[BallHog5873]

In the last year I have been able to purchase a daily beater in automatic, so my original reasons for buying the DCT when the M2 was my daily don't exist anymore. This spring I am considering trading in my '18 DCT M2 for a manual one, prob a '17 or '18. I haven't driven a manual in 20 years, but can't help feel like I'm missing a little of the driving experience with a DCT, even though I love the DCT and have high regards for it.
I think the auto rev matching and hill assist in the M2 will be a great benefit given my inexperience. And from what I hear the M2 is a fairly easy manual to learn. But Im also considering a possible 997 in manual.
Does anyone have any advice or experience with both manuals? Would the manual 997 be hard to learn on? I love my M2 and would like to stay in the family, but if a good deal on a 997 came up it would be a hard choice.

[///M TOWN]

Originally Posted by BallHog5873

In the last year I have been able to purchase a daily beater in automatic, so my original reasons for buying the DCT when the M2 was my daily don't exist anymore. This spring I am considering trading in my '18 DCT M2 for a manual one, prob a '17 or '18. I haven't driven a manual in 20 years, but can't help feel like I'm missing a little of the driving experience with a DCT, even though I love the DCT and have high regards for it.
I think the auto rev matching and hill assist in the M2 will be a great benefit given my inexperience. And from what I hear the M2 is a fairly easy manual to learn. But Im also considering a possible 997 in manual.
Does anyone have any advice or experience with both manuals? Would the manual 997 be hard to learn on? I love my M2 and would like to stay in the family, but if a good deal on a 997 came up it would be a hard choice.

The 997 is almost 10 years old

I'd lease a new 911 S Seven speed, because the new 911 is amazingly that good

[b0lzen]

My Buddy and I codrive for each AX event. One event in my M2 next in his 997 C4S. We did about 25 events together this year, a few in both cars at the same event.

We've both come to agree the 911 is more enjoyable to row through the gears, in comparison of the two. The M2 is easier to start off. For some reason we both have stalled the 911 on a multiple occasions.

I'd say the M2 would be a better car to learn on. I wouldn't let that make my decision though, both are fantastic cars.

[Fined]

For a driver whose priority is feedback/connection with the car.. the 997 is in an entirely different league to the M2. I have both so no bias or memories that weren't from back to back use. If you've driven a manual a few times, even a long time ago it'll come right back easily.

I went for a manual in the M2, since I use it as a daily driver. For my track focused car, the 911, it had to be dual clutch. My view on it is opposite of many, I'm aware.

If the idea, right now, is to have either the M2 or a 997 as a "fun car" for enjoying driving, I'd have a well sorted 997 over the M2. However, the M2 has some flexibility in use cases that 997 lacks in slightly. I'd prefer to never choose between my M2 and the 911. They both have their place and do not have much overlap, for me.

Even though my 911 is 2011 and the M2 is 2017, the 911 doesn't feel older. Even being 10 years old now it's screwed together so much better than the M2. It's just built better and you can tell easily. Some 997 that've had a hard life may not seem so. Best to drive a few different 997 with different equipment to get a good idea of what it's all about and also. One with Sports suspension and LSD drives considerably differently than one without, for example.

Final nugget: Don't try to look out for a 911 that is a "good deal". These cars tend to be priced suitably for reasons you may not be aware of. If it is a "good deal".. there are almost certainly aspects of the ownership/upkeep of that particular example that you are not taking into account.

[Moflow]

I don't have any input on the 911, but i've had my M/T M2C for about a year and a half now, and i've only ever owned manual cars in my life (38 years old.)

The M2 transmission is indeed very very easy to learn on. It generally doesn't ask a ton from the operator and is smooth and easy to drive.

That said, if you're looking for engagement, i'd rate the transmission like a 6 out of 10 or so. A large part of this is the auto rev matching which I believe can only be turned off with full traction and stability control turned off. The shift quality and feel are both pleasingly damped without any harshness, but of course the trade off being the loss of a bit of engagement. Similarly, the throws are just a tiny bit on the long side, making for relatively low shift effort, again at the cost of engagement and feel.

Its a decent enough manual, particularly for my use case (daily driver) and in a pinch i can turn off the electronic aids and still get that old school feel. But if your PRIMARY reason for getting the vehicle is engagement, I have to imagine a 911 would be better.

If on the other hand, you still want a car that's relatively practical, easy to drive, reliable, fast AND still has a manual, the M2 is a fantastic car.

[SEAT TIME RULES]

Get the manual M2 and have a Auto Solutions SSK installed.

[seis-speed]

Originally Posted by BallHog5873

In the last year I have been able to purchase a daily beater in automatic, so my original reasons for buying the DCT when the M2 was my daily don't exist anymore. This spring I am considering trading in my '18 DCT M2 for a manual one, prob a '17 or '18. I haven't driven a manual in 20 years, but can't help feel like I'm missing a little of the driving experience with a DCT, even though I love the DCT and have high regards for it.
I think the auto rev matching and hill assist in the M2 will be a great benefit given my inexperience. And from what I hear the M2 is a fairly easy manual to learn. But Im also considering a possible 997 in manual.
Does anyone have any advice or experience with both manuals? Would the manual 997 be hard to learn on? I love my M2 and would like to stay in the family, but if a good deal on a 997 came up it would be a hard choice.

If you do not need a larger trunk and large backseat go with a 997 manual.

You will get 4 things: Manual / hydraulic steering / rear engine 911 experience / NA motor.

If you do not like it after a year, sell for no loss and then go back to an M2.

Good luck and enjoy!

[BallHog5873]

Thanks for all the input!

[Apppo]

I have driven both and can say the 997 is a gem!! Especially the Carrera S.

My 2cents is depending on your priorities. For sheer driving pleasure and aural experience..oh my the 911 howl is intoxicating. Its just loves to rev and rev and rev. The interior is very dated and the plastic material especially the shifter can feel a bit cheap. The turn signal stalks feel like hollow plastic. I can see justification for light-weight but it just doesn't have the heft that you're used to in a luxury car costing 100k+. BUT!!!! Once you drive it - it all melts away... and oh man its so much fun.

The M2 though is leagues ahead in luxury and technology. The material and leather quality feels on-par to a luxury car, the engine has a lot of torque low down to propel you like a rocket ship and handles lovely around corners. Quite a riot. That being said, i've found it doesn't like to rev as much as the 997.

Drive both of them and you'll see!

PS. I didn't get the same feeling of the 997 when i tried a 991... perhaps rose-tinted glasses. the 991 though much nicer interior update + turbos..didn't feel as special driving wise as the 997.

[FaRKle!]

Originally Posted by BallHog5873

Does anyone have any advice or experience with both manuals? Would the manual 997 be hard to learn on? I love my M2 and would like to stay in the family, but if a good deal on a 997 came up it would be a hard choice.

I haven't driven an M2 manual, but one of my good friends has a manual 997.1 C4S.

Compared to the M2C the C4S has a better suspension IMO. Definitely doesn't beat you up like the M2C can and is just more composed overall without sacrificing control.

I haven't really driven a manual car in a while, but the C4S clutch was really easy to get used to. I spent 10min in a parking lot getting used to it, and then was out and about without stalling. In comparison, the afternoon I spent with a friend's GT4 two years ago was very difficult, and I was stalling all over.

The interior on the 997 is higher quality than the M2 (he has the full leather interior), even if the technology in it is old. Also, it actually has gauges (like oil temp and pressure) that the M2 SHOULD have, but doesn't. I find the seats more comfortable too (I don't really like the M-seats).

The M2C definitely wins on practicality.

[Germanauto]

997 will hold it's value too.

[Dasnub]

I love my M2 but if I was looking for a second fun car, I’d choose the 911 all day.

[Gizmo 335i]

Good advice above. And driving a manual is like riding a bike. It will come back easily. I'll just add one note and that I think the manual in the 997 will be easier to drive because 1) there is no clutch delay valve, and 2) the clutch throw is shorter and the engagement point is lower to the floor.

That is easily fixed on the M2 with a BMS clutch stop or the UCP. And adding the Autosolution SSK will make the shifter feel closer to the refinement of the 997.

[LuvMyE92]

I've owned both. The 997 is stupid expensive (still, even now) and the M2 seems to depreciate like a rock. So, bang-for-buck-wise, buy a BMW all day long. However, for long-term value, the Porsche wins, obviously.

As for driving, the Porsche shifter and clutch combination cannot be matched. Period. Sure, older BMWs were great, but the new ones with the stupid CDV just don't do it for me. Rev-matching is great if you don't know how, but if you don't, you should learn. It's part of the challenge in driving a manual well, IMHO.

Originally Posted by Apppo

PS. I didn't get the same feeling of the 997 when i tried a 991... perhaps rose-tinted glasses. the 991 though much nicer interior update + turbos..didn't feel as special driving wise as the 997.

After selling my 997, I ordered a new 991.1. It sucked. The 991.2 or 992 I have not driven, and I hear that they're better, but dang they are getting expensive!

Originally Posted by Fined

Final nugget: Don't try to look out for a 911 that is a "good deal". These cars tend to be priced suitably for reasons you may not be aware of. If it is a "good deal".. there are almost certainly aspects of the ownership/upkeep of that particular example that you are not taking into account.

Good advice. Porsche are very robust and generally trouble-free, but if you get a bad one, OMG, it's going to cost you.

[EYEHAVEYOU]

997 is no more difficult to drive than the manual OG M2 I spent some time with. Never stalled the M2 so I'm not sure if it automatically restarts after a stall like some newer manual cars, but after a day of practice stalling shouldn't be much of a concern afterwards anyways.

As a weekend car I think a 997 is going to be a lot more fun and give you a sense of occasion - plus a wholly different experience from your current M2, rather than an incremental change. Would suggest going for 997.2 to avoid some of the headaches of the gen 1 cars - will cost a bit more, but also expect it'll hold it's value better. Would also suggest looking at 987.2's if you aren't 100% set on 911, as a 2 seater mid-engine car inherently makes for a better sports car (I'm biased as an owner though).

[clubspec330i]

It is funny how I ran into this thread.

After I sold my F80 M3, I missed it. I have driven M2 with sport spring and loved it. After that, I have been looking for a used '17 or '18 M2 to add to my garage.

As for 911, 997.2 will provide you more raw experience than M2, but each has its own strength. My experience with 997 was '11 GTS. For everyday use, M2 >> 997. For fun and track use, 997 >> M2. Now, M2 has great potential. This is why I am looking to add used M2 (not Comp or CS) to my 991.2T.

Price aside, you will be happy with either one. Good luck.

[gsrbri]

Lots of good opinions here.

A couple of facts

1) The clutch effort for the M2 is surprisingly light compared to most cars - including the 997. You'll see what I mean.

2) The N55 M2 6MT pre-S55 engine is a special, low production car (under 5,000 units total 6MT in US). The 997 is a basic 911 with production numbers that are much higher (200,000 + in the US). Unless you purchase a special 997 (GT3, specially-optioned car, etc) the M2 will hold its value and may appreciate - speculative, but look at current Honda S2000 prices vs. Porsche Boxster values (a low mileage S2000 is selling for higher than its original price).

Both great and very different cars.

[akkando]

Originally Posted by gsrbri

Lots of good opinions here.

A couple of facts

1) The clutch effort for the M2 is surprisingly light compared to most cars - including the 997. You'll see what I mean.

2) The N55 M2 6MT pre-S55 engine is a special, low production car (under 5,000 units total 6MT in US). The 997 is a basic 911 with production numbers that are much higher (200,000 + in the US). Unless you purchase a special 997 (GT3, specially-optioned car, etc) the M2 will hold its value and may appreciate - speculative, but look at current Honda S2000 prices vs. Porsche Boxster values (a low mileage S2000 is selling for higher than its original price).

Both great and very different cars.

A decent 997 should hold its value. Seems like everyone is trying to get a hold of a clean mt one before it's too late. Last "analog" 911 because it still has hydraulic rack.

[Moflow]

Originally Posted by akkando

A decent 997 should hold its value. Seems like everyone is trying to get a hold of a clean mt one before it's too late. Last "analog" 911 because it still has hydraulic rack.

Ahhh 911 talk. I can do 911 talk.

Personally, i'd say that the original 911 was the last "analog" 911 because it was carbed. Unless of course, you want to say that the 964 was the last "analog" 911 because it was fully air cooled. Unless of course, you want to say the 993 was the last "analog" 911 because it still had air cooled heads. Unless of course, you want to say that the 996 was the last "analog" 911 because....uh...lets skip this generation. You've noted why the 997 was the final "analog" 911, but have you considered that the 991 version of the 911 could easily be called the last "analog" 911 because it has a naturally aspirated engine?

And lets not forget, the current generation 911 is bringing back the M/T, for what may well be the last time on the base model. Could it wind up as the last "analog" 911?

[akkando]

Originally Posted by Moflow

Ahhh 911 talk. I can do 911 talk.

Personally, i'd say that the original 911 was the last "analog" 911 because it was carbed. Unless of course, you want to say that the 964 was the last "analog" 911 because it was fully air cooled. Unless of course, you want to say the 993 was the last "analog" 911 because it still had air cooled heads. Unless of course, you want to say that the 996 was the last "analog" 911 because....uh...lets skip this generation. You've noted why the 997 was the final "analog" 911, but have you considered that the 991 version of the 911 could easily be called the last "analog" 911 because it has a naturally aspirated engine?

And lets not forget, the current generation 911 is bringing back the M/T, for what may well be the last time on the base model. Could it wind up as the last "analog" 911?

I'm not saying anything about what is or is not the true last of whatever, I have not even driven any Porsche cars. What I am saying is the chatter around car circles seems to be a lot of "I'm looking for a 997 MT" talk, and the fact it has a hydraulic rack and the 991.1 doesn't I personally would bet the 997 platform holds value better than an M2/M2C.

[Moflow]

Originally Posted by akkando

I'm not saying anything about what is or is not the true last of whatever, I have not even driven any Porsche cars. What I am saying is the chatter around car circles seems to be a lot of "I'm looking for a 997 MT" talk, and the fact it has a hydraulic rack and the 991.1 doesn't I personally would bet the 997 platform holds value better than an M2/M2C.

No need to take my comment seriously, I’m just joking around and poking a little bit of fun at 911 owners who all insist that whatever generation they own was the last great one.

[chris719]

Originally Posted by Moflow

No need to take my comment seriously, I’m just joking around and poking a little bit of fun at 911 owners who all insist that whatever generation they own was the last great one.

M owners do this too