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M2 Technical Topics > Track / Autocross / Dragstrip > Pushed the M2 (supposedly) with stock pads pretty hard at the BMW Performance Center

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      11-13-2017, 04:43 PM   #1
lax01
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Pushed the M2 (supposedly) with stock pads pretty hard at the BMW Performance Center

this weekend in Thermal...didn't really run into brake fade at all.

So a couple of caveats:
  1. They said the car was completely OEM - I don't know what brake fluid they were running
  2. The BMW track at Thermal (and the configuration we used) is not super high-speed like a normal road course - I doubt I broke 75-90mph at the fastest point
  3. I was pushing pretty hard and was able to get within 1/2 second of (again, supposedly) fastest time on the configuration used
  4. I ran in Sport Plus mode
  5. There was really only two hard braking zone - one after a straight and then another at the end

So, I guess my questions (and point of this thread) are: at what point do the stock/OEM pads start to fade and eat themselves (as everyone claims)? Do you really need to get them super hot by doing 100+mph entry into a braking zone?

I was seriously pushing since it wasn't my car and they wanted us to be hard on the cars. The timed "hot lap" actually ends with a dead stop in a box so you'd come to a complete stop after a ~25 second lap. We did this around 12 times in a row with a little bit of break in the middle (but we weren't exactly letting the brakes cool down). We were sitting in the paddock - at 0mph - waiting for our next run.

Otherwise, as it was my first time actually driving the M2 in anger (and since I really didn't care if anything happened to the car), it was a really fun experience to see how capable the stock car is. It's incredibly well posed and its very easy to rotate and feel weight transfer. We were (unfortunately) on the Contis (as they are a BMW Performance Center sponsor) but I can't really compare to the Michelin PSS since I haven't really driven on them in anger (only canyons) - soon though. I was able to get the Conti's pretty greasy if I was sliding around more than I needed to. The M3/M4s were also fun to drive and power-slide around the dry skid pad.
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      11-13-2017, 05:27 PM   #2
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My last comment here was related to heat soak, but I’ve had the same experience with the brakes at the PDC vs the track: http://f87.bimmerpost.com/forums/sho...1424671&page=2

I know several of the BMW instructors (have raced with a few of them, including Renner once) and they told me the cars use the Euro M Sport brake pads.

As for relative speed, I was told I hold the student AutoX lap record at the Greer location, but they were probably just blowing smoke and somebody has probably “beat it” by now. They did comment the time was quicker than a couple of the instructors.

Separately, I’ve given up on the factory brakes. I have a sticking piston in one of the calipers and will be going to a PFC BBK soon. But, it’s all about driving style. When you use the brakes so hard, it makes it more difficult to setup for the corner and remain smooth. That’s my big focus for 2018.
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      11-14-2017, 09:06 AM   #3
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Bet you they put M performance pads in those cars which are "OEM" also.
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      11-14-2017, 01:27 PM   #4
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Originally Posted by CosmosMpower View Post
Bet you they put M performance pads in those cars which are "OEM" also.
Would not be shocked...should have pushed for more info...
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      12-17-2017, 06:23 AM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lax01 View Post
this weekend in Thermal...didn't really run into brake fade at all.

So a couple of caveats:
  1. They said the car was completely OEM - I don't know what brake fluid they were running
  2. The BMW track at Thermal (and the configuration we used) is not super high-speed like a normal road course - I doubt I broke 75-90mph at the fastest point
  3. I was pushing pretty hard and was able to get within 1/2 second of (again, supposedly) fastest time on the configuration used
  4. I ran in Sport Plus mode
  5. There was really only two hard braking zone - one after a straight and then another at the end

So, I guess my questions (and point of this thread) are: at what point do the stock/OEM pads start to fade and eat themselves (as everyone claims)? Do you really need to get them super hot by doing 100+mph entry into a braking zone?

I was seriously pushing since it wasn't my car and they wanted us to be hard on the cars. The timed "hot lap" actually ends with a dead stop in a box so you'd come to a complete stop after a ~25 second lap. We did this around 12 times in a row with a little bit of break in the middle (but we weren't exactly letting the brakes cool down). We were sitting in the paddock - at 0mph - waiting for our next run.

Otherwise, as it was my first time actually driving the M2 in anger (and since I really didn't care if anything happened to the car), it was a really fun experience to see how capable the stock car is. It's incredibly well posed and its very easy to rotate and feel weight transfer. We were (unfortunately) on the Contis (as they are a BMW Performance Center sponsor) but I can't really compare to the Michelin PSS since I haven't really driven on them in anger (only canyons) - soon though. I was able to get the Conti's pretty greasy if I was sliding around more than I needed to. The M3/M4s were also fun to drive and power-slide around the dry skid pad.
From the moment that the M2 dropped back in early 2016 with a press event at Road America in Wisconsin , BMW has not shod an M2 for the press or at any of their performance center events with the STOCK pads if BMW knows the car will be going for anything more than a drive in the country.

For the first time since I am aware of, they supply all M2 that will go on track with M PERFORMANCE pads, an OEM upgrade.

This should give YOU pause about taking your own M2 on the track without upgraded pads.

I just opened my newest issue of BMW CCA
ROUNDEL magazine and there is an article about the M2 in it and the writer recommends not taking the car to the track on stock pads, something i have said since I first drove an M2 on track in early 2016.

This is very simple. If you've been to a track event and are an intermediate level or higher driver , you will wish you had spent $500 on brake pads by the end of a 2 day weekend.

That's pretty much a promise.

Don't listen to me... I have only been driving BMWs on track since 1997. Listen to other M2 owners here.


Brake Pads Recommendation for TRACK use http://f87.bimmerpost.com/forums/sho....php?t=1436265
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      02-05-2018, 08:36 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by M3 Adjuster View Post
From the moment that the M2 dropped back in early 2016 with a press event at Road America in Wisconsin , BMW has not shod an M2 for the press or at any of their performance center events with the STOCK pads if BMW knows the car will be going for anything more than a drive in the country.

For the first time since I am aware of, they supply all M2 that will go on track with M PERFORMANCE pads, an OEM upgrade.

This should give YOU pause about taking your own M2 on the track without upgraded pads.

I just opened my newest issue of BMW CCA
ROUNDEL magazine and there is an article about the M2 in it and the writer recommends not taking the car to the track on stock pads, something i have said since I first drove an M2 on track in early 2016.

This is very simple. If you've been to a track event and are an intermediate level or higher driver , you will wish you had spent $500 on brake pads by the end of a 2 day weekend.

That's pretty much a promise.

Don't listen to me... I have only been driving BMWs on track since 1997. Listen to other M2 owners here.


Brake Pads Recommendation for TRACK use http://f87.bimmerpost.com/forums/sho....php?t=1436265
Just received my track pads. Got the Pagid RS 29. Have done 5 track days with stock pads on last car (228 TP). Anxious to see the difference.
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      02-05-2018, 09:31 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chief1richard View Post
Just received my track pads. Got the Pagid RS 29. Have done 5 track days with stock pads on last car (228 TP). Anxious to see the difference.
Just bought RS29s as well..wasn't even considering tracking on the stock pads hah
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      02-05-2018, 09:57 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lax01 View Post
Just bought RS29s as well..wasn't even considering tracking on the stock pads hah
Haven't tracked my M2 yet, but just signed up for 5 track days this summer/fall. Have new track pads, and am considering Camber Plates. Looking forward to experiencing the difference between pads.
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      02-26-2018, 02:39 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by M3 Adjuster View Post
From the moment that the M2 dropped back in early 2016 with a press event at Road America in Wisconsin , BMW has not shod an M2 for the press or at any of their performance center events with the STOCK pads if BMW knows the car will be going for anything more than a drive in the country.

For the first time since I am aware of, they supply all M2 that will go on track with M PERFORMANCE pads, an OEM upgrade.

This should give YOU pause about taking your own M2 on the track without upgraded pads.

I just opened my newest issue of BMW CCA
ROUNDEL magazine and there is an article about the M2 in it and the writer recommends not taking the car to the track on stock pads, something i have said since I first drove an M2 on track in early 2016.

This is very simple. If you've been to a track event and are an intermediate level or higher driver , you will wish you had spent $500 on brake pads by the end of a 2 day weekend.

That's pretty much a promise.

Don't listen to me... I have only been driving BMWs on track since 1997. Listen to other M2 owners here.


Brake Pads Recommendation for TRACK use http://f87.bimmerpost.com/forums/sho....php?t=1436265
I just spent the weekend at Sebring with my 2017 M2, everything stock. Never had brake fade or any issues at all with the brakes. Maybe I'm not as aggressive as some of you young guys but I had a really great time. My only complaint is the ContiSport tires which wore off a lot of rubber. Also just read the Roundel piece. I usually read it cover to cover but no doubt missed that David Haueter piece on the M235iR and the M2.
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      02-26-2018, 03:38 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bummie View Post
I just spent the weekend at Sebring with my 2017 M2, everything stock. Never had brake fade or any issues at all with the brakes. Maybe I'm not as aggressive as some of you young guys but I had a really great time. My only complaint is the ContiSport tires which wore off a lot of rubber. Also just read the Roundel piece. I usually read it cover to cover but no doubt missed that David Haueter piece on the M235iR and the M2.
Excellent... glad you had a good time.

you've already answered your own statement so.. out of curiosity.. since you replied to my post.. what is your level of experience?
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      02-26-2018, 06:47 PM   #11
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Also, anybody capture (with the M Lap Timer), with stock pads, the forward Gs they pulled under braking?

I have multiple laps with RS29s and at the three hard braking zones at Buttonwillow, I was able to pull .86 to .89. No idea how that compares...

Can definitely see where I can improve and be more precise within braking zones via the app though...
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      02-26-2018, 07:18 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lax01 View Post
Also, anybody capture (with the M Lap Timer), with stock pads, the forward Gs they pulled under braking?

I have multiple laps with RS29s and at the three hard braking zones at Buttonwillow, I was able to pull .86 to .89. No idea how that compares...

Can definitely see where I can improve and be more precise within braking zones via the app though...
I would think this is tire compound and contact patch size limited, as both OE and aftermarket pads will lock up the tires.

I run PFC 11s and have seen 0.92g with 4S’s, 0.9g with RE-71R, and 0.86g with R888R under braking. I haven’t tried this on stock pads, but g’s should be similar if the tires are locking up.

This brings up an interesting side note, the 4Ss were 265/35 and 285/35/19s while the other two were 265/35/18, and I ran almost as quick times with the 4Ss. The other tires have more grip, so I’ve been searching for how to get the most rubber under the car.

Looks like 265/30/19 and 295/30/19 PSC2 or R888R achieves that. Will find out this year.

Last edited by ZM2; 02-26-2018 at 07:32 PM..
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