[Tag]

<rant>

Came across this video browsing YouTube. WTF is this shit? This is the icing on the cake for me as to the direction the company is going. Yes, there have been warning signs for a while now, but I've been in denial. Part of me always thought the regular line up of their cars would be the watered down, trendy, gimmick laden models while the M cars were the ones they wouldn't dare mess with. Enter the fugly huge grilles, M cars growing larger in size than ever before with the G8x being nearly 5" longer than the already long F8x. Weight no longer being a primary consideration; the G8x are bloated pigs weighing in anywhere from 400-500lbs more depending on model trim. I can go on, but I think you get the big fat ugly point.

Maybe the G87 will be an outlier and worthy successor to the F87. It reportedly will only be offered as a RWD model and will get a MT, but the DCT will be replaced with a ZF slushbox (can't win 'em all). I wouldn't be surprised however if it's a lot larger, heavier and uglier than the F87. After 20yrs of owning BMW's the M2 was the only reason I stuck with the brand. If they F up the G87 (I fully expect them to) like they did with the G80/2 I'm out.



</rant>

P.S. Happy New Year

[DanG]

I am hoping I can keep my M2 for 10 years or so. It has been modded to perfectly fit me. Who knows if you will even be able to buy a gas powered car in 2028. But I also hate how BMWs have been growing. I bought my M2 as a replacement for my E46 M3 because the M3/4 was too big. I don’t think BMW is still trying to be “The Ultimate Driving Machine”.

[SEAT TIME RULES]

Originally Posted by Tag

<rant>

The Supra weighs in at 3372 lbs. The G87 platform will use the Z4/Supra chassis. Our F87 weighs in at around 3550 with a 6-speed. I don't see it gaining much weight at all going forward.

[doughboy]

As the 2 years go on I grow fonder of the M2C, it's still got OBD tuning access, I'm busy modding it subly to suit me. It really is a cracker.

6MT too. Basic spec.

I can't see me ever buying a new car like this again, I'll go older and more basic from now on for my own cars. I'll never be able to comfortably afford a 911 GT3 so modded up M2C will have to do.

New cars for me will just be disposable SUV type junk from now on. You can see what's happening with new DMEs being completely locked down and OTA options / forced updates etc.

Unfortunately most M buyers buy for looks and prestige not driving performance, so BMW now cater for them. Big wheels, big brakes, big lux options, comfy autobox, big weight.

Happy New Year to you all xx 👍

[Tag]

Originally Posted by SEAT TIME RULES

The Supra weighs in at 3372 lbs. The G87 platform will use the Z4/Supra chassis. Our F87 weighs in at around 3550 with a 6-speed. I don't see it gaining much weight at all going forward.

I wish that were the case. Yes, it will be on the same CLAR platform, but that platform is flexible and used for most newer modes ranging from the current 3 all the way up to the 8 Series. The CLAR platform is also what the new huge and bloated G80/2 is built on. The G87 will not have the same chassis layout as the Supra or Z4 as those are both two seaters while the G42/87 will be 4 seater coupes.

[BigKutta]

Originally Posted by doughboy

As the 2 years go on I grow fonder of the M2C, it's still got OBD tuning access, I'm busy modding it subly to suit me. It really is a cracker.

6MT too. Basic spec.

I can't see me ever buying a new car like this again, I'll go older and more basic from now on for my own cars. I'll never be able to comfortably afford a 911 GT3 so modded up M2C will have to do.

New cars for me will just be disposable SUV type junk from now on. You can see what's happening with new DMEs being completely locked down and OTA options / forced updates etc.

Unfortunately most M buyers buy for looks and prestige not driving performance, so BMW now cater for them. Big wheels, big brakes, big lux options, comfy autobox, big weight.

Happy New Year to you all xx 👍

This is all so true! Hopefully BMW will keep folks like us happy for a bit longer?

[TargaM2]

Originally Posted by doughboy

As the 2 years go on I grow fonder of the M2C, it's still got OBD tuning access, I'm busy modding it subly to suit me. It really is a cracker.

6MT too. Basic spec.

I can't see me ever buying a new car like this again, I'll go older and more basic from now on for my own cars. I'll never be able to comfortably afford a 911 GT3 so modded up M2C will have to do.

New cars for me will just be disposable SUV type junk from now on. You can see what's happening with new DMEs being completely locked down and OTA options / forced updates etc.

Unfortunately most M buyers buy for looks and prestige not driving performance, so BMW now cater for them. Big wheels, big brakes, big lux options, comfy autobox, big weight.

Happy New Year to you all xx 👍

Totally agree, you don't even have to go to other sites/brands to see how the buyer demographic mentality/requirements change from enthusiasts to posers.
Go to the M3/4 forum & you see more of the spotlight hero mentality that care little about driving dynamics & are all about 0-60 times & hp numbers.
Go to the M5 forum & those guys have absolutely no clue as to what an M car is, all they seem to be about is dollars & paper numbers.
I've gone no further up the M-barge scale as I'm scared what I might find.
In all honesty the M2 forums are the only on this site that seem to have any semblance of real performance knowledge & that's pretty limited at times also.

[BigKutta]

Originally Posted by TargaM2

Totally agree, you don't even have to go to other sites/brands to see how the buyer demographic mentality/requirements change from enthusiasts to posers.
Go to the M3/4 forum & you see more of the spotlight hero mentality that care little about driving dynamics & are all about 0-60 times & hp numbers.
Go to the M5 forum & those guys have absolutely no clue as to what an M car is, all they seem to be about is dollars & paper numbers.
I've gone no further up the M-barge scale as I'm scared what I might find.
In all honesty the M2 forums are the only on this site that seem to have any semblance of real performance knowledge & that's pretty limited at times also.

One of the longest threads on the M5 forum is pictures of their watches!

[DanG]

Originally Posted by BigKutta

One of the longest threads on the M5 forum is pictures of their watches!

That is pretty funny.

[W///]

I think this is overblown. Keep in mind, the F generation M2/3/4 cars were a far bigger departure from the E generation cars, and people thought that was going to be the end of the world. Yet here we are at the end of their lifecycle praising about how good these cars. These F generation cars were released when BMW was also pumping out 2er Active Tourers and 3/5/6 GT's. Market trend huh?

Personally, I have really high hopes for the G87. I think it's hard to argue that the steering feel/handling won't be better than the F generation cars (look at F10 M5 to F90 M5, or just base F series to G series). I do agree that there's a good chance the weight will go up even on the G87, but it's not like the F87 is a featherweight to begin with. I also don't think it's fair to compare how big the G8x has gotten. That's just the result of the G20 being an E39 sized vehicle, while we have no idea what the 2 series will be like.

With as good as the F87CS is, I think the G87 is really something to look forward, especially if it'll be the last 6MT car BMW M offers. I'm also considering an F97LCI as replacement to my DD (a Tundra) if something happens to it. I dare someone to call me a poser and not an enthusiast when I'm spending my Christmas break replacing rod bearings on my Z4M

P.S. I've browsed the F90 forums. There are so many that have been M owners since the E30/E36 M3 days.

[Moflow]

I have no loyalty to the brand and absolutely no plans to get a G87 no matter how good it is. But that said, the G87 looks like it’ll be just fine by all indications.

1. Spy shots appear to show a pretty small car
2. Still available with a manual
3. No AWD
4. Most rumors are saying it’ll have an S engine from the get go
5. No indication it’ll wear the new M grille.

Weight is a possible concern but it’s not exactly like our F87s are light either. I feel as though the F87 was already the “exception” in the BMW lineup, as the one car that really kinda “got it.” Until it actually comes out and proves me wrong, I’m just going to assume the next Gen M2 will occupy that same niche.

[W///]

Originally Posted by Moflow

I have no loyalty to the brand and absolutely no plans to get a G87 no matter how good it is. But that said, the G87 looks like it’ll be just fine by all indications.

1. Spy shots appear to show a pretty small car
2. Still available with a manual
3. No AWD
4. Most rumors are saying it’ll have an S engine from the get go
5. No indication it’ll wear the new M grille.

Weight is a possible concern but it’s not exactly like our F87s are light either. I feel as though the F87 was already the “exception” in the BMW lineup, as the one car that really kinda “got it.” Until it actually comes out and proves me wrong, I’m just going to assume the next Gen M2 will occupy that same niche.

Matches exactly what I said right above you

[infinitekidM2C]

The only light at the end of the tunnel is a potential for electronic lightweight sportscars. No more exhaust noises, but you can still enjoy the driving experiences. So more Fzero and less GTA.

[Sphygmomanometer]

Welcome to the Instagram-age. BMW has long gone from selling cars to selling a particular lifestyle. It's not only BMW to be fair but it seems like BMW is bending over backwards more than any other comparable manufacturer to go that way. Albert Biermann said that BMW M stood for BMW Motorsport when he was working there but now it stands for BMW Marketing and one can see where he's coming from.

I'm not saying we won't be able to have fun with cars anymore but it's probably becoming more and more difficult to have fun with the sort of cars we have grown to love over the past decades.

[JustinHEMI]

Originally Posted by Tag

<rant>

Came across this video browsing YouTube. WTF is this shit? This is the icing on the cake for me as to the direction the company is going. Yes, there have been warning signs for a while now, but I've been in denial. Part of me always thought the regular line up of their cars would be the watered down, trendy, gimmick laden models while the M cars were the ones they wouldn't dare mess with. Enter the fugly huge grilles, M cars growing larger in size than ever before with the G8x being nearly 5" longer than the already long F8x. Weight no longer being a primary consideration; the G8x are bloated pigs weighing in anywhere from 400-500lbs more depending on model trim. I can go on, but I think you get the big fat ugly point.

Maybe the G87 will be an outlier and worthy successor to the F87. It reportedly will only be offered as a RWD model and will get a MT, but the DCT will be replaced with a ZF slushbox (can't win 'em all). I wouldn't be surprised however if it's a lot larger, heavier and uglier than the F87. After 20yrs of owning BMW's the M2 was the only reason I stuck with the brand. If they F up the G87 (I fully expect them to) like they did with the G80/2 I'm out.



</rant>

P.S. Happy New Year

With everything I've seen so far, I'm so happy I bought my F87 when I did. Looks to be a keeper as one of the last great M cars. Hope to be surprised with G87.

[SEAT TIME RULES]

Originally Posted by infinitekidM2C

The only light at the end of the tunnel is a potential for electronic lightweight sportscars. No more exhaust noises, but you can still enjoy the driving experiences. So more Fzero and less GTA.

Now that's a pipe dream at this time.

I don't see mass produced sports cars being fully electric, being lightweight and lasting more than a few laps before their battery packs over heat. ( as of current tech)

I'll add that I personally will never own, test drive, or even instruct in a fully electric car.

They just suck....

Just my .02

[SEAT TIME RULES]

Originally Posted by Sphygmomanometer

Welcome to the Instagram-age. BMW has long gone from selling cars to selling a particular lifestyle. It's not only BMW to be fair but it seems like BMW is bending over backwards more than any other comparable manufacturer to go that way. Albert Biermann said that BMW M stood for BMW Motorsport when he was working there but now it stands for BMW Marketing and one can see where he's coming from.

I'm not saying we won't be able to have fun with cars anymore but it's probably becoming more and more difficult to have fun with the sort of cars we have grown to love over the past decades.

I 100% agree with this....

I was calling out the M Brand Manager ( Larry Koch) back in 2004 about this very point.

M has been for marketing for over 20 years now. Their CF bits & other aftermarket items are wicked overpriced, and the cars are being purchased by many who will never go near an autocross or HPDE.

[Moflow]

Originally Posted by SEAT TIME RULES

Now that's a pipe dream at this time.

I don't see mass produced sports cars being fully electric, being lightweight and lasting more than a few laps before their battery packs over heat. ( as of current tech)

I'll add that I personally will never own, test drive, or even instruct in a fully electric car.

They just suck....

Just my .02

Ever driven an electric kart? They can be pretty fun. The potential is there imho, but it’s very much just potential at this point when we are talking full sized vehicles.

[ChrisK]

Originally Posted by Tag

<rant>

Came across this video browsing YouTube. WTF is this shit? This is the icing on the cake for me as to the direction the company is going. Yes, there have been warning signs for a while now, but I've been in denial. Part of me always thought the regular line up of their cars would be the watered down, trendy, gimmick laden models while the M cars were the ones they wouldn't dare mess with. Enter the fugly huge grilles, M cars growing larger in size than ever before with the G8x being nearly 5" longer than the already long F8x. Weight no longer being a primary consideration; the G8x are bloated pigs weighing in anywhere from 400-500lbs more depending on model trim. I can go on, but I think you get the big fat ugly point.

Maybe the G87 will be an outlier and worthy successor to the F87. It reportedly will only be offered as a RWD model and will get a MT, but the DCT will be replaced with a ZF slushbox (can't win 'em all). I wouldn't be surprised however if it's a lot larger, heavier and uglier than the F87. After 20yrs of owning BMW's the M2 was the only reason I stuck with the brand. If they F up the G87 (I fully expect them to) like they did with the G80/2 I'm out.



</rant>

P.S. Happy New Year

Don't forget the other big kick in the nuts -> It will be made in Mexico, not Germany.

No offense to Mexico.

[fullstack]

Also, the steering feel and exhaust notes have been going downhill for a while now. BMW seems to be going towards large comfortable touring cars that are fast on the freeway. How many 120K+ cars do they need to see sitting on lots before they realize they need to go back to the basics?

[///Magic Bus]

Don't dream too much, friends... The final countdown has begun for our M cars.
For a few years, european car manufacturers will temporize with hybrid and smaller engines (like AMG switching from V8 to hybrid L4), but UE is about to prohibit selling nothing else that 100% electric brand new cars in 2035 and 2030 in UK (you should have stayed in UE guys ).
In France, we'll pay in 2021 an outrageous immatriculation tax (called "ecologic malus") : 21 771 € for DCT M2C, 30 000 € for 6MT M2C, all M3 or M4, 40 000 € in 2022 and 50 000 € in 2023 ! Icing on the cake, a new weight tax will be introduced in 2022 (10 €/kg over 1 800 kg, except for electric or hybrid cars).
In Europe, I'm afraid that the end of pistons engine is now in progress.
Regarding the increase of the weight of the M cars, it's fully intentional for BMW. The estimated penalties to pay for 2020 by european car constructors for exceeding fixed CO2 targets will amount 14 billion € (17 billion $) !!!
But this objective of reducing CO2 emissions is indexed to the weight of the cars : the heavier cars you sell, the more CO2 you can emit (regarding global CO2 emissions of new sold cars). That favor was granted to Angela Merkel in 2009, scaried by the incoming consequences of the new CO2 regulations for german automotive industry.
So you buy M cars with a lot of very expensive ultra light carbon parts on voluntarily weighted chassis !
Furthermore new EURO 7 stricter regulations are planned for 2025.
In addition, BMW has announced the end of production of thermical engines in his german plants, this production being relocated in Austria and UK. That's how much interest they will now take in them…
Maybe some of you aren't totally aware of what's going on in UE and I'm so sorry to break your dreams, but the only choice for you will soon be Mustang, Challenger, Corvette or Camaro, unless the new US President decides to follow the UE...
So enjoy your F87, I'm not absolutely sure that we ever will see the G87, anyway the one you dream...
For our part, we prepare ourselves to the cuban automotive way of life

[R0me]

No doubt sport cars in EU that has a high co2 and low mpg, will be more expensive to buy, but also roadtaxes will likely increase in most of EU. In my country of Denmark, the registration fee(150%), and roadtax will increase again next year.
My m2c stickerprice was an astounding 190k € from new but I have leased it instead and I pay 800€ in yearly roadtax.
And there aren't really any countries that want to make co2 pollution cars any cheaper.