021, 11:12 PM   #121
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rob495 View Post
It’s interesting to see our difference in opinion on seat comfort and support. May be a difference in body build? The Supra is an incredible car, I love the low Center of Gravity and killer looks. Toyota and BMW knocked it out of the park. Post a pic of your ride.
Yeah thats true too. I'm 6'3" but very thin build. Very long torso. I also noticed that the seats seemed to be designed with more of a lying back type of seating position. its the most comfortable i've found while lowering your head so i can get a helmet on without hitting anything and i can see everything.

Heres an older pic when i just got my new wheels. Since then i've gotten some meatier tires so fitment is better.
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      01-19-2021, 03:48 PM   #122
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Quote:
Originally Posted by xxyion View Post
Yeah thats true too. I'm 6'3" but very thin build. Very long torso. I also noticed that the seats seemed to be designed with more of a lying back type of seating position. its the most comfortable i've found while lowering your head so i can get a helmet on without hitting anything and i can see everything.

Heres an older pic when i just got my new wheels. Since then i've gotten some meatier tires so fitment is better.
I love those Titans! Great pickup! I was shocked at how fast that ZF tranny shifted. Probably one of the best automatics I have ever driven.
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      01-19-2021, 04:41 PM   #123
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Thank you! I love these wheels and i think they look really good on the blue. I agree the ZF really surprised me. I had a 230i for a small bit with that transmission and it really sold me on automatics. I still think a DCT is better, but honestly the difference is so small nowadays.
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      01-19-2021, 08:29 PM   #124
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I've never personally sat in a Supra but I've been looking at various reviews here and there. Recently, I came across this:



Is this really a problem with that car?
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      01-20-2021, 08:00 PM   #125
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Quote:
Originally Posted by x233 View Post
I've never personally sat in a Supra but I've been looking at various reviews here and there. Recently, I came across this:



Is this really a problem with that car?
Hmmmm, well yes and no.

Does the car (especially the 2020) suffer from bumpsteer. Yes. Is it as drastic and as bad as he says it is. i dont know. I know plenty of people (including my own mechanic) who track their 2020 Supra's heavily and have never had this complaint. They dont even have any extra suspension mods except lowering springs.

Now that being said, Toyota did say that they fixed the bumpsteer issue. I have a 2021 with the supposed fix. I know what bumpsteer feels like, my s2000 is basically steered primarily by it, i just need to put my foot down lol. Do i notice any bumpsteer when i daily drive the Supra? Not even a little bit. Now granted i'm no track rat or pro racing driver, so what i can feel vs what someone who has hours of experience at the track can feel are going to vary.

Also take into account that some people just want their cars to be setup a certain way, and thats just not how it comes from the factory.

Remember the video where Matt Farah talks about how uncontrollable the M2Competition is and how bad the brakes are? I kinda view this video like i did that one. Both are in very specific situations with specific drivers and maybe this car just didnt fit them personally.

Does this car have excessive bumpsteer? i dont think so, and tbh i dont think 80% of drivers will find an issue with it in stock form.
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      01-23-2021, 04:39 PM   #126
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Quote:
Originally Posted by xxyion View Post
Hmmmm, well yes and no.

Does the car (especially the 2020) suffer from bumpsteer. Yes. Is it as drastic and as bad as he says it is. i dont know. I know plenty of people (including my own mechanic) who track their 2020 Supra's heavily and have never had this complaint. They dont even have any extra suspension mods except lowering springs.

Now that being said, Toyota did say that they fixed the bumpsteer issue. I have a 2021 with the supposed fix. I know what bumpsteer feels like, my s2000 is basically steered primarily by it, i just need to put my foot down lol. Do i notice any bumpsteer when i daily drive the Supra? Not even a little bit. Now granted i'm no track rat or pro racing driver, so what i can feel vs what someone who has hours of experience at the track can feel are going to vary.

Also take into account that some people just want their cars to be setup a certain way, and thats just not how it comes from the factory.

Remember the video where Matt Farah talks about how uncontrollable the M2Competition is and how bad the brakes are? I kinda view this video like i did that one. Both are in very specific situations with specific drivers and maybe this car just didnt fit them personally.

Does this car have excessive bumpsteer? i dont think so, and tbh i dont think 80% of drivers will find an issue with it in stock form.
One thing I’ve found when competing in the 24 hours of lemons is that the same car can feel vastly different to different drivers depending on driving style. We generally run 3-4 drivers per race and sometimes I’ll film people. One person might complain about understeer, while someone else is having trouble not spinning the thing. Then I’ll check the film and see that they’re both right, but that they’re each picking different lines or shifting gears differently so they’re not in the same gear at the same place on the track. One person might be going into turns a little faster and then scrubbing off speed mid corner with slip angle while someone else might be going slow in fast out. There’s a guy on my team who puts up almost identical lap times to me in the same car, and yet we’re fast in completely different ways.

It’s entirely possible in my mind that the Supra suffers from massive bump steer when driven by certain people while others will never experience that effect.
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      01-23-2021, 10:35 PM   #127
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Moflow View Post
One thing I’ve found when competing in the 24 hours of lemons is that the same car can feel vastly different to different drivers depending on driving style. We generally run 3-4 drivers per race and sometimes I’ll film people. One person might complain about understeer, while someone else is having trouble not spinning the thing. Then I’ll check the film and see that they’re both right, but that they’re each picking different lines or shifting gears differently so they’re not in the same gear at the same place on the track. One person might be going into turns a little faster and then scrubbing off speed mid corner with slip angle while someone else might be going slow in fast out. There’s a guy on my team who puts up almost identical lap times to me in the same car, and yet we’re fast in completely different ways.

It’s entirely possible in my mind that the Supra suffers from massive bump steer when driven by certain people while others will never experience that effect.
Yeah this was the point i was trying to make, however without the same kind of race experience you do it was hard to put into words. Even daily driving people have different characteristics. My girlfriend likes to claim her car is faster than mine, but its really cuz she drives with a heavier foot than i do whereas around town i like my acceleration and braking to be slow and smooth.
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      01-29-2021, 10:05 AM   #128
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Quote:
Originally Posted by xxyion View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by 5.M0NSTER View Post
Interesting to read your opinions on this. For me a Supra is out of the question until it comes with a manual gearbox. But when it does, hmmm..
I definitely think they would have sold more if they had come with a MT option. However its also very possible that they are reserving it for a later release. Toyota wants every release to have big changes to keep the car going for the next 5 years, and we already know that a MT option was tested with the car before production.
Agreed. Probably a contractual thing w/ BMW.

Toyota keeps tweaking their cars (LC, RCF, new IS) and I think they'll keep supra around without a major redesign for a few extra yrs, throw in the manual, shed weight, etc through the life of the model.

People (including myself) posted the same in the Camisa thread comparing Supra and M2.
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      02-01-2021, 11:27 AM   #129
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I happen to be on track with 3 Supras this weekend. One of them lost boost but threw zero codes. Brand new car so owner was disappointed and somewhat concerned. I'n spending with owner he seemed very satisfied with its performance on track before that happened.
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      02-01-2021, 03:27 PM   #130
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I would have loved the Supra at 16.
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      02-01-2021, 05:24 PM   #131
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I happen to be on track with 3 Supras this weekend. One of them lost boost but threw zero codes. Brand new car so owner was disappointed and somewhat concerned. I'n spending with owner he seemed very satisfied with its performance on track before that happened.
On the Supra forums theres been reports of our cars hitting some sort of limp mode randomly at cold start. No codes are being thrown, just all of a sudden the car cant rev at all. Some people experiencing it right when it starts up, some people saying it happens if they try to drive. its a weird one and hopefully Toyota can take alook at it soon
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      02-01-2021, 11:33 PM   #132
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I cross-shopped both the 2021 Supra and my new to me '19 M2C. I was really blown away with how much fun the Supra was. You really do feel the low center of gravity and the b58 motor sounds great (IMO better than the S55) and pulls like a freight train. I'm coming from the wonderful S65 in my e90M so maybe I'm more in tune with engines that howl (b58) vs shriek (s55).

I also really liked the steering feel vs the M2 and the simplicity of the a single sport button. It feels sooo eager to kick its ass out in sport mode which makes it a ball on the street.

I was 2 seconds away from pulling the trigger before my wife reminded me to test drive the M2 before making my decision and the availability of a manual + rear seats really pushed it over the edge. I think the m2 is the better car, but the Supra with a manual would be REALLY tough to beat as a toy.
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