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      01-20-2020, 03:57 AM   #661
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It's 382 not 400+ hp.
Been dyno'd at 405-410 hp for the rwd version lol
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      01-20-2020, 04:58 AM   #662
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I think people are forgetting the fact that the e30 m3 had a 4 cylinder with less than 200 horsepower and the e36 came out with less than 300 horsepower. The “regular” 330i/330d models have more performance than that and I put regular in quotes because car guys tend to loose perspective. The 30i/30d are still very much high performance engines and especially in Europe we stare at them, since they are exceedingly rare. And are faster than about 97% of other vehicles on the road. They are for a fact very capable performance cars if eqiupped right.

This whole argument is about as stupid as the M4 renaming controversy/gran coupe is not a real coupe blah blah blah/why is it called the 328i if it doesn’t have a 6 cylinder???!!

No one is arguing the fact that the M[2...5] are the most extreme cars from BMW but for the performance offered by the Mxxx models it certainly makes them eligible for the M name.

And anyway the whole argument is moot since why the hell do any of you care what they are called? Just because of a name they aren’t any better or worse. And if any of you want to feel superior just because you have “a real M car” be aware you’re driving the same basic car as a 316d diesel with 100 horsepower and BMW is a company that makes a minivan.

Have fun!

Last edited by gosi; 01-20-2020 at 05:24 AM..
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      01-20-2020, 07:34 AM   #663
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I really didn't know people cared so much about a model name/designation.

Rarely do I ever hear someone mention the actual model name when I'm in discussion with another person/owner. It's usually "I drive a 3/4/5 Series, etc" and rarely "I drive a 330 or 340". Even for myself, I don't say "I drive a 440i Gran Coupe" because for the most part, many people wouldn't know what the 40i is.

I think people are looking way more into this than they should and stating things that help their argument when in reality, most people just don't care.
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      01-20-2020, 07:54 AM   #664
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Bmw making M the most Molested letter in the alphabet.
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      01-20-2020, 08:11 AM   #665
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Originally Posted by Bumpinjeep View Post
The fact that this thread even exists is a testament to the marketing team at BMW. Take a volume seller/service loaner, throw some stickers on it, and bam, you got people believing they have something truly special. The same thing happened to Mercedes when the C450 magically changed to the C43 the next year. I get it, imitation is the best form of flattery, but come on BMW, you can do better than Mercedes and Audi.
To be honest, I think BMW does it better than Mercedes in terms of branding and differentiating M/AMG. Sure, someone could mistaken a M340i for a M3 or M car, but I think many would actually believe that a C43 is an AMG because of how similar the naming is to the actual 63 AMG.
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      01-20-2020, 09:12 AM   #666
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Who cares? I could make a debaged B58 run in the 10's and smoke one of you M corporate lease guys any day.
Tell us where the bad M car touched you.
Based on his posts he's gonna need some therapy for a while. The big bad ///M sure has him triggered.
Nowhere, love the M cars, and love educating you ///M fairies with deep pockets who know nothing about BMW mechanics and engineering.

I'm still waiting for anyone to tell me why the specifications of a "true" ///M is light years beyond a track rated M340i? 30 pages and nothing, just feel, essence, perception and "bespoke" lol. Is it the 3rd party manufacturer parts? Or because it has 3 buttons that make you "feel" like a it's Porsche cockpit that A) "electronically" tightens the steering wheel B) Changes the dampening and rebound on the average M3 coilovers or maybe it's C) the Sport+ that really gets you hard as it flashes across the digital cockpit that just changes the gear ratios and turns off DTC.
Track rated? I think you mean service loaner.
🤣

It's all fun and games until it overheats on the 5th lap.
Or the crank hub can just simply fail on lap 1, an issue addressed on the B58 M340i
I'd be far enough ahead to get fixed and back on track before the service loaner caught up.
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      01-20-2020, 09:20 AM   #667
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Originally Posted by JayPichardo View Post
Going forward, today's M Performance models will be known as M cars slotting just below the single digit M models.

So for the 3 Series derived models, for example, all the below are now simply "M cars":

M340i
M3
M3 Competition
M3 CS
so are they killing the M3 branding? I don´t understand, how are they gonna differentiate them from each other? if those are 4 "M cars" how are we suppose to know which one is which? I don´t fully understand this
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      01-20-2020, 09:45 AM   #668
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by JayPichardo View Post
Going forward, today's M Performance models will be known as M cars slotting just below the single digit M models.

So for the 3 Series derived models, for example, all the below are now simply "M cars":

M340i
M3
M3 Competition
M3 CS
so are they killing the M3 branding? I don´t understand, how are they gonna differentiate them from each other? if those are 4 "M cars" how are we suppose to know which one is which? I don´t fully understand this
I bet you from here on out, the main differentiating factor between the M and M Performance models will be the availability of a manual transmission option.

M Performance will be strictly auto only and the M car variant will mix it up with a manual (and auto) option. The end.
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      01-20-2020, 09:56 AM   #669
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I don't think this thread turned into an argument. I think debate is a better word and considering its 31 pages apparently it's a lively debate . Nor do I think full on M owners are feeling superior or are butt hurt as a few have said. I appreciate all BMW models old and new. . I like the brand and what it stands for and M is a strong sub brand of BMW. I agree it should be reserved for the full on M cars. I would say BMW made a mistake in whoring "M" out across its entire line except for the fact that they had record sales this year. From that angle I guess they know what they are doing.

I admit that an M340 X drive with a tune and a few bits added would be a better and more sensible choice for me. It's a hell of a car and I may own one down the road.. But I'm in a M3 CS right now because after 60 years I finally got to a place in my life I could afford one. It was a gift to myself. Its different and unique and special and stirs my emotions. Which is how most car enthusiasts choose a car. As long as it does that it's all good.
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      01-20-2020, 10:01 AM   #670
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      01-20-2020, 10:21 AM   #671
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Originally Posted by dezzracer View Post
I don't think this thread turned into an argument. I think debate is a better word and considering its 31 pages apparently it's a lively debate . Nor do I think full on M owners are feeling superior or are butt hurt as a few have said. I appreciate all BMW models old and new. . I like the brand and what it stands for and M is a strong sub brand of BMW. I agree it should be reserved for the full on M cars. I would say BMW made a mistake in whoring "M" out across its entire line except for the fact that they had record sales this year. From that angle I guess they know what they are doing.

I admit that an M340 X drive with a tune and a few bits added would be a better and more sensible choice for me. It's a hell of a car and I may own one down the road.. [B]But I'm in a M3 CS right now because after 60 years I finally got to a place in my life I could afford one. It was a gift to myself. Its different and unique and special and stirs my emotions. Which is how most car enthusiasts choose a car. As long as it does that it's all good.
IMHO a totally legitimate reason. I am also at that point in life, but I am also at a point in life where I won't be tracking the car so a true M car is over the top for me (and my spouse will scream at the stiff suspension). But that doesn't mean I don't want performance and that doesn't mean that I don't want to be able to pass a slower vehicle on a steep hill where the speed limit is 65 or 75 without worrying about my ability to quickly speed up and go by the car (and then slow down once I get past).

But do it because you want/need the car, not because you want to show off to others. And if you want what used to be called an MPerformance car, for your wants/needs, go ahead and do it and it is no one else's concern.
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      01-20-2020, 10:32 AM   #672
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My argument is does the new M340i that's developed by the M division (which is apparently the main caveat for the ///M fanboys) with M division parts, sacrilegious to to have the M badge on its end when BMW GmbH themselves say so?

No one ever on the thread questioned that it's the premium M version. Its just funny to see /// M guys so offended because their car is getting watered down, what else could it be? Any real BMW person knows what's the premium car.

Is an Audi S5 which is the original Audi sport car now a less of a car even though the more recently developed RS5 line is the premium sport line of Audi? Who cares, don't get OFFENDED, love your car, don't hate on the brand(ing)...
Seems like you're foaming more than the "///M guys" about this.

A question for you: if I go to bmwusa.com or to global bmw.com site, how come they separate the 3-series and M cars, and the M340i is not under the "M" link?
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      01-20-2020, 10:39 AM   #673
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Or the crank hub can just simply fail on lap 1, an issue addressed on the B58 M340i
But that will also be fixed with the G80 M3 progress is a helluva drug
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      01-20-2020, 10:47 AM   #674
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As I've stated in an earlier post, there seems to be so much insecurity on here.

From my perspective, the M340i is an M-Lite, like all M Performance models are, and always have been. An M3 is a 'full fat' M-car.

Nothing changes that, never has from when the first E12 was breathed on by BMW's Motorsport division, to become the M535i back in 1979. The first M5 (E28) was an M-Car, the E28 M535i never claimed to be more than an M-Lite. Although breathed on by Motorsport, was set up simply to give it a more sporting character than the standard 535i.

Remember the E12 M535i was the first cooperative venture between BMW's production and Motorsport divisions.

All this was going on before many now debating, were even born, certainly before many were driving BMW.
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      01-20-2020, 11:02 AM   #675
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Originally Posted by drF80 View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by nicky dj View Post

My argument is does the new M340i that's developed by the M division (which is apparently the main caveat for the ///M fanboys) with M division parts, sacrilegious to to have the M badge on its end when BMW GmbH themselves say so?

No one ever on the thread questioned that it's the premium M version. Its just funny to see /// M guys so offended because their car is getting watered down, what else could it be? Any real BMW person knows what's the premium car.

Is an Audi S5 which is the original Audi sport car now a less of a car even though the more recently developed RS5 line is the premium sport line of Audi? Who cares, don't get OFFENDED, love your car, don't hate on the brand(ing)...
Seems like you're foaming more than the "///M guys" about this.

A question for you: if I go to bmwusa.com or to global bmw.com site, how come they separate the 3-series and M cars, and the M340i is not under the "M" link?
Apparently you're not clicking in far enough when you're on the BMW USA website 'build your vehicle' option in the M section, because the writing on the wall is clearly right there:
Attached Images
  
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      01-20-2020, 11:08 AM   #676
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Originally Posted by JTO24 View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by nicky dj View Post
Or the crank hub can just simply fail on lap 1, an issue addressed on the B58 M340i
But that will also be fixed with the G80 M3 progress is a helluva drug
B58 >> to S58, go figure. Progress is developed from a baseline, that being said the M340i is one hell of a guinea pig for the M division, but apparently they have zero relation to "non-M" vehicles
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      01-20-2020, 11:09 AM   #677
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nicky dj View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by drF80 View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by nicky dj View Post

My argument is does the new M340i that's developed by the M division (which is apparently the main caveat for the ///M fanboys) with M division parts, sacrilegious to to have the M badge on its end when BMW GmbH themselves say so?

No one ever on the thread questioned that it's the premium M version. Its just funny to see /// M guys so offended because their car is getting watered down, what else could it be? Any real BMW person knows what's the premium car.

Is an Audi S5 which is the original Audi sport car now a less of a car even though the more recently developed RS5 line is the premium sport line of Audi? Who cares, don't get OFFENDED, love your car, don't hate on the brand(ing)...
Seems like you're foaming more than the "///M guys" about this.

A question for you: if I go to bmwusa.com or to global bmw.com site, how come they separate the 3-series and M cars, and the M340i is not under the "M" link?
Apparently you're not clicking in far enough when you're on the BMW USA website 'build your vehicle' option, because the writing on the wall is clearly right there:
Quote:
Originally Posted by nicky dj View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by drF80 View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by nicky dj View Post

My argument is does the new M340i that's developed by the M division (which is apparently the main caveat for the ///M fanboys) with M division parts, sacrilegious to to have the M badge on its end when BMW GmbH themselves say so?

No one ever on the thread questioned that it's the premium M version. Its just funny to see /// M guys so offended because their car is getting watered down, what else could it be? Any real BMW person knows what's the premium car.

Is an Audi S5 which is the original Audi sport car now a less of a car even though the more recently developed RS5 line is the premium sport line of Audi? Who cares, don't get OFFENDED, love your car, don't hate on the brand(ing)...
Seems like you're foaming more than the "///M guys" about this.

A question for you: if I go to bmwusa.com or to global bmw.com site, how come they separate the 3-series and M cars, and the M340i is not under the "M" link?
Apparently you're not clicking in far enough when you're on the BMW USA website 'build your vehicle' option, because the writing on the wall is clearly right there:
Where's the "M"340i in the range of Ms listed on the bmw m website?
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      01-20-2020, 11:15 AM   #678
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bm4w View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by nicky dj View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by drF80 View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by nicky dj View Post

My argument is does the new M340i that's developed by the M division (which is apparently the main caveat for the ///M fanboys) with M division parts, sacrilegious to to have the M badge on its end when BMW GmbH themselves say so?

No one ever on the thread questioned that it's the premium M version. Its just funny to see /// M guys so offended because their car is getting watered down, what else could it be? Any real BMW person knows what's the premium car.

Is an Audi S5 which is the original Audi sport car now a less of a car even though the more recently developed RS5 line is the premium sport line of Audi? Who cares, don't get OFFENDED, love your car, don't hate on the brand(ing)...
Seems like you're foaming more than the "///M guys" about this.

A question for you: if I go to bmwusa.com or to global bmw.com site, how come they separate the 3-series and M cars, and the M340i is not under the "M" link?
Apparently you're not clicking in far enough when you're on the BMW USA website 'build your vehicle' option, because the writing on the wall is clearly right there:
Quote:
Originally Posted by nicky dj View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by drF80 View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by nicky dj View Post

My argument is does the new M340i that's developed by the M division (which is apparently the main caveat for the ///M fanboys) with M division parts, sacrilegious to to have the M badge on its end when BMW GmbH themselves say so?

No one ever on the thread questioned that it's the premium M version. Its just funny to see /// M guys so offended because their car is getting watered down, what else could it be? Any real BMW person knows what's the premium car.

Is an Audi S5 which is the original Audi sport car now a less of a car even though the more recently developed RS5 line is the premium sport line of Audi? Who cares, don't get OFFENDED, love your car, don't hate on the brand(ing)...
Seems like you're foaming more than the "///M guys" about this.

A question for you: if I go to bmwusa.com or to global bmw.com site, how come they separate the 3-series and M cars, and the M340i is not under the "M" link?
Apparently you're not clicking in far enough when you're on the BMW USA website 'build your vehicle' option, because the writing on the wall is clearly right there:
Where's the "M"340i in the range of Ms listed on the bmw m website?
I'm not sure, you may want to contact them and tell BMW USA they're missing a car from their website but all the other ones are there - M550i, X6M50i, etc.
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      01-20-2020, 11:15 AM   #679
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheBingoBalls View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bumpinjeep View Post
The fact that this thread even exists is a testament to the marketing team at BMW. Take a volume seller/service loaner, throw some stickers on it, and bam, you got people believing they have something truly special. The same thing happened to Mercedes when the C450 magically changed to the C43 the next year. I get it, imitation is the best form of flattery, but come on BMW, you can do better than Mercedes and Audi.
To be honest, I think BMW does it better than Mercedes in terms of branding and differentiating M/AMG. Sure, someone could mistaken a M340i for a M3 or M car, but I think many would actually believe that a C43 is an AMG because of how similar the naming is to the actual 63 AMG.
Quote:
Originally Posted by nicky dj View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by drF80 View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by nicky dj View Post

My argument is does the new M340i that's developed by the M division (which is apparently the main caveat for the ///M fanboys) with M division parts, sacrilegious to to have the M badge on its end when BMW GmbH themselves say so?

No one ever on the thread questioned that it's the premium M version. Its just funny to see /// M guys so offended because their car is getting watered down, what else could it be? Any real BMW person knows what's the premium car.

Is an Audi S5 which is the original Audi sport car now a less of a car even though the more recently developed RS5 line is the premium sport line of Audi? Who cares, don't get OFFENDED, love your car, don't hate on the brand(ing)...
Seems like you're foaming more than the "///M guys" about this.

A question for you: if I go to bmwusa.com or to global bmw.com site, how come they separate the 3-series and M cars, and the M340i is not under the "M" link?
Apparently you're not clicking in far enough when you're on the BMW USA website 'build your vehicle' option, because the writing on the wall is clearly right there:
True, Mercedes does it worse. The M340i and C43 owners are probably the same ones who would say "My M car" or "My AMG" when talking to others about it instead of actually saying the model LOL.

I have seen plenty of those at car meets already but it is what it is. I honestly don't care, it just makes me laugh hysterically on the inside.
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      01-20-2020, 11:23 AM   #680
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bm4w View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheBingoBalls View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bumpinjeep View Post
The fact that this thread even exists is a testament to the marketing team at BMW. Take a volume seller/service loaner, throw some stickers on it, and bam, you got people believing they have something truly special. The same thing happened to Mercedes when the C450 magically changed to the C43 the next year. I get it, imitation is the best form of flattery, but come on BMW, you can do better than Mercedes and Audi.
To be honest, I think BMW does it better than Mercedes in terms of branding and differentiating M/AMG. Sure, someone could mistaken a M340i for a M3 or M car, but I think many would actually believe that a C43 is an AMG because of how similar the naming is to the actual 63 AMG.
Quote:
Originally Posted by nicky dj View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by drF80 View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by nicky dj View Post

My argument is does the new M340i that's developed by the M division (which is apparently the main caveat for the ///M fanboys) with M division parts, sacrilegious to to have the M badge on its end when BMW GmbH themselves say so?

No one ever on the thread questioned that it's the premium M version. Its just funny to see /// M guys so offended because their car is getting watered down, what else could it be? Any real BMW person knows what's the premium car.

Is an Audi S5 which is the original Audi sport car now a less of a car even though the more recently developed RS5 line is the premium sport line of Audi? Who cares, don't get OFFENDED, love your car, don't hate on the brand(ing)...
Seems like you're foaming more than the "///M guys" about this.

A question for you: if I go to bmwusa.com or to global bmw.com site, how come they separate the 3-series and M cars, and the M340i is not under the "M" link?
Apparently you're not clicking in far enough when you're on the BMW USA website 'build your vehicle' option, because the writing on the wall is clearly right there:
True, Mercedes does it worse. The M340i and C43 owners are probably the same ones who would say "My M car" or "My AMG" when talking to others about it instead of actually saying the model LOL.

I have seen plenty of those at car meets already but it is what it is. I honestly don't care, it just makes me laugh hysterically on the inside.
But here's the thing - I actually don't think any knowledgeable M340i or C43 say they have a M or just an AMG. They know what car they specifically bought, it's just in the heads of insecure ///M owners that perceive that.

So I met a BMW M340i owner the other day because the conversation started with cars in general, when he said "I own a BMW too, I said oh cool, what model?" He specifically stated "I own a M340i". In which I replied "badass car man". I'm sure I'd get the same from a knowledgeable C43 owner stating what their car is in entirety.
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      01-20-2020, 11:29 AM   #681
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BMW did this to themselves; everyone knows it...

Now it just becomes increasingly difficult to explain how your M car is real vs the others is not... only way to fix this is not to buy BMWs; albeit Benz and Audi are up to the same thing. Nothing is special anymore; we live in a world of mass consumption... sad? Extremely but that's how it is. I wish I was 15 years older so that I could have picked up a 2005 Comp Pack E46 M3 with a manual tranny when it was an extremely special car back in late 2004.
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      01-20-2020, 11:45 AM   #682
nicky dj
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dezzracer View Post
I don't think this thread turned into an argument. I think debate is a better word and considering its 31 pages apparently it's a lively debate . Nor do I think full on M owners are feeling superior or are butt hurt as a few have said. I appreciate all BMW models old and new. . I like the brand and what it stands for and M is a strong sub brand of BMW. I agree it should be reserved for the full on M cars. I would say BMW made a mistake in whoring "M" out across its entire line except for the fact that they had record sales this year. From that angle I guess they know what they are doing.

I admit that an M340 X drive with a tune and a few bits added would be a better and more sensible choice for me. It's a hell of a car and I may own one down the road.. But I'm in a M3 CS right now because after 60 years I finally got to a place in my life I could afford one. It was a gift to myself. Its different and unique and special and stirs my emotions. Which is how most car enthusiasts choose a car. As long as it does that it's all good.
I agree. I know real M owners a few that are my close friends, as well as ones at car meets who understand the engineering of cars, know the potential of M340i, they just know they have the better and pinnacle M

At the same time these real M owners laud the B58, which is just as impressive as the S55 on an engineering level and I don't think ///M fanboys realize that.

3 years ago I used to be one of the guys that held the letter M sacred as well (and still am in some regard) "no stamping, no 'M' Performance add-ons or upgrade packages, no M trim levels, etc." Until I got to track test an M340i and I was blown away by its performance. I ripped it around the course trying to rip the damn tires off the wheels, and when I parked tires smoking adrenaline pulsing, I looked over to the BMW driving instructor right next to me and said 'wow this car is worthy!' To which he smiled and laughed 'I whole heartedly agree!'

If you haven't driven the M340i or a Supra GR, I encourage you to go out and test drive one, but really rip it in sport+ mode. It might change your opinion as well and might give you an insight feel for the next G80 M3.
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