[Poochie]

Originally Posted by dmboone25

Try a 235 out - that is an accurate description of the respective handling abilities.

I had one for ~17 or 18 months, and it remains the worst BMW I have owned (I am on #7 now, 12 total in the family.

To borrow your analogy - human and chimp DPA is what, 99% the same...are you similar to a chimp? I know I'm not....

so...I guess the "shared parts" argument doesn't hold a lot of water. Or to use your point of reference even more specifically, I would hazard a guess that a 235 shares parts with the 2 series minivan too. I wonder if the minivan is the ultimate driving or squishy machine? I am not sure that comparison is something you really want to hang your hat on.

I saw your old review on the 235i, it seems like you started out with good intentions but I guess it didn't live up to your expectations, seeing that you classified it as your worst BMW experience. Ouch.

I figure that the regular 2 series just the conservative version of the M2, which has a demographic that prefers that but the way you make it sound, it must handle like a boat on choppy waters.

I drove all makes and models of BMWs loaner cars, from a 228 to a 550i and I never felt like any of them lacked in handling. Sure, you might not be able to track them but that never was the intention and they can certainly could hold their own on the public streets.

Me personally, I like the prestige of a M car but I'm not really feeling the directions of were they're heading. Those loud burbles and flashy styling is making them look kind of juvenile.

I don't want to be driving a vehicle where people are looking at me like I'm that guy, kind of the like the first time I saw a 40-something man in a Lancer Evolution MR and thought it was his one of his kid's vehicle or something. So in a way, I'm happy there are others options beside hardcore M car variants. They still has a thriving market and audience, squishy or otherwise.

[Ceramic Rabbit]

Originally Posted by Poochie

I saw your old review on the 235i, it seems like you started out with good intentions but I guess it didn't live up to your expectations, seeing that you classified it as your worst BMW experience. Ouch.

I figure that the regular 2 series just the pedestrian version of the M2, which has a demographic that prefers that but the way you make it sound, it must handle like a boat on choppy waters.

I drove all makes and models of BMWs loaner cars, from a 228 to a 550i and I never felt like any of them lacked in handling. Sure, you might not be able to track them but that never was the intention and they can certainly could hold their own on the public streets.

Me personally, I like the prestige of a M car but I'm not really feeling the directions of we're they're heading. Those loud burbles and flashy styling is making them look kind of juvenile.

I don't want to be driving a vehicle where people are looking at me like I'm that guy, kind of the like the first time I saw a 40-something man in a Lancer Evolution 9 and thought it was his one of his kid's vehicle or something. So in a way, I'm happy there are others options beside hardcore M car variants. They still have a market and and audience, squishy or otherwise.

Don't worry about being that guy, just do what you want

[KeepItlow]

Had an opportunity to drive the M140i/M240i and M3/M4 on track during a BMW Driving Experience Day.

Straight line the M240i was great, but the handling was night and day compared to M2. The chassis and suspension setup on the M240i wasn't up to task, meaning the car floats around in corners and didn't feel good at all.

Surprisingly though the M140i felt a lot better than the M240i!

[Ceramic Rabbit]

Originally Posted by KeepItlow

Had an opportunity to drive the M140i/M240i and M3/M4 on track during a BMW Driving Experience Day.

Straight line the M240i was great, but the handling was night and day compared to M2. The chassis and suspension setup on the M240i wasn't up to task, meaning the car floats around in corners and didn't feel good at all.

Surprisingly though the M140i felt a lot better than the M240i!

Honestly I don't think there's anything wrong with the way even the base 230 handles. Its obviously not a sports car it's a sporty luxury car but people on this forum are being way too harsh.

[dmboone25]

Originally Posted by Poochie

I saw your old review on the 235i, it seems like you started out with good intentions but I guess it didn't live up to your expectations, seeing that you classified it as your worst BMW experience. Ouch.

I figure that the regular 2 series just the conservative version of the M2, which has a demographic that prefers that but the way you make it sound, it must handle like a boat on choppy waters.

I drove all makes and models of BMWs loaner cars, from a 228 to a 550i and I never felt like any of them lacked in handling. Sure, you might not be able to track them but that never was the intention and they can certainly could hold their own on the public streets.

Me personally, I like the prestige of a M car but I'm not really feeling the directions of were they're heading. Those loud burbles and flashy styling is making them look kind of juvenile.

I don't want to be driving a vehicle where people are looking at me like I'm that guy, kind of the like the first time I saw a 40-something man in a Lancer Evolution MR and thought it was his one of his kid's vehicle or something. So in a way, I'm happy there are others options beside hardcore M car variants. They still has a thriving market and audience, squishy or otherwise.

If you read my numerous takes on the 235, then you know that I apportion the majority of the blame on myself - I bought into the BMW marketing hype that the car was a replacement for the 1M. Which it just isn't...

I had 2 135s prior to the 235, and they were both better in significant ways, again, but for the styling improvements that they made from the E82 --> 2er. It had an updated interior...but that was about it. I truly disliked that car, and it caused me to leave the brand.

Do you think the M2 is flashy? Or the F80? I don't think so...and as someone else pointed out, who gives a shit? People will think what they want about you, based upon several factors. I would rather just drive what makes me happy - but I can understand if you aren't on board with where M is going. I am not happy about the direction in certain circumstances either (moving away from a DCT, a more synthesized experience generally, etc.)

[dmboone25]

Originally Posted by Ceramic Rabbit

I drove the cars back to back on track at the BMW Performance Driving school and while the m240 is obviously the better value on paper, even if the performance is exactly the same the feel and attitude of the cars are totally different.

Getting in and starting the M2 feels fucking awesome like you are starting something badass, powerful, and dangerous. Starting the m240 feels tame and normal in comparison.

There is just so much more to the experience than performance figures, and when you consider those intangibles the M2 is probably the best value car you can buy

You are describing my biggest gripe with the M performance line - why do these cars even have an association with "the real thing"? It's just so dumb...

And BMW is convincing people or at least letting them believe that they have a real M when they get one of the M performance vehicles...there's a guy in my office who knows I have an M3 and am generally a BMW guy - he comes to me recently ans says, "hey man, guess what? I just got an X3M!" - I was really excited for him for a split second, because I think the X3M is going to do really well...except, you can't buy the X3M yet and he got a X340i...

I didn't have the heart to tell him the reality of his situation.

To your point....there IS a difference, and a big one. I have no problem acknowledging that the 235/240 presents a positive value proposition for BMW. They just shouldn't be compared to something they're not.

[.2pdk]

Originally Posted by dmboone25

And BMW is convincing people or at least letting them believe that they have a real M when they get one of the M performance vehicles...there's a guy in my office who knows I have an M3 and am generally a BMW guy - he comes to me recently ans says, "hey man, guess what? I just got an X3M!" - I was really excited for him for a split second, because I think the X3M is going to do really well...except, you can't buy the X3M yet and he got a X340i...

I didn't have the heart to tell him the reality of his situation.

Those sneaky Germans really have a knack for this...

[heavyD^2]

It's telling that the M240i is in a dead heat with the OG M2 in a straight line but a staggering 6.1 seconds slower around the VIR.

https://www.caranddriver.com/feature...-2016-feature/

https://www.caranddriver.com/feature...-2017-feature/

[HPIA4v2]

Originally Posted by .2pdk

Those sneaky Germans really have a knack for this...

But wait, I thought the M2 LCI engine doesn't have denomination Sxx like the rest of "REAL" M cars.




In seriousness, BMWAG is too blame, for sticking M badges everywhere nowadays. But so does Benz and Audi for that matter.

[Moflow]

Originally Posted by HPIA4v2

But wait, I thought the M2 LCI engine doesn't have denomination Sxx like the rest of "REAL" M cars.




In seriousness, BMWAG is too blame, for sticking M badges everywhere nowadays. But so does Benz and Audi for that matter.

The first minute and a half of this video is relevant to the conversation

[Poochie]

Originally Posted by dmboone25

...there's a guy in my office who knows I have an M3 and am generally a BMW guy - he comes to me recently ans says, "hey man, guess what? I just got an X3M!" - I was really excited for him for a split second, because I think the X3M is going to do really well...except, you can't buy the X3M yet and he got a X340i...

I didn't have the heart to tell him the reality of his situation.

That's funny but in his defense the person that actually purchases a real X3M will probably think they bought the "M Performance" version because they can't differentiate the two variants. They purchased it based on the price; 'Cost more, so it must be better.'

On the bright side, at lease now there is a BMW for everyone now, few years ago there were only 3,5,7 and X. Everyone can be an 'M car' owner now.

[alan7467]

Since putting in my order for a 2020 M2C on 03/11 I've had three different people ask me why I didn't just get the M240i with xdrive. I've been told it's just as good for a lot less $$$. I've also seen several videos pop-up online lately stating the same. So it certainly looks like the hype machine is working.

Honestly, I haven't driven one, and don't care to. I much prefer the styling and want the RWD of the M2. Now if people could just stop telling me what's best for ME that'd be great

[.2pdk]

Originally Posted by HPIA4v2

But wait, I thought the M2 LCI engine doesn't have denomination Sxx like the rest of "REAL" M cars.




In seriousness, BMWAG is too blame, for sticking M badges everywhere nowadays. But so does Benz and Audi for that matter.

Did you just call me a fool?

[ChrisK]

Originally Posted by dmboone25

You are describing my biggest gripe with the M performance line - why do these cars even have an association with "the real thing"? It's just so dumb...

And BMW is convincing people or at least letting them believe that they have a real M when they get one of the M performance vehicles...there's a guy in my office who knows I have an M3 and am generally a BMW guy - he comes to me recently ans says, "hey man, guess what? I just got an X3M!" - I was really excited for him for a split second, because I think the X3M is going to do really well...except, you can't buy the X3M yet and he got a X340i...

I didn't have the heart to tell him the reality of his situation.

To your point....there IS a difference, and a big one. I have no problem acknowledging that the 235/240 presents a positive value proposition for BMW. They just shouldn't be compared to something they're not.

I totally agreed. I've been complaining about BMW watering down the M badge with these Mxxxx vehicles since they started this nonsense.

[Soulmate]

Originally Posted by alan7467

...why I didn't just get the M240i with xdrive. I've been told it's just as good for a lot less $$$.

After my e46 M3 SMG was trashed, I was going to "settle" for the M240ix, because old now...

Fate (or the ghost of my M3 past) intervened, the deal fell through, and my M2C was acquired. Night and day.

When I test drove the M240ix on the "dealer loop", the SA asked me if I wanted to take it around a 2nd time, and I declined, because it was just a car. The M2C just feels so much different, it cannot be described, it can only be experienced.

[chris719]

Originally Posted by Soulmate

After my e46 M3 SMG was trashed, I was going to "settle" for the M240ix, because old now...

Fate (or the ghost of my M3 past) intervened, the deal fell through, and my M2C was acquired. Night and day.

When I test drove the M240ix on the "dealer loop", the SA asked me if I wanted to take it around a 2nd time, and I declined, because it was just a car. The M2C just feels so much different, it cannot be described, it can only be experienced.

Yes, IMO if you aren't going to get an M car, you might as well get an Accord or something more reliable and practical.

What makes the car special and exciting is not the engine output, but the feel, feedback, and handling performance. By most accounts, the regular cars don't deliver on that.

[.2pdk]

Originally Posted by chris719

What makes the car special and exciting is not the engine output, but the feel, feedback, and handling performance. By most accounts, the regular cars don't deliver on that.

Well said.

M2 never fails to put a smile on my face.

[doughboy]

This is pointless. If I wanted good value I wouldnt buy any BMW let alone a 240i. But I'd rather buy top of the range bad value car than a mediocre bad value car.

For real value get a nice used Honda.

My £50 casio watch is way better value (and technicaly a far superior timepiece) than a £4000 Swiss automatic, but that isn't why I bought the Swiss watch.

[devo]

M cars should not be confused with BMWs with M packages, just as a 240 whatever... should not be confused with a M2C. Most of this thread ^ is pointless. The differences between these cars are immediately noticeable to any enthusiast on the street. A few hot laps on the track and the differences will be exploited. And, yes there are some BMWs with sloppy / spongy handling no matter what the BMW slogan is.

[fullstack]

*Sigh....Another comparison thread based on a video review on the internet. All i can say is... don’t buy a car based on the internet! I bought my 240 sight unseen. Not one review told the full truth. The car is small and sporty but in reality, all you feel is the weight... and you feel it in the two right pedals. I feel that the sleeper argument doesn’t work in real life, the car looks small and dainty. It’s a look that’s acceptible if the car was actually light like a miata. If the 240 and m2/m2c were sitting available for purchase side by side on the showroom floor with only a 10k difference on the sticker and similar lease rates, nobody would buy the 240. Ever. Its a great little car but it’s not a special car. Cars this size only appeal to enthusiasts. The 240 would be a lot more appealing if it came with the lsd instead of the adaptive suspension and an option for lightweight manual cloth seats.

[Poochie]

According to the folks here; the 235/240 is squishy and sloppy, which handles like a 1985 Buick, with blown out shocks but apparently its the reason the M2/M2C is here today.

The 235i was a experiment to test the market demand of a similar profile of vehicle, which succeeded.

The M2, M2C and the upcoming M2CS is a natural progression of this niche model of vehicle.


https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.for...-frohlich/amp/

[chris719]

A valid question is, if you put Ohlins and some other tweaks on an M240i how close do you get to an M2. You won't get the aluminum chassis bits, but you probably can get rid of the body roll.